Where in the Bible does it say these are sins?? Confused...

[chevyontheriver]

There were so many surrounding circumstances that it could not taken as a clear and universal prohibition. If so, it would also apply to everybody who successfully used NFP as contraception. For such deliberately refrain from sex when they believe that she can become pregnant (whether they succeed or not).

The difference is one is having sex but denying the possibility of becoming pregnant in the act. Kind of like what Onan did. The other is not having sex while fertile. Kind of unlike what Onan did, but like what others did but were not killed for. There is no sin in deciding not to have sex.

 

[Junia]

She could be part right . . . about sterilization, but part wrong, about adoption.

About physically altering yourself so you can't have children >

God is going to have you grow as a person, if you have trusted in Christ. So, I do not think it is wise to make major choices now about what you will be capable of doing later. My Biblical issue about your body alteration thing is we need to be submitting to how God guides us, and not guiding ourselves > Proverbs 3:5-6. You should not be assuming you will later be how you are now. God knows His plan for you.

But yes you can use your troubles to help you feel for others.

And about adoption > if you are capable of having children, why would you want to take an adoptable child away from someone who is physically unable to have children? A Biblical issue with this could be that we love others as ourselves, and therefore we would not take what should go to someone else.

As I meant, above, this is how you are now. In Jesus we grow and develop into people very unlike when we started as children of God. So, I would not hurry to now plan for the person you could become just a year, even, from now, never mind when you might be fifty years older!

Again . . . this is speaking for how you are now.

Well, if being bipolar is not good for bearing children, it also could be a problem for bringing up adopted children with good example. The bipolar personality could effect any children. But does this mean not to have children? I think God is able to have you develop, and to have children develop with you, if He wants you to have them . . . adopted or born from you.

Like I offered above, bipolar stuff could be not good for any child. But God is able to develop your personality more and more to be like Jesus. Read your Bible, about how we become inside ourselves because of Christ and how He has us sharing with God and relating with people. And trust God to change you like this. Do not depend on yourself, or your trying, but trust God simply.

With God, you won't just feel blessed, you will be. And, like I say, read His word and claim all we have about how God has us become in His love. And this will make you clear in an encouraging way.

Yes we can help others out of our own experience > 2 Corinthians 1:3-4.

Please > I just enjoyed some spit roasted chicken. I don't want any humans roasting!!!!!!!

spit roasted chicken is fine with me

I love spit roasted cHicken

Yes God certainly can heal and He may well heal me of my disabilities. I won't decide anything until He has. After all I am not sure tubal ligation can be reversed

Loving others as ourselves does go both ways though. If we love ourselves in the right way we will prioritise our health overhanging children.

But in the case of adoption you do make a good point...I do have a broad definition of what C ant have children means and I believe my disabilities qualify me as exempt from the command to hear children. I also do have severe PCOS which can make it hard to carry child to term. Miscarriage v common with PCOS which is a debilitating condition any way as it effects multiple organs and autoimmune system. Sadly the media portrays it as.a disease that makes.you fat and hairy. For some sufferers with mild cases this is true but I have the severe kind with vitamin deficiences, thyroid issues, diabetes etc this on top of being disabled by neurological and mental and mobility issues

So if God heals me, great, I can obey His commands. But until then I will consider myself exempt.

On judgement day she God.confronts me about my childlessness I will look at Him, eye to eye and with no shame explain myself to Him

 

[Junia]

The difference is one is having sex but denying the possibility of becoming pregnant in the act. Kind of like what Onan did. The other is not having sex while fertile. Kind of unlike what Onan did, but like what others did but were not killed for. There is no sin in deciding not to have sex.

I think Oman was motivated by greed and selfishness though. Different scenario

remember too, back then women couldn't support them selves as easilg.as we.do now. women needed marriage.

marriage and children nowadays are blessings but a woman will survive without a husband in most.cases...

 

[Junia]

There is absolutely NO Scripture that commands a woman to have biological children, or says that it's a sin not to. Children are spoken of as a blessing, and that is what they are. If a couple decides not to have biological children, for whatever reason, that is perfectly fine. Period. If a couple wants to be foster parents, that's fine. If a couple wants to adopt, that's fine, too. It's nobody's business but theirs and God's.

