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Where is holiness?

Discussion in 'Archived - Ethics & Morality' started by Crashfreak, Feb 14, 2005.

  1. Crashfreak

    Crashfreak Active Member

    255
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    I am posting this topic because I have been reading through a few of the media related threads and it seems to come out most in those threads but I definitely don't think it is limited to that. It also tends to be more easy to read from younger christians than from more experienced older christians.

    Anyway where has the idea of holiness gone? Conservative christians will focus so much on the rules and guidelines given from the Bible to try and live a holy life. Liberal Christians aren't much better where they will focus on the freedom and grace that God gives in living holy lives. The problem is that most people (not all) but me included will excuse there way out of living pure holy lives. And the most irritating thing that I have heard (and I probably don't say it but most surely think it) is that a person will allow themselves to do something and say well it doesn't affect me, it depends on your conviction. Only if you are convicted about this or that. Some things you don't need to be convicted about. The problem I feel is that so many people want so badly to live their lives, who can blame them, who would want to. Unfortunately when we give ourselves to Christ he wants all of us. Our every thought should be about him (obviously impossible, but should be our guiding purpose).

    So there was this topic that said "Are horror movies bad?" and that is the wrong question. I mean how would watching a horror movie, and by the very nature of a horror movie it contains things that are evil in some form, how would this benefit our relationship with Christ, how would it create a nation of holy people dedicated to living with Christ. We are called to live these holy lives that are holy each and evey day, not only when we are at church, or around our Christian friends. I for one want to at least aim for that, I want to not make excuses. I know that I will fail, I know I will do things that are obviously not holy but that is what I want to move forward towards.

    I mentioned conservative and liberal christians early, I think the key is a combination of the both. Conservative christians need to learn the freedom that comes from being a more liberal Christian, but liberal Christians need to so badly learn the rules and guidelines that God doesn't need to convict you off because it is already written in his word. And those christians who have a good balance of both need to really help those on left or the right to balance there lives and be understanding to where they are coming from.

    I am sure that people will disagree with me, and I would love to discuss it. However I feel some people may get angry with this.
     
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  2. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

    +389
    Baptist
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    I say a big AMEN, HALLELUJAH, make me wanna run around the church 3 times, Praise JESUS to the entire post!!!

    The Christian mantra should be: A Christian Testimony is a TERRIBLE thing to waste!!!
     
  3. Milsusan

    Milsusan New Member

    3
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    Non-Denom
    Hi crashfreak,

    Are you familiar with the scripture that says 'all things are permissable, but not all things are beneficial' (I'll look it up if you like) I used to be so bound up by the rules and moral pressure of religion that I couldn't walk across the carpark without feeling convicted to pick up every piece of rubbish. That scripture really set me free. I don't think its wrong to enjoy your freedom, afterall Jesus came to set us free, but what the liberal Christians may omit is that freedom comes with responsibility. The responsibility is to seek God, to have a relationship with Him. I am blessed in knowing this and I hope it blesses you to.
    Here's a thought to ponder: the Greek meaning of holiness is 'set apart'. Does this imply morals to you?
     
  4. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

    +389
    Baptist
    Single
    Actually it could imply morals. You're supposed to be set apart from the world, and this world is definitely immoral.
     
  5. Crashfreak

    Crashfreak Active Member

    255
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    Thank you yes, I do know and understand that scripture. I think you missed the point I was trying to make. As you noticed I compared both conservative (which I consider legalistic) and liberal (which I feel use that piece of scripture all too often) and thought that the middle ground would be a good place. I don't believe at all in wrapping yourself in legalism like the Pharisees during Jesus' time. My point was more that people are becoming more and more reluctant to make Christ first in their lives. You do have the freedom to do as you please and Christ has given us such wonderful experiences to live and minds that can create and invent so many wonderful things. The point is people are not putting Christ first, instead they are referencing verses like the one you noted to excuse their behaviour. My point is not to wrap up people in rules but rather to think about their actions in relation to their relationship with Christ. If some one truely isn't convicted about one particular thing, then fine their relationship is with Christ alone, and no one can judge otherwise. I just feel too many people today are using it as an excuse.

