Which instances of apologetics in Acts were "sufficient"?

[2PhiloVoid]

Yeah. Like where? Care to cite several clear examples from the book of Acts? And if what you cite are examples, would you mind explaining the social and procedural nature of each example?

Edit: Ok. Apparently, I didn't make the OP question(s) clear enough. My focal point and inquiry for this thread should probably be rearticulated as follows: what should count as citable instances of apologetics within the account of the book of Acts, and were these examples of "successful" or "sufficient" defense?

 

[Pavel Mosko]

I see Paul setting the template for early apologists like Justin Martyr. I can point to a number of things in that way. Now as modern apologists goes...... not really. But definitely your early apologists who were very culturally aware, literate etc. and used lots of examples to exemplify or expound on the Gospel. I mean Paul talking before Herod and Felix (names may be wrong) is a perfect example, that really is a literal apology aka "A defense" as in a legal type defense.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I see Paul setting the template for early apologists like Justin Martyr. I can point to a number of things in that way. Now as modern apologists goes...... not really. But definitely your early apologists who were very culturally aware, literate etc. and used lots of examples to exemplify or expound on the Gospel. I mean Paul talking before Herod and Felix (names may be wrong) is a perfect example, that really is a literal apology aka "A defense" as in a legal type defense.

... correct me if I'm wrong, but it almost sounds like you're saying that much of what we call and do as apologetics today isn't born and bred in the same cauldron of 'legal ramifications' as it was those 20 centuries ago. Am I understanding you right, Pavel?

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

Yeah. Like where? Care to cite several clear examples? And if what you cite are examples, would you mind explaining the social and procedural nature of each example?

Acts 2:14 - Peter defends the strange actions of those affected by the coming of the Holy Spirit
Acts 3:12 & Acts 4:8 - Peter defends the healing of the crippled man
Acts 7:1 - Stephen defends his preaching
Acts 11:4 - Peter defends his actions in allowing the salvation of Gentiles
Acts 15 - Paul defends the inclusion of Gentiles into the faith
Acts 17:22 - Paul defends his faith in Jesus in the Areopagus of Athens
Acts 22 - Paul defends his actions against a Jewish mob
Acts 23 - Paul defends his beliefs about the resurrection in front of the Sanhedrin
Acts 24:10 - Paul defends his belief before governor Felix
Acts 26 - Paul defends his belief before Agrippa

There are other incidents but they could be just construed as preaching.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'the social and procedural nature'. For procedure they are just people defending what they believe against those that oppose them.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Acts 2:14 - Peter defends the strange actions of those affected by the coming of the Holy Spirit
Acts 3:12 & Acts 4:8 - Peter defends the healing of the crippled man
Acts 7:1 - Stephen defends his preaching
Acts 11:4 - Peter defends his actions in allowing the salvation of Gentiles
Acts 15 - Paul defends the inclusion of Gentiles into the faith
Acts 17:22 - Paul defends his faith in Jesus in the Areopagus of Athens
Acts 22 - Paul defends his actions against a Jewish mob
Acts 23 - Paul defends his beliefs about the resurrection in front of the Sanhedrin
Acts 24:10 - Paul defends his belief before governor Felix
Acts 26 - Paul defends his belief before Agrippa

There are other incidents but they could be just construed as preaching.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'the social and procedural nature'. For procedure they are just people defending what they believe against those that oppose them.

That's a good list of probable examples, Wayne. But I'd like to see if and to what extent that others here (both Christian and Skeptic) with either contend with your list or add to it. Don't get me wrong. I like your list, but honestly, if those are examples of apologetics as the biblical writers expected it to be, I don't think we've seen this kind of thing since ............... ?

Of course, I guess there was that Scopes Monkey Trial in the 1920s in the U.S. as well as the more recent Dover trial in 2005. Or could these last examples I've add even be counted really in the same way as those you've cited?

 

[public hermit]

Yeah. Like where? Care to cite several clear examples? And if what you cite are examples, would you mind explaining the social and procedural nature of each example?

The main example that comes to mind is Paul at the Areopagus in Acts 17. He frames his sermon within their context and acknowledges points of agreement before presenting the gospel.

It is a defense, because they question his presentarion of this "strange gods" he talks about. He acknowledges that they are religious. He then takes an observation of their religious practice, i.e. the idol to an unknown God, and then reveals to them the God they did not know.

It's a brilliant move on his part. He is speaking, it seems, to philosophers so he appeals to various points of intersection between them and he, e.g. God does not live in a temple, needs nothing from humans, is the Source of being, etc. He finds points of agreement and then presents the gospel as the better option. And, it works!

Maybe what he does is better classified as evangelism, rather than apologetics. But, the impetus is their questioning and then taking him to the Areopagus. So, maybe it fits as an apologetic?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The main example that comes to mind is Paul at the Areopagus in Acts 17. He frames his sermon within their context and acknowledges points of agreement before presenting the gospel.

It is a defense, because they question his presentarion of this "strange gods" he talks about. He acknowledges that they are religious. He then takes an observation of their religious practice, i.e. the idol to an unknown God, and then reveals to them the God they did not know.

It's a brilliant move on his part. He is speaking, it seems, to philosophers so he appeals to various points of intersection between them and he, e.g. God does not live in a temple, needs nothing from humans, is the Source of being, etc. He finds points of agreement and then presents the gospel as the better option. And, it works!

Maybe what he does is better classified as evangelism, rather than apologetics. But, the impetus is their questioning and then taking him to the Areopagus. So, maybe it fits as an apologetic?

I think I agree that this qualifies as an example of a "kind" of apologetics that was involved in the book of Acts. But let's face it PH, this one example, as profound as I'm sure it was when delivered at the time, was more like evangelism than a life or death imposition to 'respond' to legal inquiries and prosecutions..........additionally, it wasn't really "effective" in terms which the Greeks whom Paul engaged readily acknowledge.