The idea that birth control is sinful is not supported by Scripture. It's usually something you hear from the Catholic church.

For a person who doesn't feel prepared for parenthood, or someone who doesn't want to have biological children or maybe who has medical concerns where they want to avoid a risky pregnancy, to make them feel that they're sinning by being responsible enough to not bring an unwanted, innocent child into the world... is absolutely absurd.

Yes, I consider blessings to be things we enjoy. Children are a blessing when you have health and money to support them

That isn't to say all children into less than ideal circs aren't a blessing but I can see how some women and up killing themselves and their children

Adoption should be considered for a woman with an unwAnted pregnancy...no woman should have to raise a child she is unwilling to or unable to raise

Children deserve parents who not only love them but affirm them, spend time with them, make them

feel special...

 

[HappyHope]

I guess sterilisation and even adoption could be an ethical or moral issue in some cases but I think calling something a sin when there is no scripture to back it up seems a bit...I dunno, I just don't understAnd why you would want to add to God's commandment s. Seems like mAking life complicated

Maybe the whole "Be fruitful and multiply" command is used to justify a theology opposed to sterilization? It was given to Adam and Eve in the Old Testament but it is highly doubtful it should be used to make sure everyone on earth stays as fertile as can be.

I do know countries that are having less kids are facing economic strains in the near future by not replacing themselves. Because there won't be enough workers compared to retirees. I think Japan and Russia are cases in point. Population control is not associated with prosperity. China started allowing 2 kids because they started doing the math. So God knew what he was doing with that command on multiple levels. So there is a measure of economic safety in having kids or at least plenty of immigrants in one's nation.

But this is not to say sterilization is automatically wrong in my book. I'd probably advise against it as a rule for cautions sake and because it goes against nature unless one has kids already.

If determined, I'd have to have a heart-to-heart with the Lord on my own account about my own situation. And adoption is wonderful, if course. More power to you there.

 

[Junia]

Sin is anything that goes against God. We should strive in our actions to give glory to God in all things we do. If they do not give glory to God we should perhaps question why we are doing them. So, how do the things in question give glory to God? Adoption is easy, sterilization perhaps not so easy.

Am giving glory to God by not hAving children becAuse I M making my heAlth a priority. When we look.after.ourselves and not be harsh on ourselves we 're being kind and self compassionate which is Christian

 

[Junia]

I can't think of anything biblical that would suggest sterilization is an automatic sin. Unless one has had some kind of personal revelation from God suggesting otherwise for his/her life. I have heard certain faith systems are against any kind of sterilization steps but most don't seem to be.

Some doctors used to refuse to perform such procedures if a woman had just 1 or 2 kids. Doctors would cite circumstances like -what if her kid's died- what is she remarried--I heard of one lady who lied to her doctor and said she had already had 3 abortions just so he would give in and perform a tubular ligation. She was married with two kids and did not want more.

I know an older Christian gentleman who knew that children were not for him from a young age. Period. Dot. He wasn't even married and he had himself sterilized. He did eventually marry but neither cared for kiddos.

No matter what I'd be sure that I was sure- mentally, emotionally, spiritually and even physically. Do take into account the hormonal compilations that come with extreme interference with the reproductive system. Hormonal imbalances can cause havoc on one's whole system.

I

As someone with severe level PCOS with all the added complications with it, I understand but the birth control pills stoped me bleeding to point of haemorrhage for months in end and the migraines and PMS that went with it.

I guess PCOS may be a poor example.because PCOS is usually genetic.

if my being o n the pill causes abortions when or if I marry it would be an uni intentional sin. I deliberately haven't researched if the BC pill am on causes abortions or not becAuse it I found out it did i would know aNd then I may be found guilty of sinning against my conscience if I don't stop taking it....we are told in Bible we can eat any foods and not ask whether they were offered to idols for this same reason. I have a very hypersensitive conscience, as in OCD issues, serious ones, so for me I stay away from asking where my things came from or if they are bad and just rely on God to tell me if He wants me to know that


l

 

[Junia]

I think If a woman on the BC pill is married and the pill is causing her to abort without knowing it that is tragic. But it is not deliberate sin because she wasn't aware and God does not hold sins done in ignorance against us, as far as I know...not if we been born again

so salvation status not affected if this woman is a christian. Loss of rewards maybe? I wouldn't like to say as only God knows

 

[chevyontheriver]

I

As someone with severe level PCOS with all the added complications with it, I understand but the birth control pills stoped me bleeding to point of haemorrhage for months in end and the migraines and PMS that went with it.

