Where does Saving Faith come from?

[BrotherJJ]

How were the Judaisers severed from Christ & fallen from grace then as Paul states in Galatians 5:4? How can someone fail to abide in Christ as Jesus said in John 15:6?

How do these verses you've asked me about apply to the OP question > Where does saving faith come from?

In short I replied from > Christ. I posted zero verses from John in support of my reply & nothing from Gal 5. JJ

 

[BNR32FAN]

How do these verses you've asked me about apply to the OP question > Where does saving faith come from?

In short I replied from > Christ. I posted zero verses from John in support of my reply & nothing from Gal 5. JJ

Well I’m trying to understand how you hold to the belief that Christ keeps a person from falling away and how you interpret these verses in such a way that coincides with this belief. I think these verses are make a very strong case against your claim. So how do you reconcile these verses to this belief?

 

[BrotherJJ]

Well I’m trying to understand how you hold to the belief that Christ keeps a person from falling away and how you interpret these verses in such a way that coincides with this belief. I think these verses are make a very strong case against your claim. So how do you reconcile these verses to this belief?

The OP question was: Where does Saving Faith come from?

I answered Christ & believe the verses I provided reconcile my belief as to why.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The OP question was: Where does Saving Faith come from?

I answered Christ & believe the verses I provided reconcile my belief as to why.

Yes but our beliefs must line up with all scripture not just some of them right? So when you come across verses like Galatians 5:4 or John 15:6 don’t you stop and think, wait a minute how can this be true if Christ keeps everyone from falling away? I think this is a valid question. Surely you don’t just skip over them.

 

[BrotherJJ]

Yes but our beliefs must line up with all scripture not just some of them right? So when you come across verses like Galatians 5:4 or John 15:6 don’t you stop and think, wait a minute how can this be true if Christ keeps everyone from falling away? I think this is a valid question. Surely you don’t just skip over them.

I stand behind my posted position on where saving faith comes from. I have no interest in debating Gal 5 or Jn 15. I sure you could find many on here that would be interested in that debate. Maybe a thread about that would work. Best wishes, JJ

 

[BNR32FAN]

I stand behind my posted position on where saving faith comes from. I have no interest in debating Gal 5 or Jn 15. I sure you could find many on here that would be interested in that debate. Maybe a thread about that would work. Best wishes, JJ

I don’t disagree that faith comes from God but a saving faith comes from our cooperation with God. God doesn’t give some people a saving faith and others a non-saving faith. He gives us a measure of faith then it’s up to us what we do with it.

 

[bling]

What is your point of this, God's or your own proof positive?

One reason why I feel Christians can quench the Spirit and leave of their own free will and can come back of their own free will.

 

[bling]

God did not choose to save anyone who He knew would humbly accept His forgiveness. That is not what Romans 8:28-30 teaches. It says WHOM He did foreknow(the Greek word is a verb which means God didn’t merely know they would they would be willing, but that He did something, i.e., elected them), not those He knew would be willing He did foreknow.

Ro. 8: 28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

First off: the criteria for “things for the good’ is: “those who love him” and not those He chose or all those He loved.

Those who “Love God” have been called according to His purpose.

Now it talks about God “foreknowing”, but how does He foreknow what a person did in human time?

Certainly, God at the end of time would know historically all choices (free will or not) made by humans throughout time but, since God is outside of time and is omnipresent then God’s existing at the end of time could convey to Himself at the beginning of time all historical choices made by humans. Thus, the God at the beginning of time has perfect unchangeable historic knowledge of all human choices (perfect foreknowledge) of all that humans “will do” in human time.

God at the beginning of time knows all who did Love Him throughout time.

Those who did Love Him where predestined to become like Christ.

These are the individuals God called, justified and glorified.

God Loved them and all individuals first, but only some accepted God’s Love in the form of forgiveness and thus were given as a free gift Godly type Love, since we know “…he that is forgiven much Loves much…”

 

[BBAS 64]

Good Day,

Faith is granted by God to His adopted children... He adopts and grants we are effected by His work for His purposes.

