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Where Is America In The Last Days ?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by rollinTHUNDER, Jan 11, 2002.

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  1. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

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    Hey kingskid,
    This one might help. 1 Thes. 4:17 - "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever."

    Now, lets revisit one I gave you before in Rev. 3:10, I got something to show you about that.
    This is only part but look- I will keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come.....................

    A promise to keep us from the what?? Not the trial, not the test. He promised to keep us from the hour, or time. It clearly means we won't be here. Amen brother!
     
  2. Debbie

    Debbie Active Member

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    1 Thess.4:17- "...caught up..in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air..." Elsewhere it says the dead in Christ shall RISE first.
     
  3. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

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    Your Right Debbie,
    I purposely left that part out, because my point was the part about being caught up in the air, not the dead, which is in the verse before it.
     
  4. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

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    To most of the world it would seem, that America is justified in our re-action to retaliate against Afghanistan, especially after they harbored the terrorists, that wrongly attacked the worlds economy. But this war is not against Afghanistan, it's against the terrorists. But not all terrorists are in Afghanistan. They are spread out all over the globe. They are definately not an easy target. Who's next, after Afghanistan?? This is a tough question, but one that deserves an answer.

    America is backed into a very tight corner. Sooner or later, we will have to deal will Iraq. He is not just gonna go away. If we do nothing, we are headed for big trouble. It would be wise to remove Saddam Hussein from power now, but will our government leaders make the wise move?? The longer we wait, the more likely another disaster will be thrown upon us.

    There is one underlying issue that knowone wants to talk about, but it too, will not just go away. And that is OIL. Everybody wants to protect their own interests. I believe that oil is the main cause for all the tension in the Middle East. Every body wants a piece of the pie. I also believe that this is another reason that the U.S. is being very careful with the whole situation. We must use tact when dealing with this situation, because if we move too fast, we could cut our own throats. We can't afford to make all the Arab States angry, or they will shut down our oil supply. And I believe that is the only thing making the U.S. be very patient.

    If we attack the terrorists in Somalia, or the Phillipines, it would probably buy us more time. But if we rush in and attack Iraq, it could be the straw that breaks the camels back. It would definately open another can of worms at the very least. Like I said before, sooner or later we have to deal with Iraq. And when we do, I would amagine that the world will hear the cry of the poor Muslims, and how the Americans are trying to destroy the whole muslim faith. The attacks of 9-11-01, very well could be the start of World War III, but not Armageddon.
     
  5. kingskid

    kingskid Kid of the Most High

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    When Paul was "caught up" 14 years earlier as I posted scripture before. He say's he is not sure if it was in body or out of body.

    I still can not help but believe that Paul's definition of the word is perhaps different than ours.

    At any rate when Debbie mentions the Lord "gathering", yes the Lord does mention gathering His elect but also states that is after the tribulation.
     
  6. Josiah

    Josiah Super suction ears away!

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    Where?
     
  7. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

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    On this thread at least, the gathering is before the tribulation. But that too, is just my opinion.
     
  8. kimanne

    kimanne New Member

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    This is an excellent thread, RT! Thanks for sharing your wisdom and thoughts with us! To take this a little further, I would like your thoughts...

    My husband and I just had a discussion about this recently. Some believe that when they die, they will be in heaven - yet how does that reconcile with the opening of the Book of Life?. Some believe that we will remain in our graves until Christ comes, then be gathered up, and the Book of Life will opened. I believe that, too, I suppose because our time in the grave will seem like a blink of an eye - thus to be absent of the body is to be present with the Lord.

    Also, my husband says that his understanding of judgement, based on Pastor Chuck Colson, is that believers will immediately be in heaven upon their deaths. And that the Book of Life is not a judgement (or decision) on whether or not you go to Heaven (because you will already be there if you have left your earthly body), but we will be shown our lives, the good and the bad, and we will be given our PLACE in heaven (the mansion has many rooms...) This is much food for thought, because I also thought that the Book of Life was a judgement, and that believers and nonbelievers alike would be there for the Book of Life. Please give me your thoughts on this. ~kim
     
  9. Willis Deal

    Willis Deal Member

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    Been awhile since I studied this but it seems to me that the lambs book of life is a judgment but it occurs after the tribulation period and would apply specificly to those who died during the tribulation period. Pre-trib Christians go before the judgment seat of Christ, and this is not a judgment of heaven or hell but a determination of which rewards you are entitled to and most likely occurs shortly after the rapture.
     
  10. Laverne3

    Laverne3 New Member

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    I used to think we would do like RT said and it would be great if it is that way. However there has been a lot of Christians lay down their lives for our belief. Our Saviour laid down His life for us, So why would we get off scot free without standing up for Christ?:)
     
  11. Josiah

    Josiah Super suction ears away!