I guess PCOS may be a poor example.because PCOS is usually genetic.

if my being o n the pill causes abortions when or if I marry it would be an uni intentional sin. I deliberately haven't researched if the BC pill am on causes abortions or not becAuse it I found out it did i would know aNd then I may be found guilty of sinning against my conscience if I don't stop taking it....we are told in Bible we can eat any foods and not ask whether they were offered to idols for this same reason. I have a very hypersensitive conscience, as in OCD issues, serious ones, so for me I stay away from asking where my things came from or if they are bad and just rely on God to tell me if He wants me to know that

If the contraceptives are the best treatment for your condition there is no moral problem with that treatment. You are right that if you marry and have sexual relations it would be an unintentional sin. But you might consider a second opinion from a NaProTechnology doctor. They specialize in non-hormonal and Catholic approved medical care and have been able to do astounding things in fertility treatment. They may be able to suggest something for you that would work well too. NaProTECHNOLOGY— A Major Breakthrough In Monitoring and Maintaining a Woman's Reproductive and Gynecological Health

 

[chevyontheriver]

I think If a woman on the BC pill is married and the pill is causing her to abort without knowing it that is tragic. But it is not deliberate sin because she wasn't aware and God does not hold sins done in ignorance against us, as far as I know...not if we been born again

so salvation status not affected if this woman is a christian. Loss of rewards maybe? I wouldn't like to say as only God knows

And yet once they know how those pills work, they know.

The old pills worked through massive but ultimately unsafe doses of hormones to stop ovulation. The newer pills use far less hormone. There mechanism is to reduce ovulation, but then to reduce implantation when ovulation and conception happen, and then to cause a miscarriage if implantation occurs. They can be considered to cause abortion because they really do not stop or intend to stop all ovulation.

 

[com7fy8]

After all I am not sure tubal ligation can be reversed

I did a quick Net check. They can remove the block and reattach the tubes. It costs thousands of dollars for surgery, anesthesia, and fertility testing. Also, the health of the patient is an issue, for if the person can do well with surgery. And if there were conditions which were considered reason to tie the tubes, these conditions could still be an issue.

My opinion is . . . pray and feed on God's word. See however He does heal you, emotionally because of how you benefit from His word and prayer. Discover how you can love with various Christian people. I would not concentrate your attention only or mainly on getting married with someone who might connect with you for marriage, but share with more mature people and couples so you can discover how to love various people while you are sharing with God. This loving will effect your health and personality. God is gentle and kind, but almighty >

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

Loving others as ourselves does go both ways though. If we love ourselves in the right way we will prioritise our health overhanging children.

It is more blessed to give. As we love others, we do benefit more than they might! God's love does us such great good, while we live in His love. And you can read and feed on what His word says about this, and by listening to sermons. Any part of God's word and a good sermon, especially, can help you, somehow. Even in case you are listening to a preacher who is not really of God, still God can use what the person says, with God's meaning of it. But a preacher whom you know personally can be very good, if the person is feeding you good example.

But there is risk with sharing with other people. But in dealing with real people, we can become more and more strong and sensible in love. And this can help us against bipolar stuff.

My opinion is that any of us are at risk of becoming bipolar in some way. I mean how any of us could get nasty and upset and downcast and out of sorts because we don't get our own way. We are at risk of having treasure pleasures, and wanting control so we can have our treasured comfort pleasures. So, I prepare in prayer so people can not use things to get power over me > "I will not be brought under the power of any," our Apostle Paul says in 1 Corinthians 6:12.

