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Featured Where is the abomination of desolation of Daniel, Matt and Mark shown in Revelation

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by LittleLambofJesus, Jul 6, 2018.

  1. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Where in Revelation is shown the AoD mentioned in Daniel, Matthew and Mark?
    Any help on this would be appreciated. Thanks

    IN Daniel, we have this shown:

    Daniel 12:11
    And-from-time he-is-taken-away the-continually, and-to-give-of an-abomination, one-desolating, thousand, two hundreds, and ninety days

    It is repeated twice in the Olivet Discourse:

    Matthew 24:15
    Whenever then ye may be seeing the abomination of the desolation, the being declared thru Daniel the prophet, having-stood in a place, holy
    (the one-reading let him be minding/understanding)

    Mark 13:14
    `Whenever yet ye may be seeing the abomination of the desolation, the being declared thru Daniel the prophet, having-stood where not it is binding,
    (the one-reading let him be minding/understanding),
    then those in the Judea, let them be fleeing into the mountains

    However, Luke does not mention it in his Gospel, but he does mention this:

    Luke 21:20
    Whenever yet ye may perceiving/seeing Jerusalem being encompassed by armies/stratopedwn <4760>,
    then be knowing that is nigh/egguV <1451> the desolating of Her...[Revelation 18:19]

    John also uses the phrase "....the one reading...." that is used in Matt 24:15 and Mark 13:14:

    Revelation 1:3
    Blessed/happy the one reading/anaginwskwn <314> (5723) and the ones hearing, the Logos/Words of the Prophecy, and keepings in it having been written,
    for the season/time/kairoV <2540> is nigh/egguV <1451>.

    And this is shown in Luke 21:20, also of the Olivet Discourse:

    Revelation 18:19
    And they cast dust upon their heads and cried-out, weeping and mourning, saying "Woe! Woe! the great City, wherein all were made rich, that had ships at sea, by reason of her prices.
    That to one hour She was desolated/hrhmwqh <2049> (5681) .
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
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  2. Anto9us

    Anto9us Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Antiochus Epiphanes sacrificing a pig on the alter in the Temple in Macabbean times was an abomination of desolation.
    The Roman soldiers under Titus in 70 AD carrying their standards into the Temple and destroying it was an abomination of desolation (and I think that was the one warned about in Olivet Discourse - and parallels Luke's 'when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies') .
    But I don't know if Revelation records an abomination of desolation.
     
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  3. Kevin Snow

    Kevin Snow Well-Known Member

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    The abomination of desolation is 2 things in Revelation. First it is the man of lawlessness standing in the Most Holy Place in the temple. Then, through this he does this:

    And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain. ~Revelation 13:15

    This image of the beast is the abomination of desolation and he is empowered by standing in the Most Holy Place by sorcery and workings of evil to give breath to this image. This image is a stone statue of the man of lawlessness according to this scripture:

    Woe to him who says to a wooden thing, Awake; to a silent stone, Arise! Can this teach? Behold, it is overlaid with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in it. ~Habakkuk 2:19
     
  4. Inkfingers

    Inkfingers Somebody's heretic Supporter

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    The AoD is linked with 1260 days. The only corresponding mention is Revelation 11:2-3 at the start of the two witnesses when the Gentiles tread the Outer Court and city..
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
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  5. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Good post and thanks.

    The Jewish rulers were correct indeed about the Roman army coming:

    John 11:48
    "If-ever we may be be letting Him thus, all shall be believing in Him.
    And shall be coming the Romans,
    and they shall be taking away of Us and the Place and the Nation
    [Reve 6:6/14:8]

    Interesting that he Roman denarius is mentioned in Revelation.

    This verse appears to signify "famine"?

    Revelation 6:6
    And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying:
    "choinex of grain/wheat a denarius and three choinex of barleys a denarius,
    and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring".

    The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

    Thus they cut the very sinews of their own strength. At this critical and alarming conjuncture, intelligence arrived that the Roman army was approaching the city.
    The Jews were petrified with astonishment and fear ; there was no time for counsel, no hope of pacification, no means of flight:-- all was wild disorder and perplexity.........................

    The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.
    At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival and the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers,...........

    .........Meanwhile the horrors of famine grew still more melancholy and afflictive.
    The Jews, for want of food were at length compelled to eat their belts, their sandals, the skins of their shields, dried grass, and even the ordure of oxen. In the depth or this horrible extremity, a Jewess of noble family urged by the intolerable cravings of hunger, slew her infant child, and prepared it for a meal ;......................

