Where is the US going?

[Zoii]

It would appear that America is wanting to step back as a world leader by denouncing existing relationships. In the past four years, it has thrown out long-standing trade alliances, refused to sign any agreements recognising and managing climate change, has isolated countries such as Turkey (a country that has long been a strategic point for the USA), and stepped away from military alliances.

It has now formed closer alliances with Russia. It's attacking Asia and Europe with trade tariffs and has recently asserted its position along with Russia (and Sudan and Israel) as the only countries not to recognise the International Criminal Court...... today, in fact, it strongly denounced the capacity to bring to justice international crime.

Countries such as my own are recognising the shift in the American view towards its allies and its global role. Australia, for the first time, now instead operates international military operations with China. Australia has recognised China as a more stable trading partner with a responsible program around Carbon emissions, and less erratic foreign policy.

While Americans domestically may understand where they are heading, outside of America we are becoming increasingly bereft of what the USA is as an international entity. The appearance to those outside of USA is a country wanting to retreat within isolationist, nationalist programs at the expense of international accords.

But whats the view from within America?

 

[mukk_in]

I can only speak as an investor in America. It seems to me that America is trying fix some of the ills and abuses (one-sided agreements, being taken advantage of, etc.) it may have faced in the past. Maybe its time for America to think of her needs first, than go out and save the world . Of course, Americans hurting from the tariffs and price hikes will have a totally different take on it. Peace in Christ .

 

[FireDragon76]

I think it's an historical oddity and doesn't represent long-term change, at least not yet. Trump is one of the least popular presidents in our history. He won because of many factors besides people actual liking him here.

 

[Zoii]

I can only speak as an investor in America. It seems to me that America is trying fix some of the ills and abuses (one-sided agreements, being taken advantage of, etc.) it may have faced in the past. Maybe its time for America to think of her needs first, than go out and save the world . Of course, Americans hurting from the tariffs and price hikes will have a totally different take on it. Peace in Christ .

So from an American investor perspective, how do you see American-Based stocks ultimately performing in an environment of high tariffs levied against the USA in the EU and across Asia? Right now the Dow Jones has been performing well - how confident will the market be in an environment of a trade war.

Trade is not the only issue. What's happening in the mind of Americans that they want nothing to do with international law, old military alliances, or agreements to manage climate change...etc etc... whats in the American mind to desire an isolation from other countries?

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Down the drain of history.

 

[PloverWing]

Like FireDragon76, I think this is temporary, and reflects Trump in particular, not the American attitude in general. Trump has some support in the country (as you've seen on CF), but also a lot of opposition. I'm hoping that he'll finish out his 4-year term and then will be replaced by someone more mainstream, with more skills and knowledge, in the 2020 election. I don't know if the next president will be able to undo the damage done by the current president. I hope so.

 

[DogmaHunter]

It would appear that America is wanting to step back as a world leader by denouncing existing relationships. In the past four years, it has thrown out long-standing trade alliances, refused to sign any agreements recognising and managing climate change, has isolated countries such as Turkey (a country that has long been a strategic point for the USA), and stepped away from military alliances.

It has now formed closer alliances with Russia. It's attacking Asia and Europe with trade tariffs and has recently asserted its position along with Russia (and Sudan and Israel) as the only countries not to recognise the International Criminal Court...... today, in fact, it strongly denounced the capacity to bring to justice international crime.

Countries such as my own are recognising the shift in the American view towards its allies and its global role. Australia, for the first time, now instead operates international military operations with China. Australia has recognised China as a more stable trading partner with a responsible program around Carbon emissions, and less erratic foreign policy.

While Americans domestically may understand where they are heading, outside of America we are becoming increasingly bereft of what the USA is as an international entity. The appearance to those outside of USA is a country wanting to retreat within isolationist, nationalist programs at the expense of international accords.

But whats the view from within America?

The US is moving southeast at roughly 15mm per year.

Conceptually, it's hard to tell as it tends to change every 4 years when total opposites are voted into the white house.

At the moment with Trump, I'ld say it's moving into total isolation which will hurt them in the long run.
As for it's position as a super power, it's moving away from it and has been for quite some time. Partly due to having such poor education.

As it stands, half of phd students are foreigners with an H1B, who return home after their studies, taking their knowledge with them, to start companies in other countries, contributing to those economies.

It's how slowly but surely a "silicon valley" is showing up in China and India.

America in general is simply making all the wrong choices, which will backfire in the future.

 

[Norbert L]

I don't think America is as "isolationist" as it's being made out to be. They're reverting back to decades of foreign policy that existed prior to the decades old world trade agreements that were put in place between now and WW2. As they voice it "fair trade" compared to "free trade".

Politicize it to which approach is right or wrong, but one thing is certain. A large proportion of American citizens aren't happy with the results in recent past as they weren't previously happy before the free trade details were put in place too.

The way I see it, predicting the future is game. It did work for America in the past before the free trade deals, will it work again? There's no way to say for sure whether something will be worse or better relative to another course of action.