    Can you truely say that Christ is first in your life?

    We must be ruled by the love of Christ, and if we truely love Christ we will do what he says.
     
  6. Milsusan

    Milsusan New Member

    3
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    Non-Denom
    Thanks,

    I would say that rather than Christ being first in my life, my relationship with God is. I don't think Jesus goes around telling us what to do all the time. We were entrusted with free will, but as I said, it carries responsibilities. I think the people who use the verse to excuse their behaviour are missing the point. Would you agree? Like you say, technically we can do whatever we want, but it does not mean that we should do whatever we feel like. To me, I have a responsibility to get sorted before God, so that I can be holy or 'set apart'.

    Your point made me smile, Zaac. I guess set apartness could mean being moral as the world is immoral. I was looking a little deeper. I'm talking about holiness rooted in your character that comes as God deals with us, because I know that if I tried to follow morals (or social rules!) I would be completely bound up and fall flat on my face. :)

    Be blessed
     
  7. kedaman

    kedaman Well-Known Member

    +4
    Christian
    Grace and freedom is good, laws and guidance is good, but holiness is our aim. Its not a question of balance (that has something of eastern philosophy in it?), but a question of completeness, all encompassing into every detail. Taking freedom is not an issue, the issue is that more will be asked from they who have been given more. A materialist mindset can't grasp this, because what is more and what is less to a materialist? Does the scripture make any sense at all? People don't know whats up or down anymore because they are featherlight and goes wherever the wind blows. But there are also among them people who actually struggle, even though they are not perfect, they try to, but you don't really see the difference between one and the other usually which is why grace is important, that they can be saved, indeed its important to all of us. But does anyone actually experience persecution? It is very easy to avoid it and compromise with worldly ways, and then taking freedom is very dangerous, as to the pure everything is pure but to the impure, nothing is pure. Most who call themselves Christians may not be saved because they simply never got to know Christ. I think to follow Christ means to pick up the cross, and to do that your entire valuesystem must be reconstructed, you have to go down to the bottom and sort out all things that don't belong there; everything worldly, even your most intimate relationships (for who comes to Jesus without hating your family first?). You must realize how shallow it actually is, no matter how important they are to you, because when you become more intimate with Christ, everything else will turn pale and meaningless in comparison.
     
  8. California Tim

    California Tim Well-Known Member

    869
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    Married
    When we discuss our brethren in Christ, we are assuming first of all that they are genuinely saved. In that light, it is safe to consider them servants of Christ and Paul gives us all a little insight insofar as we are to regard them. Since we are unable to discern the motives of others, we cannot properly apply flawed logic when deciding a one-size-fits-all worship style.
    Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4)

    But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. (Romans 14:10)

    So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way. (Romans 14:12-13)​
    As you may now see, Christ will be the judge of His own. Meanwhile, we are here to encourage, uplift, fellowship with and pray for one another. We are not here to nitpick over differences in worship styles. We can debate doctrinal issues and point out error, but we are yet unable to discern the heart of another. Therefore, I recommend taking each brother or sister at face value and stick to the doctrinal issues rather than call into question that which requires full knowledge of motive to judge properly.
     
  9. seebs

    seebs God Made Me A Skeptic

    +1,468
    Seeker
    Married
    US-Republican
    Serious horror films and books can be art, and all art can be edifying. Just plain fun stuff? Well, that's fun. Fun can be edifying. Anything we find pleasure in is potentially edifying.
     
  10. How is this world immoral? I know that people can be, but the world isn't. And honestly, if you're going off what is on the news, all you're going to see is the bad stuff. There are plenty of people in the world with morals. This world IS a good place, in general. Its just that there are spots and places where the immoral people are more vocal and active, thus making everyone else look bad.

    Atleast, thats what I believe. ~shrug~
     
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