Where in the Bible does it say these are sins?? Confused...

[Pavel Mosko]

@WrappedUpinHisLove3 Because the "Be fruitful and multiply was one of the first commandments given to humanity" is the reasoning. This of course is balanced by Jesus in the NT admitting that some people are "born" eunuchs or become eunuchs.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I

But I am not concerned with what a pastor might preach on it, I want to know where 're the scripture verses to back it up?

Saying something is wrong without scriptural backing to it seems a bit odd to me...why are more rules? We already have God's word!

Well I didn't go into the Scriptures because if you go back far enough even in your own denomination it's there. But the problem is more with the total acceptance of the contrary making it almost impossible to see. That's why I mentioned the unanimous position against contraception and sterilization, for the shock value, in hopes that you might be surprised and look deeper for yourself.

If you want the whole scoop on this I refer you to two LONG books edited by Janet Smith. First is 'Why Humanae Vitae Was Right'. The second is 'Why Humanae Vitae Is Still Right'. Long but hitting the issues from all angles. Might satisfy you.

I don't have a proof-text on sterilization. I would think we shouldn't be mutilating our bodies though, designed by God, as if His design for our bodies was flawed.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I don't have a proof-text on sterilization. I would think we shouldn't be mutilating our bodies though, designed by God, as if His design for our bodies was flawed.

And if it saves the mum who might otherwise die if she got pregnant?

 

[NerdGirl]

I was reading another thread on CF just now from a woman who is pondering the question of children with her husband but she says she has alwAys had stronger desire to adopt .she says her church told her that adopting children or having tubal ligation/sterilisation is sinning against God

I have heard these opinions before from Christians but am a bit confused because I cAnnot find any scripture referring to either of these matters?

Are there any scriptures on these topics at all, have I just missed them. Am curious because I never felt led by the Lord to be a mother and if I marry when am recovered enough from my issues I was pondering sterilisation. I am not keen on idea of taking a birth control pills that may be abortificent, stopping embryos from implanting.

I cAnnot understAnd why adoption would be considered wrong biblicLy? Wasn't Esther technicAlly brought up by her uncle? Moses was adopted.

There is absolutely NO Scripture that commands a woman to have biological children, or says that it's a sin not to. Children are spoken of as a blessing, and that is what they are. If a couple decides not to have biological children, for whatever reason, that is perfectly fine. Period. If a couple wants to be foster parents, that's fine. If a couple wants to adopt, that's fine, too. It's nobody's business but theirs and God's.

The idea that birth control is sinful is not supported by Scripture. It's usually something you hear from the Catholic church.

For a person who doesn't feel prepared for parenthood, or someone who doesn't want to have biological children or maybe who has medical concerns where they want to avoid a risky pregnancy, to make them feel that they're sinning by being responsible enough to not bring an unwanted, innocent child into the world... is absolutely absurd.

 

[HappyHope]

I was reading another thread on CF just now from a woman who is pondering the question of children with her husband but she says she has alwAys had stronger desire to adopt .she says her church told her that adopting children or having tubal ligation/sterilisation is sinning against God

I have heard these opinions before from Christians but am a bit confused because I cAnnot find any scripture referring to either of these matters?

Are there any scriptures on these topics at all, have I just missed them. Am curious because I never felt led by the Lord to be a mother and if I marry when am recovered enough from my issues I was pondering sterilisation. I am not keen on idea of taking a birth control pills that may be abortificent, stopping embryos from implanting.

I cAnnot understAnd why adoption would be considered wrong biblicLy? Wasn't Esther technicAlly brought up by her uncle? Moses was adopted.

I can't think of anything biblical that would suggest sterilization is an automatic sin. Unless one has had some kind of personal revelation from God suggesting otherwise for his/her life. I have heard certain faith systems are against any kind of sterilization steps but most don't seem to be.

Some doctors used to refuse to perform such procedures if a woman had just 1 or 2 kids. Doctors would cite circumstances like -what if her kid's died- what is she remarried--I heard of one lady who lied to her doctor and said she had already had 3 abortions just so he would give in and perform a tubular ligation. She was married with two kids and did not want more.

I know an older Christian gentleman who knew that children were not for him from a young age. Period. Dot. He wasn't even married and he had himself sterilized. He did eventually marry but neither cared for kiddos.

No matter what I'd be sure that I was sure- mentally, emotionally, spiritually and even physically. Do take into account the hormonal compilations that come with extreme interference with the reproductive system. Hormonal imbalances can cause havoc on one's whole system.

 

[Sabertooth]

If I go to hell for it so be it!

If you have been Born-Again, sterilization/using contraception (with a clear conscience) will not send you to hell.

Leaning on your own, natural wisdom, however, will make the ride way more bumpier than it needs to be...

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart,

And lean not on your own understanding;​

In all your ways acknowledge Him,

And He shall direct your paths." Proverbs 3:5-6 NKJV​

 

[Sabertooth]

Also FYI, tubal ligations increase the risk of an ectopic pregnancy.