    Revelation 18:8
    by this, in one day shall be arriving the blows of Her, death and sorrow and famine;
    and in fire She shall be being burned,
    that strong Lord, the God, the one judging Her

    I just found this site doing a google search, so I haven't yet read thru it. Here is a little snip from it:

    The Abomination that Causes Desolation Explained - Revelation Revolution
    The Abomination that Causes Desolation Explained

    On the 9th of Av of A.D. 70, the Roman army infiltrated the Temple, set up the idols of ....
    Thus Titus, the general of the Roman army at the siege of Jerusalem who ..... raised their ensigns on the Temple's eastern gate on the 9th of Av of A.D. 70............................

    The early church historian Eusebius (d. 339/340) also appears to have shared a similar view of the abomination that causes desolation:

    And from that time a succession of all kinds of troubles afflicted the whole nation and their city until the last war against them, and the final siege, in which destruction rushed on them like a flood [Dan. 9:26] with all kinds of misery of famine [Matt. 24:7], plague [Luke 21:21] and sword [Luke 21:24], and all who had conspired against the Saviour in their youth were cut off; then, too, the abomination of desolation stood in the Temple [Matt. 24:15], and it has remained there even till to-day, while they [i.e., the Jews] have daily reached deeper depths of desolation.25

    The fact that Eusebius says that the abomination of desolation remained in Jerusalem to his day appears to refer to the fact that the idol of Zeus, Caesar and Rome erected in the Temple by the Romans in A.D. 70 in a manner was set up in a more permanent way on the site of the old temple not long after its destruction by the Romans when a Temple to Zeus was built over the site of the former Temple.
     
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  6. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    The AoD is shown twice in Daniel. Is there any significance to "the AoD" and "an AoD"?

    Daniel 11:31

    and arms/02220 [email protected]` from him, they shall stand up. And they profane//violate/02490 chalal the Sanctuary/04720 miqdash, the-Refuge/ma`owz.
    And they take-away/05493 cuwr the-continual/08548 tamiyd,
    and they give/05414 nathan the-Abomination/08251 shiqquwts, one-making-desolate/08074 shamem.

    Daniel 12:11
    And-from-time he-is-taken-away/05493 cuwr the-continually/08548 tamiyd, and-to-give-of/05414 nathan an-abomination/08251 shiqquwts, one-desolating/08074 shamem, days, thousand, twohundreds, and ninety

    Hebrew Interlinear of Daniel 11:31 Showing the use of the Definite Article -
    THE Abomination of Desolation
    Hebrew Interlinear of Daniel 12:11 Showing the absence of the Definite Article -
    AN Abomination of Desolation
     
  7. gomerian

    gomerian Other Sheep

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    Some say that the Abomination that causes Desolation was the Destruction of the Temple. Some say that the Temple was destroyed because James the Just was murdered. The remnant of Judah fled from Jerusalem when that finally happened. They will flee again when the two witnesses of God are slaughtered.

    Their flight will go unnoticed, because the whole rest of the world will be partying like it's the last thing they will ever have on their mind. It is at this time that the remnant flock will go into hiding and be fed manna from God, while the scorpion's tail marks for destruction the children of the beast.
     
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  8. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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  9. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Very interesting view and thanks.
    As I always do, I decided to look up where that word "image" is shown elsewhere and behold! Caesar!

    Now this is just astounding.
    #1504 is used only 3 times in the Gospels, and those in conjunction with the image of Caesar on the denary coin.

    Strong's Number G1504 matches the Greek εἰκών (eikōn),which occurs 23 times in 20 verses

    Matthew 22:
    17 tell us, therefore, what dost thou think? is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar or not?’ 18 And Jesus having known their wickedness, said, ‘Why Me do ye tempt, hypocrites?
    19 show Me the tribute-coin?’ and they brought to Him a denary;
    20 and he saith to them, ‘Whose [is] this image<1504> and the inscription?’
    21 they say to him, ‘Caesar’s;’
    then saith he to them, ‘Render therefore the things of Caesar to Caesar, and the things of God to God;’

    Mark 12:
    15 And he, knowing their hypocrisy, said to them, ‘Why Me do ye tempt? bring me a denary, that I may see;’
    16 and they brought, and He saith to them, ‘Whose [is] this image<1504>, and the inscription?’ and they said to him, ‘Caesar’s;’

    Luke 20:
    23 And he, having perceived their craftiness, said unto them, ‘Why me do ye tempt?
    24 shew me a denary; of whom hath it an image<1504> and superscription?’ and they answering said, ‘Of Caesar:’

