Where does the atheist/humanist get their morality from?

Ken-1122

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Could you point out for me, Ken, where in the New Testament a "dictatorial elite" is encouraged?!

Galatians 3:27 "All baptised in Christ, you have all clothed yourself in Christ and there are no more distinctions between Jew and Greek,slave and free, male and female, but all of you are one in Christ Jesus."

Acts 4:32 "And the congregation of those who believed were of one heart and soul; and not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own; but all things were common property to them."
All over the new and old Testament your dictatorial elite (God) demands worship. Do you agree?

Ken
 
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madaz

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This is a question for atheists and humanists...

I count eight questions.

Where do you get your ideas about what is right and what is wrong from?

My mind, upbringing, society, communication with others, conscience, the same "place" everyone else does.

Who gets to decide this for society?

Everyone. I live in a free country.

What's makes your morality more moral than mine?

Sorry I dont know anything about your morals to compare with mine.

Where does the conscience come from?

The brain of course.

Whose to decide who's conscience is 'correct'?
I do just the same as you do.

What's to stop the 'elite' deciding that, under 'survival of the fittest', they are more than justified to dominate the rest of us?

Probably failure of the imagination.

Why does every society under 'humanism' decay (and yet the Judeo-Christian ethic remains as strong as ever)?

That is arrogant, offensive and disingenuous, but most of all a loaded question.

Isn't the logical conclusion of a 'humanist' society built on the principles of Darwinism, one of domination by a dictatorial elite?

Another arrogant, offensive, disingenuous, but most of all a loaded question.


I should have read your questions before I started to answer them, they are not sincere questions, they are loaded questions used as rhetorical tool to slander.

Now that you have clearly demonstrated your dubious character, I will make an informed comment on your morality. You sir are fallacious, disrespectful and slanderous.

Shame on you.
 
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steve_bakr

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lisah said:
How is Christianity not a "survival of the fittest" theology?

I mean, what with hell and all . . .

Christianity is not "survival of the fittest." Anyone may respond to God's free gift of Salvation. Also, Jesus taught love and compassion for the poor and weak in society.
 
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Dave Ellis

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Christianity is not "survival of the fittest." Anyone may respond to God's free gift of Salvation. Also, Jesus taught love and compassion for the poor and weak in society.


However, those that are unfit will not accept the gift, and not survive.

Jesus also taught that those who do not follow him will be gathered up like twigs, thrown into a fire and burned.... That sounds like something the Nazis would do.
 
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steve_bakr

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Dave Ellis said:
However, those that are unfit will not accept the gift, and not survive.

Jesus also taught that those who do not follow him will be gathered up like twigs, thrown into a fire and burned.... That sounds like something the Nazis would do.

Hi Dave,

Scripture uses a lot of metaphorical language. The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) calls heaven more of a state of being than an actual place. So it follows that hell is also a state of being, which is separation from communion with God. No one goes into that state without choosing to do so.

The Catholic Church also teaches that people who for reasons of culture, upbringing or simple pathology are not able to believe the Gospel of Christ, still have the possibiity of eternal life, primarily based on the content of their heart, because God is merciful and grace is far-reaching. What, then, about the atheist?

According to Catholicism, if an atheist lives life pursuing good, and has purity of heart, it is possible even for that person to be saved.

As to the question of where does the athiest get his moral values, since God endows all human beings with a conscience, it is entirely possible for an atheist to have a good moral conscience.
 
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selfinflikted

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Hi Dave,

Scripture uses a lot of metaphorical language. The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) calls heaven more of a state of being than an actual place. So it follows that hell is also a state of being, which is separation from communion with God. No one goes into that state without choosing to do so.

The Catholic Church also teaches that people who for reasons of culture, upbringing or simple pathology are not able to believe the Gospel of Christ, still have the possibiity of eternal life, primarily based on the content of their heart, because God is merciful and grace is far-reaching. What, then, about the atheist?

According to Catholicism, if an atheist lives life pursuing good, and has purity of heart, it is possible for even for that person to be saved.

It all depends on which brand of Christian you ask, doesn't it? Many, many Christians believe that only faith, not works or what is in ones "heart", will grant eternal life in heaven (also, a place depending on who you ask).
 
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steve_bakr

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selfinflikted said:
It all depends on which brand of Christian you ask, doesn't it? Many, many Christians believe that only faith, not works or what is in ones "heart", will grant eternal life in heaven (also, a place depending on who you ask).

You're right, not all Christians have the same view on this matter. I was only pointing out the Catholic perspective.
 
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Dave Ellis

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Hi Dave,

Scripture uses a lot of metaphorical language. The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) calls heaven more of a state of being than an actual place. So it follows that hell is also a state of being, which is separation from communion with God. No one goes into that state without choosing to do so.

The Catholic Church also teaches that people who for reasons of culture, upbringing or simple pathology are not able to believe the Gospel of Christ, still have the possibiity of eternal life, primarily based on the content of their heart, because God is merciful and grace is far-reaching. What, then, about the atheist?

According to Catholicism, if an atheist lives life pursuing good, and has purity of heart, it is possible even for that person to be saved.

As to the question of where does the athiest get his moral values, since God endows all human beings with a conscience, it is entirely possible for an atheist to have a good moral conscience.


I don't dispute that at all.

However, the problem is many other Christians, who use the same holy book as the Catholics, don't agree with those viewpoints, and can justify them using the bible.

A great quote is that the bible is the ultimate book of multiple choice. You can find a verse in there to justify just about anything or any viewpoint you want.
 
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steve_bakr

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Dave Ellis said:
I don't dispute that at all.

However, the problem is many other Christians, who use the same holy book as the Catholics, don't agree with those viewpoints, and can justify them using the bible.

A great quote is that the bible is the ultimate book of multiple choice. You can find a verse in there to justify just about anything or any viewpoint you want.

Yes, other Christians have a different POV, but the Catholic Church has had 2,000 years to realize the fullness of the Christian faith and its interpretation of Scripture reflects that.
 
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Dave Ellis

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Yes, other Christians have a different POV, but the Catholic Church has had 2,000 years to realize the fullness of the Christian faith and its interpretation of Scripture reflects that.


So has every other Christian church, as they are all offshoots of Catholicism.
 
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steve_bakr

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Dave Ellis said:
So has every other Christian church, as they are all offshoots of Catholicism.

That would bring up the subject of the differences between Catholicism and Protestantism, and of the Reformation, which is not in the purview of this thread. I was trying to express the Catholic POV. It would be for other Christians to present the view of their churches.
 
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Dave Ellis

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That would bring up the subject of the differences between Catholicism and Protestantism, and of the Reformation, which is not in the purview of this thread. I was trying to express the Catholic POV. It would be for other Christians to present the view of their churches.


That's fair enough. :)
 
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NejTilSvampe

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Plato's Euthyprho dilemma

1. Is what ever god sais moral because god sais so?
2. or is it moral on it's own accord but god is simply informing us of it?

2. If that's the case, then god is not the moral authority, he's simply the mouth piece and we can cut out the middle man and do the moral acts with or without god.
1. If this is the case, then god can change his mind at any given time - thus making morality as arbitrary as you claim morality is without god.

Now, what apologist often respond to this is; "Well it's not in god's nature to do this and that".
This begs the question however to;
1. Did god create his own nature?
2. Or did he not create his own nature?

1. If this is the case, then you're back to that his nature is arbitrary, and therefore morality is arbitrary.
2. If this is the case, then again, god is not the ultimate authority of morality and once again you can cut out the middle-man.
 
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