 

[joinfree]

It would appear that America is wanting to step back as a world leader by denouncing existing relationships. In the past four years, it has thrown out long-standing trade alliances, refused to sign any agreements recognising and managing climate change, has isolated countries such as Turkey (a country that has long been a strategic point for the USA), and stepped away from military alliances.

It has now formed closer alliances with Russia. It's attacking Asia and Europe with trade tariffs and has recently asserted its position along with Russia (and Sudan and Israel) as the only countries not to recognise the International Criminal Court...... today, in fact, it strongly denounced the capacity to bring to justice international crime.

Countries such as my own are recognising the shift in the American view towards its allies and its global role. Australia, for the first time, now instead operates international military operations with China. Australia has recognised China as a more stable trading partner with a responsible program around Carbon emissions, and less erratic foreign policy.

While Americans domestically may understand where they are heading, outside of America we are becoming increasingly bereft of what the USA is as an international entity. The appearance to those outside of USA is a country wanting to retreat within isolationist, nationalist programs at the expense of international accords.

But whats the view from within America?

The satanism is one of the state approved "religions" in USA. Guess it tells the final destination, isn't it? The semi-goodness is the Evil.

 

[mindlight]

It would appear that America is wanting to step back as a world leader by denouncing existing relationships. In the past four years, it has thrown out long-standing trade alliances, refused to sign any agreements recognising and managing climate change, has isolated countries such as Turkey (a country that has long been a strategic point for the USA), and stepped away from military alliances.

America has taken a step back from arrangements in which it was being taken for advantage and which were steadily helping to erode its edge. It is a kind of selfishness to put America First but also to some extent a reality check for the rest of us. European NATO has not been paying its way in NATO for instance. Turkey has not been a real ally since Erdogan came to power and so its membership of NATO is a Cold War Legacy in my view that adds little real value.

It has now formed closer alliances with Russia. It's attacking Asia and Europe with trade tariffs and has recently asserted its position along with Russia (and Sudan and Israel) as the only countries not to recognise the International Criminal Court...... today, in fact, it strongly denounced the capacity to bring to justice international crime.

America defines both Russia and China as rivals in military practice and plans its defence strategy with these two powers as potential threats. Also the internal dynamics of American politics have made it impossible to form closer ties with Russia even though there was much to be gained from this in the Middle East for instance. America does hold its own to account and not being a member of the ICC gives it a freedom as a Sovereign Actor against countries which say they are members but ignore its rulings in practice.

Countries such as my own are recognising the shift in the American view towards its allies and its global role. Australia, for the first time, now instead operates international military operations with China. Australia has recognised China as a more stable trading partner with a responsible program around Carbon emissions, and less erratic foreign policy.

China is polluting far more intensely than America and its green talk is long overdue. It accounts for 30% of global CO2 emissions by itself!!! Practice has yet to catch up with words.
List of countries by carbon dioxide emissions - Wikipedia

BUt it could be argued that the Chinese leadership are being far cleverer than the Americans talking the language of globalisation while in practice operating a China first policy that seems to be working very effectively in closing the gap on the USA and undermining the trust of its allies.

While Americans domestically may understand where they are heading, outside of America we are becoming increasingly bereft of what the USA is as an international entity. The appearance to those outside of USA is a country wanting to retreat within isolationist, nationalist programs at the expense of international accords.

But whats the view from within America?

America has always been isolationist in cultural terms and unable to read the texts of other countries narratives except on its own terms. The plain fact is that it is a rich country that is mainly self sufficient in all that matters and does not really need the rest of us. That it grew so powerful that it could run the world after WW2 without endangering that domestic tranquillity and prosperity is the remarkable thing. Now it feels that the world may in fact be undermining what it has.

That said it is better to keep America involved than for it to withdraw into itself. In the nuclear age isolationism is not a real option and American peace is contingent on global peace.

 

[dzheremi]

It would appear that America is wanting to step back as a world leader by denouncing existing relationships. In the past four years, it has thrown out long-standing trade alliances, refused to sign any agreements recognising and managing climate change, has isolated countries such as Turkey (a country that has long been a strategic point for the USA), and stepped away from military alliances.

Why on earth shouldn't the USA be allowed to decide that certain relationships aren't worth it? I wish we'd make similar decisions with regard to Israel and Saudi Arabia.

It has now formed closer alliances with Russia.

Not Russia!

I mean, how on earth are we supposed to let our Salafi masters in Saudi Arabia and Qatar take over the entire Middle East via proxies like ISIS and the MB if we're less adversarial towards Russia, who are notorious backers of Iran, the counterbalance of Sunni radicalism? (with their own radicalism, sure, but that's Islam for ya...can't moderate it, only hope to keep it focused on internal squabbles.)

It's attacking Asia and Europe with trade tariffs

Yeah, this part is dumb and inscrutable. You either want a free market economy or you don't, and I thought conservatives were traditionally for the freest economy possible...or is that only supposed to apply to letting American companies do whatever they want? Because the only justification I've seen of this is that it's supposed to make things more 'fair' for America, but I don't see how getting into tariff wars with, e.g., China (who, reminder Walmart shoppers, make all the things) necessarily benefits the American consumer. Maybe someone here can explain it to me.

and has recently asserted its position along with Russia (and Sudan and Israel) as the only countries not to recognise the International Criminal Court...... today, in fact, it strongly denounced the capacity to bring to justice international crime.