 

[com7fy8]

she says her church told her that adopting children or having tubal ligation/sterilisation is sinning against God

She could be part right . . . about sterilization, but part wrong, about adoption.

About physically altering yourself so you can't have children >

God is going to have you grow as a person, if you have trusted in Christ. So, I do not think it is wise to make major choices now about what you will be capable of doing later. My Biblical issue about your body alteration thing is we need to be submitting to how God guides us, and not guiding ourselves > Proverbs 3:5-6. You should not be assuming you will later be how you are now. God knows His plan for you.

But yes you can use your troubles to help you feel for others.

And about adoption > if you are capable of having children, why would you want to take an adoptable child away from someone who is physically unable to have children? A Biblical issue with this could be that we love others as ourselves, and therefore we would not take what should go to someone else.

I alwAys tell People when they ask me, I say "I can't have kids". It doesn't feel like am telling a lie when I say it. It feels.real

As I meant, above, this is how you are now. In Jesus we grow and develop into people very unlike when we started as children of God. So, I would not hurry to now plan for the person you could become just a year, even, from now, never mind when you might be fifty years older!

Yes that would make sense! In my case I won't adopt either...aside from my severe disabilities , even if in were able bodied I have never felt called.to motherhood alwAys been more career focused and not nurturing. unless.it is to animals . Am just a bit unfeminine I guess

Again . . . this is speaking for how you are now.

However in the case of the thread that sparked this one the lady felt a call just to adopt. She feels maybe called to .motherhood and only considered steri!fixation because of her bipolar disorder. But she feels a strong call to adopt.

Well, if being bipolar is not good for bearing children, it also could be a problem for bringing up adopted children with good example. The bipolar personality could effect any children. But does this mean not to have children? I think God is able to have you develop, and to have children develop with you, if He wants you to have them . . . adopted or born from you.

I think I'm her case ?God may have out that desire in her heart to adopt because bipolar disorder medications and pregnancy don't mix well . so she would suit adoption better?

Like I offered above, bipolar stuff could be not good for any child. But God is able to develop your personality more and more to be like Jesus. Read your Bible, about how we become inside ourselves because of Christ and how He has us sharing with God and relating with people. And trust God to change you like this. Do not depend on yourself, or your trying, but trust God simply.

I have had a hard life in some ways although also very blessed. I just feel it is time for me to just make some space to enjoy relaxing with God and finding out what make me feel happy Nd fulfilled.

With God, you won't just feel blessed, you will be. And, like I say, read His word and claim all we have about how God has us become in His love. And this will make you clear in an encouraging way.

A bit desire of mine is to expand on my desire to help other abused women with mental health insurance freedom....it feels a strong call.for me

Yes we can help others out of our own experience > 2 Corinthians 1:3-4.

And if they are salvation issues then well 99% of the church is doomed anyway and at least we will all be roasting happily together in the lake of fire

Please > I just enjoyed some spit roasted chicken. I don't want any humans roasting!!!!!!!

Oh, am craving some bAcon now!! Lol

spit roasted chicken is fine with me

 

[Cis.jd]

I was reading another thread on CF just now from a woman who is pondering the question of children with her husband but she says she has alwAys had stronger desire to adopt .she says her church told her that adopting children or having tubal ligation/sterilisation is sinning against God

I have heard these opinions before from Christians but am a bit confused because I cAnnot find any scripture referring to either of these matters?

Are there any scriptures on these topics at all, have I just missed them. Am curious because I never felt led by the Lord to be a mother and if I marry when am recovered enough from my issues I was pondering sterilisation. I am not keen on idea of taking a birth control pills that may be abortificent, stopping embryos from implanting.

I cAnnot understAnd why adoption would be considered wrong biblicLy? Wasn't Esther technicAlly brought up by her uncle? Moses was adopted.

There isn't anything in the Bible. Her church is just crazy.

 

[Strong in Him]

I was reading another thread on CF just now from a woman who is pondering the question of children with her husband but she says she has alwAys had stronger desire to adopt .she says her church told her that adopting children or having tubal ligation/sterilisation is sinning against God

Neither are wrong.
I would want to ask that church why they taught that they are wrong and on what Scriptural evidence.

 

[Norbert L]

I haven't seen either proclaimed a sin. Not sure how one justifies it.

Medically unnecessary sterilization is not a spelled-out sin.
I believe that it falls under 1 Corinthians 10:23,

"All things are lawful for me,

but not all things are helpful;​

all things are lawful for me,

but not all things edify."​

IOW, just because you CAN do something doesn't mean that it is a good or healthy idea to do so...

(Smoking tobacco is not forbidden in the Bible, but that turned out to be a really bad idea.)

I

Ok but isn't sterilisation a form of family planning? Or is only naturAl family planning like rhythm method endorsed in Bible?