    And what do the Jewish rulers and their followers proclaim here in John:

    John 19:15
    Those yet cry-out "take-away! take-away! crucify! Him".
    Pilate Is saying to them "the King of ye I shall be crucifying?".
    Answered the Chief-priests "not we are having a King except Caesar"

    And what does Reve 6:6 say about the Roman denary:

    Revelation 6:6
    And I hear a voice in midst of the four living-ones saying: "choinex of grain/wheat a denary and three choinex of barleys a denary,
    and the oil and the wine no you should be injuring". [John 11:48]

    Pulpit Commentary

    Verse 20. - Image and superscription. The figure and inscription on the denarius. Jesus takes the coin, and points to it as he speaks.
    It must have borne a likeness of the emperor, and,therefore, as Edersheim remarks, must have been either a foreign one (Roman) or possibly one of the Tetrareh Philip, who on some of his coins introduced the image of Tiberius.

    The coins struck by the Romans in or for Palestine had, in accommodation to Jewish prejudices, no representation of any personage upon them. The Roman denarius at this date had on the obverse side the head of Tiberius, crowned with laurel leaves, and bore the legend, "TI CAESAR DIVI AVG FAVGVSTVS," and on the reverse, a seated female figure, with the inscription, "PONTIF MAXIM.".........................

    Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

    And he saith unto them,.... Having the penny in one hand, and pointing to it with the other,

    whose is this image and superscription? or inscription? for the penny that was, brought him had an image upon it, the form of a man's head struck on it, and round about it an inscription, or writing, showing who it was the image of, and whose money it was, and when it was coined: this is enough to show, that this penny was not a Jewish, but a Roman one; for the Jews, though they put inscriptions, yet no images on their coin; and much less would they put Caesar's thereon, as was on this: it is asked (r),

    "What is the coin of Jerusalem? The answer is, David and Solomon on one side, and Jerusalem the holy city off the other side, i.e. as the gloss observes, David and Solomon were "written" on one side, and on the other side were written Jerusalem the holy city.''
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
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  10. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Again, only by an unsound hermeneutic and man-made interpretation of the Bible. Because God makes no mention of the erection of a pagan altar in the temple, or Antiochus Epiphanes, or 168 BC, or of AD 70. There is not one word where God speaks of such dates or occurrences. This is another private interpretation of man, unsubstantiated by the Biblical record.

    Opinion is not firm evidence from Scripture. The definition of opinion is a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge. The definition of speculation is "the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence." What you did was speculate based on your opinion, not on firm Scripture. When you name "a minimum" of three men (Antiochus IV, Julius Caesar, Vespasian or another) that you say it might be, that is speculation. If it wasn't, you'd only name one. The Bible doesn't speculate, so to claim your theory is based on firm evidence, while saying it could be referring to either of these three people or even others, is by definition "not" firm evidence for any of them. It's a scattergun or shotgun approach to interpretation where you throw a lot of names out there guessing one might hit the mark.

    Acts 18:28
    • "For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ."
    Not speculating that Jesus could be the Christ, or John the Baptist might be or Zechariah may be, but proving He was the Christ from the Scriptures that confirmed Him, that prophesied of Him, that foretold of His birth circumstances, His mission, His power, what would happen to Him, how He would be rejected, etc., etc. That "qualifies" as firm Biblical evidence.

    Again, that is just man's speculation and suppositions. For the TRUTH is, the prophet Daniel never "EVER" prophesied of the erection of a pagan altar in the temple by Antiochus Epiphanes in 168 BC, nor of Romans in AD 70. An unfortunate penchant of man is that he transposes his own personal ideas onto the Bible.

    2nd Peter 1:20
    • "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."
    The prophecy of scripture is not subject to our own private or personal interpretations, since it is the divinely inspired word of the living God, and not subject to the will of man. Holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost, and thus interpretations of their words can only be through God's word. Not through man's supposition, not through reading our own imaginations into scripture, and certainly not through the words of secular historians. A sound hermeneutic and ordered exegesis of scripture is paramount in understanding prophesy. And it starts with comparing scripture with scripture, not with man's words. Letting God interpret His own words, not man. Do you realize that Christ referenced Daniel, not Josephus, hello?!