While we are seeking comfort pleasures and control, this can help to keep us weak so our personalities can give in to various chaotic stuff. Worry is horrible, a pathological lier and so abusive. Unforgiveness can wreak havoc in us. So, don't feel like you are the only one with trouble stuff in you! Ones might be feeling great while they are living so-called normal lives, but if they are living for themselves, they are in weakness so things turning on them could turn them into a major mess.

Only with God can we be truly safe.

 

[Junia]

And yet once they know how those pills work, they know.

The old pills worked through massive but ultimately unsafe doses of hormones to stop ovulation. The newer pills use far less hormone. There mechanism is to reduce ovulation, but then to reduce implantation when ovulation and conception happen, and then to cause a miscarriage if implantation occurs. They can be considered to cause abortion because they really do not stop or intend to stop all ovulation.

that is why it is best not to know..then can't be sinning

 

[Junia]

I did a quick Net check. They can remove the block and reattach the tubes. It costs thousands of dollars for surgery, anesthesia, and fertility testing. Also, the health of the patient is an issue, for if the person can do well with surgery. And if there were conditions which were considered reason to tie the tubes, these conditions could still be an issue.

My opinion is . . . pray and feed on God's word. See however He does heal you, emotionally because of how you benefit from His word and prayer. Discover how you can love with various Christian people. I would not concentrate your attention only or mainly on getting married with someone who might connect with you for marriage, but share with more mature people and couples so you can discover how to love various people while you are sharing with God. This loving will effect your health and personality. God is gentle and kind, but almighty >

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

It is more blessed to give. As we love others, we do benefit more than they might! God's love does us such great good, while we live in His love. And you can read and feed on what His word says about this, and by listening to sermons. Any part of God's word and a good sermon, especially, can help you, somehow. Even in case you are listening to a preacher who is not really of God, still God can use what the person says, with God's meaning of it. But a preacher whom you know personally can be very good, if the person is feeding you good example.

But there is risk with sharing with other people. But in dealing with real people, we can become more and more strong and sensible in love. And this can help us against bipolar stuff.

My opinion is that any of us are at risk of becoming bipolar in some way. I mean how any of us could get nasty and upset and downcast and out of sorts because we don't get our own way. We are at risk of having treasure pleasures, and wanting control so we can have our treasured comfort pleasures. So, I prepare in prayer so people can not use things to get power over me > "I will not be brought under the power of any," our Apostle Paul says in 1 Corinthians 6:12.

While we are seeking comfort pleasures and control, this can help to keep us weak so our personalities can give in to various chaotic stuff. Worry is horrible, a pathological lier and so abusive. Unforgiveness can wreak havoc in us. So, don't feel like you are the only one with trouble stuff in you! Ones might be feeling great while they are living so-called normal lives, but if they are living for themselves, they are in weakness so things turning on them could turn them into a major mess.

Only with God can we be truly safe.

I

It isn't seeking comfort but seeking healing from mysterious suicidal mental illness. I spend my time having physiotherapy so I can walk again, having intense psychotherapy and ministry.so I can function without self harming and in 12 step groups.for my addiction issues.

Where do I have time to do all that and have time to have a child???

Why is it ok for a woman with downs syndrome or something to be exempt from childbearing??? MY issues are just as.crippling

And my issues are caused by brain injury and other things not by just.comforting myself too much..

I am in constant pain and need help walking Round. I am in assisted living home. IF I have kids I'd lose my assistance cheques

 

[Junia]

I did a quick Net check. They can remove the block and reattach the tubes. It costs thousands of dollars for surgery, anesthesia, and fertility testing. Also, the health of the patient is an issue, for if the person can do well with surgery. And if there were conditions which were considered reason to tie the tubes, these conditions could still be an issue.

My opinion is . . . pray and feed on God's word. See however He does heal you, emotionally because of how you benefit from His word and prayer. Discover how you can love with various Christian people. I would not concentrate your attention only or mainly on getting married with someone who might connect with you for marriage, but share with more mature people and couples so you can discover how to love various people while you are sharing with God. This loving will effect your health and personality. God is gentle and kind, but almighty >

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

It is more blessed to give. As we love others, we do benefit more than they might! God's love does us such great good, while we live in His love. And you can read and feed on what His word says about this, and by listening to sermons. Any part of God's word and a good sermon, especially, can help you, somehow. Even in case you are listening to a preacher who is not really of God, still God can use what the person says, with God's meaning of it. But a preacher whom you know personally can be very good, if the person is feeding you good example.