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    We must stand up for Christ and face the consequences every DAY not at some future event such as the trib. While many Christians have laid down their lives for Christ, not EVERY believer has had to. We lay down our lives by submitting ourselves totaly to christ. That MAY actually mean that some will have to lay down their lives but it doesn't necessarily mean ALL will have to.

    This argument implys that we must go through the tribulation just so we won't get off scot free. We got off scot free when Christ died for us. There is no future physical payment that must be made by Christians (ie the trib) other than our daily walk taking up our cross and facing persecution by the world on a DAILY basis.

    Your argument is conjecture.
    :)
     
  12. kingskid

    kingskid Kid of the Most High

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    here is where it says after the tribulation gathering the elect.

    Matthew
    M't:24:29: Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    M't:24:30: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    M't:24:31: And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    I haven't been online for a while...sorry it took me so long to respond.
     
  13. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

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    Amen Josiah,
    You couldn't have said it any better. Or we might then, have to throw out my favorite two verses; John 11:25-26 - Which clearly shows some won't see death. They are already dead and crusified in Him. And I died 11 years ago.
     
  14. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

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    Hello kingskid-it's been a while,
    How have you been? Verse 30 shows where Jesus will return in His second coming, to the earth, and every eye will see Him. It will not be the rapture, when He will come like a thief in the night. We will be coming back with Him on this trip, notice in verse 31 where He is gathering from, (from one end of heaven to the other). Notice also that those on the earth mourn when they see Him coming, because they know there party is over.
     
  15. Josiah

    Josiah Super suction ears away!

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    WOW!!! I have NEVER seen that before...I always thought it was saying He would gather His elect from the Earth (meaning the tribulation saints) but it says "HEAVEN"!!! Meaning He's gathering the saints who have been raptured together to return with Him, right? I guess I've just never really scrutinized that particular verse...That is so AWESOME!! :)
     
  16. WAMC_david

    WAMC_david New Member

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    hmmm... HEllo.. first off all let me introduce myself, my names DAvid and im from California in the U.S .. im only 16 years old,,,, >> but after reading couple of these posts, cause i dont feel like reading all,,,, but i just believe that u kno we as christians arent suppose to even think about the end, it said in the bible to live our lifes like there is no tomorow, i just feel like we are kinda worrying...... well not worrying but, i dunoo just dont even think about that kinda stuff, cause of course we want god to come faster so it wouldnt really matter trying to put the worldy happening things w/ the bible, live ur life like no tomorw...

    ps. dont look down at me cause im only 16! lols

    god bless.
     
  17. Laverne3

    Laverne3 New Member

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    Josiah, Sorry it took so long to reply. 1st I had to look up ".conjecture" It said something about an opinion without any backing. 2nd I was not arguing or saying everyone would have to give their life. I used to feelt he same as you,so don't prejudge me. Please take time to read Rev.7:9-17and Rev.20:4 Thank you for checking these out and let me know what you think. I use the KJV Bible:)
     
  18. Josiah

    Josiah Super suction ears away!

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    Laverne,
    The only thing I really don't like about forums is that it's sometimes hard to really get a good feel for how someone is really saying something. I've seen many posts (mine included) that have been taken the wrong way because the spirit of how something is said doesn't carry very well in a written post.:)

    Anyway, I didn't mean to come across in a judgemental or critical way! :) :) :)

    In response to those verses -
    The way I understand them is that these are those who have come out of the great tribulation.

    When John first gets his view of heaven, he sees 24 elders which I believe represent the raptured church. Why do I think this? Read the following verses:

    Revelation 4

    1 After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this."
    2 At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it.
    3 And the one who sat there had the appearance of jasper and carnelian. A rainbow, resembling an emerald, encircled the throne.
    4 Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads.
    5 From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings and peals of thunder. Before the throne, seven lamps were blazing. These are the seven spirits[1] of God.
    6 Also before the throne there was what looked like a sea of glass, clear as crystal. In the center, around the throne, were four living creatures, and they were covered with eyes, in front and in back.
    7 The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, the fourth was like a flying eagle.
    8 Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under his wings. Day and night they never stop saying: "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come."
    9 Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever,
    10 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne, and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:
    11 "You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being."


    Look at verse 4 and verse 10. 24 elders dressed in white with golden crowns which they lay before the throne and worship their Lord and God. That's what the Saints (the church) will do. So I believe you have 2 sets of people...Those taken in the "rapture", as seen here, and those mentioned in the verse you provided, the tribulation saints.
     
  19. Laverne3

    Laverne3 New Member

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    Welcome David, I'm very proud to know you and I am new too. I don't pretend to know very much but I like to learn. The King David was about your age when he took care of Goliath. He had God's help and so will you. This is a forum for prophecy and current events , so thats why you hear these subjects. there are other ones to check out also. I lived in Modesto and understand what a special young man you must be to stay close to the Lord.:)
     
  20. Laverne3

    Laverne3 New Member

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    Well now that makes sense. I had always been taught the 24 were the 12 apostles and the 12 tribes. The Bible is so interesting!:)
     
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