Where's the ecumenical council in protestantism?

Jesusthekingofking

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The protestant will affirm the early few ecumenical council. but later, since they split so much among themselves, they have bishop/leader in their own denomination... then the followers of these leader fight with each other with different theological stands.

so it's like you can choose you can side which side with your own conscience but for the leaders, it's like 'I say this is truth and I believed it as this is what the bible says, here's my argument...' and each of them claim they're right...

since the truth isn't subjective but objective, there can't be 2 contradicting doctrines are both right.
 

ViaCrucis

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The question of ecumenical councils is going to depend on who you ask. Lutherans, Anglicans, Eastern Orthodox, and others accept the first seven ecumenical councils. Other Protestants, usually, at least accept the first four. The Oriental Orthodox accept the first three. Roman Catholicism accepts the highest number.

As a Lutheran I recognize the Second Council of Nicea as the seventh and last of the ecumenical councils of the Church. As such, there hasn't been an ecumenical councils since then, since we do not accept the authority of the later western councils as being ecumenical. Though Luther and many of the Evangelical Reformers wanted a council, they wanted a fair shake to present themselves and defend themselves in the context of a definitive church council--but that never materialized.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Arcangl86

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And while councils aren't a thing, in most older Protestant traditions confessions of faith are, and the whole reason they are seen as authoritative was because they were subscribed to by a large body of leaders. So the same sort of claim of universality exist in the Protestant world, it's just expressed differently.
 
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Jesusthekingofking

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Though Luther and many of the Evangelical Reformers wanted a council, they wanted a fair shake to present themselves and defend themselves in the context of a definitive church council--but that never materialized.

-CryptoLutheran
That's what I'm trying to say, the reformers can't have a council, they have way more disagreements than ever, that's why we have so many churches that teach different things in different denominations although we have the essential in common.
 
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Jesusthekingofking

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And while councils aren't a thing, in most older Protestant traditions confessions of faith are, and the whole reason they are seen as authoritative was because they were subscribed to by a large body of leaders. So the same sort of claim of universality exist in the Protestant world, it's just expressed differently.
Ya I agree to a certain extend, to see unity in protestant churches, each denomination somehow have to put down certain doctrine and unite for the sake of unity, which I think they will never be willing to do that. For example, you can't ask the calvinist to stop being calvinist, they will confront you with their 'truth' even if you resist it.
 
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Mark Quayle

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The protestant will affirm the early few ecumenical council. but later, since they split so much among themselves, they have bishop/leader in their own denomination... then the followers of these leader fight with each other with different theological stands.

so it's like you can choose you can side which side with your own conscience but for the leaders, it's like 'I say this is truth and I believed it as this is what the bible says, here's my argument...' and each of them claim they're right...

since the truth isn't subjective but objective, there can't be 2 contradicting doctrines are both right.
You might be surprised how many protestant denominations have no bishop/leader as such, and how many protestant churches claim no denomination at all.
 
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zippy2006

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Though Luther and many of the Evangelical Reformers wanted a council, they wanted a fair shake to present themselves and defend themselves in the context of a definitive church council--but that never materialized.

Sure it did, one year before Luther died. Given that Luther, in calling for a Council, apparently accepted Conciliar authority, is my guess right that he accepted more than the first seven?
 
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ViaCrucis

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That's what I'm trying to say, the reformers can't have a council, they have way more disagreements than ever, that's why we have so many churches that teach different things in different denominations although we have the essential in common.

Except that different Protestant traditions do have councils. They just aren't called ecumenical councils--because they aren't. But meetings of church leaders to address church matters are very much things that happen in Protestant churches.

Also, I guess I'm not seeing what the issue is. This isn't a "Protestant" thing either. That only certain councils are recognized as ecumenical is pretty common. The only tradition that continues to have "ecumenical councils" is Roman Catholicism--but these aren't recognized as such by anyone other than Roman Catholics.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Jesusthekingofking

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You might be surprised how many protestant denominations have no bishop/leader as such, and how many protestant churches claim no denomination at all.
No leader? Then who's preaching every Sunday? Their claim is false but in practice they do have leader.
 
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Albion

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The protestant will affirm the early few ecumenical council. but later, since they split so much among themselves, they have bishop/leader in their own denomination... then the followers of these leader fight with each other with different theological stands.

so it's like you can choose you can side which side with your own conscience but for the leaders, it's like 'I say this is truth and I believed it as this is what the bible says, here's my argument...' and each of them claim they're right...

since the truth isn't subjective but objective, there can't be 2 contradicting doctrines are both right.
But it's the same with with the various Catholic denominations. Unless there is some noticeable contrast, all you're doing is unloading on Protestant Christians for being no different from Catholics in this regard. ;)
 
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GreekOrthodox

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Sure it did, one year before Luther died. Given that Luther, in calling for a Council, apparently accepted Conciliar authority, is my guess right that he accepted more than the first seven?