Hello @WrappedUpinHisLove3, adoption is not a sin Biblically, period. The only bit of conjecture I have about this is that 1. she misunderstood her church somehow or 2. they believe it necessary for their congregants to strictly adhere to Genesis 1:28 before choosing to adopt.

As for sterilization being sinful, they could be looking at verses like Deuteronomy 23:1, I suppose (though you would have to bend the meaning of that verse a bit to make it fit their presupposition I would think).

--David

There is absolutely NO Scripture that commands a woman to have biological children, or says that it's a sin not to. Children are spoken of as a blessing, and that is what they are. If a couple decides not to have biological children, for whatever reason, that is perfectly fine. Period. If a couple wants to be foster parents, that's fine. If a couple wants to adopt, that's fine, too. It's nobody's business but theirs and God's.

The idea that birth control is sinful is not supported by Scripture. It's usually something you hear from the Catholic church.

For a person who doesn't feel prepared for parenthood, or someone who doesn't want to have biological children or maybe who has medical concerns where they want to avoid a risky pregnancy, to make them feel that they're sinning by being responsible enough to not bring an unwanted, innocent child into the world... is absolutely absurd.

The scriptures that I have heard used to explain that birth control is a sin is Genesis 38:8-10. It's not a literal thou shalt not commit birth control, but the implication is there. Basically Onan was preventing the conception of a child while still having sex, he was put to death.

 

[Sabertooth]

The scriptures that I have heard used to explain that birth control is a sin is Genesis 38:8-10. It's not a literal thou shalt not commit birth control, but the implication is there. Basically Onan was preventing the conception of a child while still having sex, he was put to death.

There were so many surrounding circumstances that it could not taken as a clear and universal prohibition. If so, it would also apply to everybody who successfully used NFP as contraception. For such deliberately refrain from sex when they believe that she can become pregnant (whether they succeed or not).

(For the record, NFP & "Onanism" [a.k.a. the withdrawal method] are equally as effective/ineffective as the other.)

 

[Carl Emerson]

The scriptures that I have heard used to explain that birth control is a sin is Genesis 38:8-10. It's not a literal thou shalt not commit birth control, but the implication is there. Basically Onan was preventing the conception of a child while still having sex, he was put to death.

In context the issue is more about Onan not honouring his father.

 

[Sabertooth]

In context the issue is more about Onan not honouring his father.

(...and that he was supposed to propagate the tribe that Jesus was to arise from.)

 

[coffee4u]

I was reading another thread on CF just now from a woman who is pondering the question of children with her husband but she says she has alwAys had stronger desire to adopt .she says her church told her that adopting children or having tubal ligation/sterilisation is sinning against God

I have heard these opinions before from Christians but am a bit confused because I cAnnot find any scripture referring to either of these matters?

Are there any scriptures on these topics at all, have I just missed them. Am curious because I never felt led by the Lord to be a mother and if I marry when am recovered enough from my issues I was pondering sterilisation. I am not keen on idea of taking a birth control pills that may be abortificent, stopping embryos from implanting.

I cAnnot understAnd why adoption would be considered wrong biblicLy? Wasn't Esther technicAlly brought up by her uncle? Moses was adopted.

You have 3 different things here.
Adoption: I know of no verses against that. Jesus was clear that chidlren should be looked after.
Psalm 68:5 says, “Father of the fatherless and protector of widows, is God in his holy habitation.”

Deuteronomy 10:18 "He ensures that orphans and widows receive justice. He shows love to the foreigners living among you and gives them food and clothing."
I would think being able to adopt would be a blessing for both the parents and chidlren.

Tubal ligation/sterilisation:
Could be a gray area. If a man or a women got sterlized against their partner's wishes that could be seen as sinning. Like when Onan purposely "spilled his seed on the ground" to ensure Tamar did not get pregant.
If on the other hand the parents have been warned not to risk any more pregnancies or can't afford anymore or they have known genetic conditions I don't see that as sinning. Far too many children are born into homes where they don't/can't take care of them.

Abortion:
Always killing. Many women have taken birth control that may be an abortificent unknowingly or knowingly.

 

[Junia]

I guess sterilisation doesn't honour God per second but it is self care and that is something God is ok with he wants us to look after our health and be kind to ourselves

 

[Junia]

We are called to move others as we love ourselves God approves of our self love

 

[Junia]

If we don't look after ourselves how can we look after others?? Make self care a priority . I think that is common sense and wise

 

[SeventyOne]

The scriptures that I have heard used to explain that birth control is a sin is Genesis 38:8-10. It's not a literal thou shalt not commit birth control, but the implication is there. Basically Onan was preventing the conception of a child while still having sex, he was put to death.

I wouldn't agree with anyone who tries to use those verses against birth control. It states right in that passage why the Lord was mad, and that wasn't it. Thanks for the response.

 

[chevyontheriver]

In context the issue is more about Onan not honouring his father.

Except that there are others in the Torah who are related and do not marry her and do not die. He went through the motions and was killed. The Biblical penalty for refusing a Levirate marriage is real but small. It is not a death sentence.