But there is risk with sharing with other people. But in dealing with real people, we can become more and more strong and sensible in love. And this can help us against bipolar stuff.

My opinion is that any of us are at risk of becoming bipolar in some way. I mean how any of us could get nasty and upset and downcast and out of sorts because we don't get our own way. We are at risk of having treasure pleasures, and wanting control so we can have our treasured comfort pleasures. So, I prepare in prayer so people can not use things to get power over me > "I will not be brought under the power of any," our Apostle Paul says in 1 Corinthians 6:12.

While we are seeking comfort pleasures and control, this can help to keep us weak so our personalities can give in to various chaotic stuff. Worry is horrible, a pathological lier and so abusive. Unforgiveness can wreak havoc in us. So, don't feel like you are the only one with trouble stuff in you! Ones might be feeling great while they are living so-called normal lives, but if they are living for themselves, they are in weakness so things turning on them could turn them into a major mess.

Only with God can we be truly safe.

It.isn't about nit having my way


I have brain ddamage

I was abused by my dad a christian minister and other men all my childhood and most of adulthood or until social services took me somewhere safe

Why should I give up my therapy that hope m cope just.so I can have a baby??? Why eNt able bodied people have babies and people like me be exempt?
????


also my baby won't know it's grandparents as my dad can't be around children

 

[Junia]

I did a quick Net check. They can remove the block and reattach the tubes. It costs thousands of dollars for surgery, anesthesia, and fertility testing. Also, the health of the patient is an issue, for if the person can do well with surgery. And if there were conditions which were considered reason to tie the tubes, these conditions could still be an issue.

My opinion is . . . pray and feed on God's word. See however He does heal you, emotionally because of how you benefit from His word and prayer. Discover how you can love with various Christian people. I would not concentrate your attention only or mainly on getting married with someone who might connect with you for marriage, but share with more mature people and couples so you can discover how to love various people while you are sharing with God. This loving will effect your health and personality. God is gentle and kind, but almighty >

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

It is more blessed to give. As we love others, we do benefit more than they might! God's love does us such great good, while we live in His love. And you can read and feed on what His word says about this, and by listening to sermons. Any part of God's word and a good sermon, especially, can help you, somehow. Even in case you are listening to a preacher who is not really of God, still God can use what the person says, with God's meaning of it. But a preacher whom you know personally can be very good, if the person is feeding you good example.

But there is risk with sharing with other people. But in dealing with real people, we can become more and more strong and sensible in love. And this can help us against bipolar stuff.

My opinion is that any of us are at risk of becoming bipolar in some way. I mean how any of us could get nasty and upset and downcast and out of sorts because we don't get our own way. We are at risk of having treasure pleasures, and wanting control so we can have our treasured comfort pleasures. So, I prepare in prayer so people can not use things to get power over me > "I will not be brought under the power of any," our Apostle Paul says in 1 Corinthians 6:12.

While we are seeking comfort pleasures and control, this can help to keep us weak so our personalities can give in to various chaotic stuff. Worry is horrible, a pathological lier and so abusive. Unforgiveness can wreak havoc in us. So, don't feel like you are the only one with trouble stuff in you! Ones might be feeling great while they are living so-called normal lives, but if they are living for themselves, they are in weakness so things turning on them could turn them into a major mess.

Only with God can we be truly safe.

I

I do give. I give to homeless people and animal rescue.

I have animals. I am spiritually a mother because I care.for them

Having a child.could.kill me.

I am into animals. Not into children much

Am not interested in Washing nappies.

God made me to have.other interests

 

[com7fy8]

Where do I have time to do all that and have time to have a child???

I offer you that I am not trying to push you to have children.

And I understand what you are explaining, I think.

And thank you for sharing such personal things with us.

And now you have us praying for you.