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

That's a good list of probable examples, Wayne. But I'd like to see if and to what extent that others here (both Christian and Skeptic) with either contend with your list or add to it. Don't get me wrong. I like your list, but honestly, if those are examples of apologetics as the biblical writers expected it to be, I don't think we've seen this kind of thing since ............... ?

I don't think the biblical writers would have expected the kind of attacks that modern Christianity suffers from.

In that respect I think we see the kind of thing that Acts shows on a regular basis.

Of course, I guess there was that Scopes Monkey Trial in the 1920s in the U.S. as well as the more recent Dover trial in 2005. Or could these last examples I've add even be counted really in the same way as those you've cited?

I don't think either of those examples as apologetics - more of blind faith.

Responses to The God Delusion would be far more apologetic than those.

 

[public hermit]

I think I agree that this qualifies as an example of a "kind" of apologetics that was involved in the book of Acts. But let's face it PH, this one example, as profound as I'm sure it was when delivered at the time, was more like evangelism than a life or death imposition to 'respond' to legal inquiries and prosecutions..........nor was it really "effective" in terms the Greeks would recognize.

Well, I agree. It doesn't match the context of apologetics that we see in the early church, e.g. Justin Martyr. It was more akin to evangelism, I think.

 

[public hermit]

I think I agree that this qualifies as an example of a "kind" of apologetics that was involved in the book of Acts. But let's face it PH, this one example, as profound as I'm sure it was when delivered at the time, was more like evangelism than a life or death imposition to 'respond' to legal inquiries and prosecutions..........nor was it really "effective" in terms the Greeks would recognize.

Would you consider Paul's statements he made on trial (made before governing authorities) as a form of apologetics?

 

[Pavel Mosko]

... correct me if I'm wrong, but it almost sounds like you're saying that much of what we call and do as apologetics today isn't born and bred in the same cauldron of 'legal ramifications' as it was those 20 centuries ago. Am I understanding you right, Pavel?

Well there was a second post that I was working that I didn't post. Where I expounded on the first one where I think Justin Martyr set the template for what we call Apologists today, where they are essentially "philosophers for Christ". Now that is not bad, but definitely a bit different than what saint Paul did.

There are some though, that have a different vibe. Like I find the late Nabeel Qureshi very compelling. Because while he was using Classical western type Apolgetics, the fact he told his story, from the perspective of being a former Muslim gave it a very gospel feel that reminded you of other kinds of testimonies from Paul and the Christians of antiquity.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Would you consider Paul's statements he made on trial (made before governing authorities) as a form of apologetics?

Yes, definitely. And I think we should all acknowledge, even if only partially, that the scenarios we find today in which a "William Lane Craig" joins a voluntary academic meet up for debate on a university campus in the U.S. are a far cry from those we find in the book of Acts or from those that took place historically outside of the book of Acts during the first three centuries A.D.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I don't think the biblical writers would have expected the kind of attacks that modern Christianity suffers from.

In that respect I think we see the kind of thing that Acts shows on a regular basis.

... you mean like going to prison or being executed for holding and defending one's Christian beliefs?

I don't think either of those examples as apologetics - more of blind faith.

Responses to The God Delusion would be far more apologetic than those.

... I won't speak for either literal Creationists nor for those who adhere to Intelligent Design on whether or not their respective efforts to defend their beliefs should be considered as "more blind faith."

 

[Caliban]

Yeah. Like where? Care to cite several clear examples? And if what you cite are examples, would you mind explaining the social and procedural nature of each example?

This is an interesting essay on Paul’s identification with the poor (working class) and how he used his skills as a tentmaker to function as ministry. Not all scholars think Paul was a tentmaker, some think he simply worked with leather—but that’s off topic. Place and labor had a strong impact on his ministry.


He Identified with the Lowly and Became a Slave to All: Paul’s Tentmaking as a Strategy for Mission

 

[cloudyday2]

Deep tissue massaging of the question in the OP might yield:
"Where is Acts-style criminal defense apologetics done later in history?".

An example might be Martin Luther and many other accused heretics until separation of church and state.

 

[Caliban]

Deep tissue massaging of the question in the OP might yield:
"Where is Acts-style criminal defense apologetics done later in history?".

An example might be Martin Luther and many other accused heretics until separation of church and state.

There is a preacher named Paul Washer that is highly sincere about helping the poor--It's too bad he is so wrong about reality; he reminds me of Paul in the NT. Your allusion to Luther is good one.

 

[HitchSlap]

I don't think the biblical writers would have expected the kind of attacks that modern Christianity suffers from.

Lol

When’s the last time a Christian was crucified?


Ya goof.

 

[Caliban]

I don't think the biblical writers would have expected the kind of attacks that modern Christianity suffers from.

In that respect I think we see the kind of thing that Acts shows on a regular basis.

What!!!??? The myth of Christian persecution; usually you only hear about such things; but here is a real life example in the wild--someone call David Attenborough.

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

What!!!??? The myth of Christian persecution; usually you only hear about such things; but here is a real life example in the wild--someone call David Attenborough.

Have you seen the state of Christianity in Iran or the been the subject of anti-Christian attacks in India or in Islamic State? Persecution exists today.

Although in fact I wasn't referring to those kinds of 'attacks' at all, after all the persecution mentioned in the countries above is very similar to those suffered in the first century and I referred to a different kind of attack.

 

[Silly Uncle Wayne]

Lol

When’s the last time a Christian was crucified?


Ya goof.

How daft. Persecution and crucifixion aren't the same thing. One can be persecuted and even executed for one's faith without crucifixion.