Didn't you begin this post by opining about how bad it was that we were 'isolating' Turkey? (As though Mr. Erdogan and his Islamist buddies bear no responsibility for this, or should not be isolated like the cancer they are.) Turkey itself is criminal -- just ask the Armenians, Assyrians/Syriacs, Greeks, and Kurds. But where is the ICC when it comes to things like this? Apparently when you found a country on genocide and mass deportation of distinct ethnoreligious minorities (and keep depriving them of their "right to self-determination" in the country to this day; see: the situation of Deyrulzafaran monastery, the forced Turkification of the Kurds, etc.), that's fine so long as you're a Muslim-majority population, but don't you dare to do anything to any Muslim-majority population in your own country, or else the International Criminal Court will come after you! (see: Burma's treatment of the Rohingya.)

That said, Bolton's/Trump's specific reason for throwing a hissy fit over the ICC seems transparently self-serving and lame. If U.S. soldiers committed war crimes in Afghanistan (and it seems pretty likely that some did), then why shouldn't they have to pay for it, the same as we would want the soldiers of any other nation to have to if the tables were turned? The ICC may be full of hypocrisy in its selective approach to crimes, but that shouldn't give 'us' reason or excuse to be.

Countries such as my own are recognising the shift in the American view towards its allies and its global role. Australia, for the first time, now instead operates international military operations with China. Australia has recognised China as a more stable trading partner with a responsible program around Carbon emissions, and less erratic foreign policy.

That's probably a reasonable move, given the erratic nature of Herr Trump. Hopefully in the future we can rebuild some of the alliances that are being messed up now.

While Americans domestically may understand where they are heading, outside of America we are becoming increasingly bereft of what the USA is as an international entity. The appearance to those outside of USA is a country wanting to retreat within isolationist, nationalist programs at the expense of international accords.

But whats the view from within America?

I think there's a recognition within the United States that while there is a lot of benefit to being a party to 'international accords' (depending), such things should not be blindly followed should there be some major flaw in them that leaves us at a disadvantage relative to some other power (the question then being how much of this stuff that's coming from the administration is really about "making America great again", and how much of it is really about other things; I am skeptical, since I do not trust the current group of clowns). After all, everyone wants what's best for his or her own country if for no greater reason than that it is where they live, right? And no country is without its own problems and controversies. For instance, I don't see individual Australians lining up to issue a bunch of mea culpas for their own country's immigration detention centers despite the international outcry over them, so maybe others could benefit from being a little bit more internally focused, just as the USA could benefit from being a little more internationally focused/less isolationist than it has been characterized as being as of late.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

America has to do something before we collapse under the weight of debt due mainly to our accumulated trade deficits.

 

[Petros2015]

But whats the view from within America?

My country is tearing itself apart.

I share the rest of the view that you stated in your OP, it seems pretty accurate.

 

[durangodawood]

...While Americans domestically may understand where they are heading....

Sounds like youre trying to be generous. Americans, on average, are mired in befuddlement and fantasy.

...The appearance to those outside of USA is a country wanting to retreat within isolationist, nationalist programs at the expense of international accords.

But whats the view from within America?

The view from within America is:
A. anyone fortunate enough to have a 401k (retirement account) will submit to anything so long as it grows for the next year. After that the world can fall off a cliff.
B. the rest want someone to blame.
C. growing doubts that other countries even exist and arent a cooked up fake scientific 'consensus'.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

.

C. growing doubts that other countries even exist and arent a cooked up fake scientific 'consensus'.

We know they exist because millions of them are showing up on our doorstep every year (in spite of that rascal Trump).

 

[AirPo]

Down the drain of history.

He did say he was going to drain the swamp. I guess he forgot to say that he meant America.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

He did say he was going to drain the swamp. I guess to forgot to say that he meant America.

America has been circling the drain ever since Buddy Holly died.

 

[Yekcidmij]

America has to do something before we collapse under the weight of debt due mainly to our accumulated trade deficits.

Trade deficits and federal debt are not the same thing.

See Japan for an example of a huge national debt but trade surplus.

 

[dzheremi]

America has been circling the drain ever since Buddy Holly died.

Hmm...well I guess going back to the 1950s is one way to deal with all these immigrants who are supposedly coming here to take our jobs and/or kill us/drain our welfare system/force us all to speak Spanish/whatever the next thing is, since America's immigration laws didn't really begin to resemble the modern system until the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, which abolished the earlier quota system based on national origin. Then again, part of the selling point of the 1965 act was (apparently; this was before my time) that it would attract skilled labor to the USA, and I'm not entirely sure that this wouldn't be read as "they're taking our jobs!" in today's political climate...

 

[super animator]

Down the drain of history.

This is not the kind of post that I would expect from you. Bad day friend?