And God is committed to making prayer work; so we now can discover how God will do things with us.

God bless you howsoever He pleases

By the way . . . all of us have impossible things to deal with. Plus, now that we have become adopted to be in God's family, we also have adopted one another's problems!!

 

[Junia]

I did a quick Net check. They can remove the block and reattach the tubes. It costs thousands of dollars for surgery, anesthesia, and fertility testing. Also, the health of the patient is an issue, for if the person can do well with surgery. And if there were conditions which were considered reason to tie the tubes, these conditions could still be an issue.

My opinion is . . . pray and feed on God's word. See however He does heal you, emotionally because of how you benefit from His word and prayer. Discover how you can love with various Christian people. I would not concentrate your attention only or mainly on getting married with someone who might connect with you for marriage, but share with more mature people and couples so you can discover how to love various people while you are sharing with God. This loving will effect your health and personality. God is gentle and kind, but almighty >

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

It is more blessed to give. As we love others, we do benefit more than they might! God's love does us such great good, while we live in His love. And you can read and feed on what His word says about this, and by listening to sermons. Any part of God's word and a good sermon, especially, can help you, somehow. Even in case you are listening to a preacher who is not really of God, still God can use what the person says, with God's meaning of it. But a preacher whom you know personally can be very good, if the person is feeding you good example.

But there is risk with sharing with other people. But in dealing with real people, we can become more and more strong and sensible in love. And this can help us against bipolar stuff.

My opinion is that any of us are at risk of becoming bipolar in some way. I mean how any of us could get nasty and upset and downcast and out of sorts because we don't get our own way. We are at risk of having treasure pleasures, and wanting control so we can have our treasured comfort pleasures. So, I prepare in prayer so people can not use things to get power over me > "I will not be brought under the power of any," our Apostle Paul says in 1 Corinthians 6:12.

While we are seeking comfort pleasures and control, this can help to keep us weak so our personalities can give in to various chaotic stuff. Worry is horrible, a pathological lier and so abusive. Unforgiveness can wreak havoc in us. So, don't feel like you are the only one with trouble stuff in you! Ones might be feeling great while they are living so-called normal lives, but if they are living for themselves, they are in weakness so things turning on them could turn them into a major mess.

Only with God can we be truly safe.

If you are born again you are accepted m God for heaven anyway

so why not live a life of sorting out my heAlth and enjoying some hobbies which allow me t give pleasure to others and myself and then go to heaven when I die

I mean I could be a preacher or something. do something like teach Sunday school. Why fOr I do those things instead
??
f

those are things I find interesting....children are cute but they require a lot of energy and am middle aged now...late 30s. I don't mind e babysitting and hanging out with children but I wouldn't enjoy motherhood as it very hard work

I like to get 8 hours sleep a night..and have time to do some ministry with my women s ministry online

 

[com7fy8]

Why should I give up my therapy that hope m cope just.so I can have a baby??? Why eNt able bodied people have babies and people like me be exempt?
????


also my baby won't know it's grandparents as my dad can't be around children

Like I offer > I do not mean you are supposed to have a baby.

But I suppose that is not a good policy, to stop helping you even if you did have a child. But I would say yes do what is good for your care.

Even so - - - we are family in Jesus; so we have adopted a bigger family. So, a child can have various good grandparents, if not their natural ones. So, having legally forbidden grandparents would not be a reason. A child could have all the good and Christian ones around you for bringing up a child. So, I say having bad family members, by itself, would not be a reason not to have a child. The child can know the good ones who have helped you But I certainly do not agree that you must be obligated to have a child. Be prayerfully careful about who you listen to . . . including me, of course. God will give you better than you or I or others can.

But . . . also . . . while we might be physically damaged, we can spiritually be more in God's peace, as we grow in Jesus.

 

[Junia]

Thanks.. You are very kind...I believer much in at Augustine's theology that when we enjoy ourselves God enjoys the things we enjoy with us

 

[com7fy8]

I don't mind e babysitting and hanging out with children but I wouldn't enjoy motherhood as it very hard work

Helping others who already have children can be very good . . . bearing one another's burdens > Galatians 6:2.