    Daniel 9:27
    • [27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    Daniel 8:9-14 KJV
    • [9] And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
    • [10] And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
    • [11] Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
    • [12] And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
    • [13] Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
    • [14] And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
    The continual, or daily was not taken away by Antiochus or Titus or any other man, but by the spirit Satan. He is a little power that should arise and magnify himself in "THE TEMPLE OF GOD" and cast the truth down. Tell me, WHAT TRUTH was in the physical Jewish Temple in Jerusalem in AD 70?

    Lest we forget, it was "by reason of transgression an host was given against the daily sacrifice." That is the prophecy. Christ further illuminated it declaring, abomination would stand in the Holy Place. The Jewish Temple was NOT Holy nor the Holy Place of God in AD 70, nor was it brought to desolation by Antiochus Epiphanes in 168 BC. The fact is, neither Titus nor Antiochus Epiphanes is the little horn that God declares shall cast the truth down (Jerusalem did NOT have the truth in AD 70), take away the continual (daily), which Jerusalem didn't have to be cast down, throw the place of the Prince down (the Jewish temple was not the place of the Prince in AD 70), and tread down the host for 2300 days, cleaning the Sanctuary.

    Sorry, Antiochus doesn't quality anymore that Josephus qualifies to interpret God's word. That is as disjointed a theory that I have read. No, the well-traveled AD 70 theory is all just a pipe dream, a tradition, a very bad private interpretation that disregards all the Biblical facts, substituting speculations for sound exegesis.

    Enough said.
     
  11. Anto9us

    Anto9us Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'll buy that for a denarius.
     
  12. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    ^_^.

     
  13. Anto9us

    Anto9us Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't know how to express my views on Biblical Prophecy except to word it that I believe in Dual Fulfillment and Multiple Fulfillment.

    The classic example is Isaiah's "Behold, a virgin shall conceive". In the original Hebrew, that word ALMA denoted a young woman of marriagable age, with out a clear designation of virginity or not. I believe there was a young boy born in Isaiah's time, of natural conception, that was a literal fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy. Long after this happenned, the Hebrew Scriptures were translated into Greek -- the Septuagint; in it -- PARTHENOS was used which is a "virgin virgin" unequivocably. So the same prophecy predicts the OT boy of an ALMA, and Christ of a PARTHENOS -- Dual Fulfillment.

    It is Full Preterism's assertion that "this happenned - there will be nothing else in the future" that prevents me from swallowing it AS AN ESCHATOLOGICAL SYSTEM.

    Daniel speaks of an Abomination of Desolation -- and most people know it happenned in time of Antiochus Epiphanes -- circa 167 BC. But Jesus in Olivet Discourse says one is COMING; to flee when you see Abomination of Desolation. It is historical fact that Christians fled to Pella and elsewhere circa 70 AD. Dual Fulfillment -- possible Multiple Fullfillment -- yes, a third AOD still to come
     
  14. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Oh my......I just couldn't help getting a chuckle out of the way you worded that ^_^

    1 Samuel 5:
    3

    And when the people of Ashdod arose early in the morning, there was Dagon, fallen on its face to the ground before the ark of the LORD. So they took Dagon and set it in its place again.
    4
    And when they arose early the next morning, there was Dagon, fallen on its face to the ground before the ark of the LORD. The head of Dagon and both the palms of its hands were broken off on the threshold; only Dagon's torso[fn] was left of it.
     
  15. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Why not 4, 5 or a dozen more of them.
    Another words, when is enough enough..........
     
  16. Anto9us

    Anto9us Well-Known Member Supporter

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    it aint over til it's over
     
  17. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    And the fat lady sings...........

    Matthew 24
    32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; when his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh/<1451egguV>:
    33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is nigh/<1451>egguV, even at the doors. [Mark 13:28, 29 Luke 21:30,31]

    Revelation 22:10
    And He is saying to me "no thou should be sealing the words of the Prophecy of this scroll.
    For the time is-nigh/egguV <1451>


     
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  18. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Newbie

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  19. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think you did not read carefully on what I said.

    "Because God makes no mention of the erection of a pagan altar in the temple, or Antiochus Epiphanes, or 168 BC, or of AD 70."
    I had to chuckle at how you have misapplied 1st Samuel 5 since the ark of the Lord was placed within the Dagon's temple! Not God's. Can you provide me a verse where a pagan altar was erected in Jewish Temple?
     
  20. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    and Revelation 12, the Virtuous Woman (= true spiritual Israel remnant amongst whom the Messiah was born, amidst whom Jesus ministered, and from whom came the original Jewish Apostles & Disciples who started the Church) flees to the Wilderness for 1260 days ?

    Cp. Christians fled to Pella during the siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD
     
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