I imagine that before he was excommunicated and the Diet of Worms, Luther would have accepted the Western Councils up until 1521. Council canons have been called into question by everyone. The Bishops of Rome never accepted parts of the Quinsext council and even the Seventh was not ratified by Rome for 100 years according to Wikipedia.

The papacy did not, however, formally confirm the decrees of the council till 880. In the West, the Frankish clergy initially rejected the Council at a synod in 794, and Charlemagne, then King of the Franks, supported the composition of the Libri Carolini in response, which repudiated the teachings of both the Council and the iconoclasts. A copy of the Libri was sent to Pope Hadrian, who responded with a refutation of the Frankish arguments.[8] The Libri would thereafter remain unpublished until the Reformation, and the Council is accepted as the Seventh Ecumenical Council by the Catholic Church.

The Lutheran view (I'm a former Lutheran LCMSer) would be that Councils can confirm what is taught in the Scriptures, but not make doctrine outside of them.
 
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Jesusthekingofking

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But it's the same with with the various Catholic denominations. Unless there is some noticeable contrast, all you're doing is unloading on Protestant Christians for being no different from Catholics in this regard. ;)
I thought catholic is one denomination only?
 
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Jesusthekingofking

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I imagine that before he was excommunicated and the Diet of Worms, Luther would have accepted the Western Councils up until 1521. Council canons have been called into question by everyone. The Bishops of Rome never accepted parts of the Quinsext council and even the Seventh was not ratified by Rome for 100 years according to Wikipedia.

The papacy did not, however, formally confirm the decrees of the council till 880. In the West, the Frankish clergy initially rejected the Council at a synod in 794, and Charlemagne, then King of the Franks, supported the composition of the Libri Carolini in response, which repudiated the teachings of both the Council and the iconoclasts. A copy of the Libri was sent to Pope Hadrian, who responded with a refutation of the Frankish arguments.[8] The Libri would thereafter remain unpublished until the Reformation, and the Council is accepted as the Seventh Ecumenical Council by the Catholic Church.

The Lutheran view (I'm a former Lutheran LCMSer) would be that Councils can confirm what is taught in the Scriptures, but not make doctrine outside of them.
how does the EO teach justification by faith? the scripture is clear for that on Roman and Galatians.
 
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Albion

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I thought catholic is one denomination only?
No, there are a number of denominations classified as Catholic (in contrast with the ones that are classified as Protestant). The basis for classifying a church as one or the other depends on a number of criteria, such as acceptance of Sola Scriptura vs. Tradition and Salvation by Faith Alone vs. Faith + Works.
 
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zippy2006

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I thought catholic is one denomination only?

Yes you are right. Albion is wrong. He loves to perpetuate this falsehood.

He thinks that because there is a group like the "Old Catholics" therefore Catholics include multiple denominations.
 
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Albion

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He thinks that because there is a group like the "Old Catholics" therefore Catholics include multiple denominations.

Well, there are...and you just identified one. So if you want to think that the Roman Catholic Church is the only Catholic Church, the Old Catholics are probably thinking that theirs are the genuine Catholic Churches, too; and the Eastern Orthodox, who have probably the best claim of anybody on the term Catholic, certainly do not consider that Rome is the only true church or the original one!!
 
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zippy2006

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Well, there are...and you just identified one. So if you want to think that the Roman Catholic Church is the only Catholic Church, the Old Catholics are probably thinking that theirs are the genuine Catholic Churches, too; and the Eastern Orthodox, who have probably the best claim of anybody on the term Catholic, certainly do not consider that Rome is the only true church or the original one!!

The Eastern Orthodox are Catholic; therefore the Catholic Church is divided (into multiple denominations). ^_^

These arguments are dismal. :doh: For starters, go look up the difference between a proper noun and a common noun.
 
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Albion

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The Eastern Orthodox are Catholic; therefore the Catholic Church is divided (into multiple denominations).

You're getting there.

Catholic and Protestant refer to general groupings of churches, made on the basis of belief and practice.
 
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zippy2006

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Catholic and Protestant refer to general groupings of churches, made on the basis of belief and practice.

No, no they don't.

For example, if a Catholic bishop or the Roman Pontiff excommunicates you, then you're not Catholic. It doesn't matter what your "beliefs and practices" look like. Another point: Anglicans walk and quack a bit like Catholics, but they aren't Catholic. Everyone knows this, including the OP. Even you know it when you're being honest with yourself. It's why you labeled yourself an Anglican rather than a Catholic.
 
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Albion

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For example, if a Catholic bishop or the Roman Pontiff excommunicates you, then you're not Catholic.
Such baloney. All you're saying is that the particular Catholic denomination in question has declared you not to be in communion. You are still considered by it to be under its jurisdiction. Didn't you know that? And in any case, all of this is nothing more than what that particular denomination likes to think about itself. The other ones think similarly about their supposed superiority and their own claims upon the idea of "One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic" Christianity. :sigh:
 
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