In Him,

Bill

 

[5thKingdom]

It means a person must hear the gospel before they can believe
the gospel.

Of course that IGNORES and REJECTS and CONTRADICTS
what Jesus taught about people who do hear the Gospel
... but were NEVER MEANT to be saved... since they were
NEVER MEANT to "perceive" the Gospel or "understand"
the Gospel or "be converted" by the Gospel or "have their
sins forgiven" by the (particular) Lord's Atonement of Christ.


Mar 4:11-12
And He [Jesus] said unto them [Apostles representing all elect],
Unto you it is given to know the mystery of The kingdom of God: but unto them that are without [the Kingdom of God], all these things
are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; LEST AT ANY TIME they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.


If a "gospel" does not include the Biblical Truth that some men
were NEVER MEANT to "perceive" or "understand" or to
"be converted" or to have "their sins be forgiven them"...
then that "gospel" is NOT the Gospel of the Bible.
It is really as simple as that.


Jim

 

[Brightfame52]

I believe that Saving Faith comes from the Saviour. 2 Pet 1:1

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Those Christ died for He is their Saviour and He allots to them Faith, Precious Faith.

 

[Brightfame52]

Ro. 8: 28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

First off: the criteria for “things for the good’ is: “those who love him” and not those He chose or all those He loved.

Those who “Love God” have been called according to His purpose.

Now it talks about God “foreknowing”, but how does He foreknow what a person did in human time?

Certainly, God at the end of time would know historically all choices (free will or not) made by humans throughout time but, since God is outside of time and is omnipresent then God’s existing at the end of time could convey to Himself at the beginning of time all historical choices made by humans. Thus, the God at the beginning of time has perfect unchangeable historic knowledge of all human choices (perfect foreknowledge) of all that humans “will do” in human time.

God at the beginning of time knows all who did Love Him throughout time.

Those who did Love Him where predestined to become like Christ.

These are the individuals God called, justified and glorified.

God Loved them and all individuals first, but only some accepted God’s Love in the form of forgiveness and thus were given as a free gift Godly type Love, since we know “…he that is forgiven much Loves much…”

Friend I believe that you may be confounding God's omniscience with His Foreknowledge. See God's Foreknowledge has to do with foreknowing a person or persons in a favorable intimate way. He doesn't know all men that way. Remember Jesus will say to some " I never knew you" Of course He knew them in His omniscience, but He never knew them in love and favor, we can also say He never foreloved them in Christ. So Foreknowledge in this regard is about foreknowing people and not their actions.

 

[Brightfame52]

If he truly looks to Christ and is saved, it’s proof he was elect, elected before God said, “Let there be light”. And also Ephesians 1:4. If he truly repents, it’s evidence of being born again(repentance is the result of regeneration not the cause).

I’m just telling him what the Bible says, “repent and believe in the gospel”. If he truly does this, he’s saved. If he doesn’t, he will die lost.

Friend that sounds like salvation by works, by what a person does!

 

[Sovereign Grace]

Friend that sounds like salvation by works, by what a person does!

Nope, sorry. Repentance is the evidence of salvation, not the cause of it.

 

[Brightfame52]

Nope, sorry. Repentance is the evidence of salvation, not the cause of it.

I agree with that statement, because then its understood one was saved prior to repenting.

 

[Dan Perez]

I know it says that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. But what exactly does that mean? Do I just need to hear the Gospel in order to be opened to saving faith? And what if I hear the Gospel but faith and repentance don't come? Is it something God gives me? If so can I ASK for it? And then there's the stumbling block that is James. There is true faith and false faith. What's the difference?

To sum up: Where does SAVING FAITH come from? Is it a gift from God that I can ask for? Does it come from hearing the Gospel?

And: What's the difference between true and false faith?

Hi STommy , and in Acts 16:14 we see that 2mparts of the GODHEAD are seen in verse 14 !!

#1 She worshipped God !!

#3 And the LORD opened her HEART , which is CHRIST !

#4 In Acts 9:6 we see CHRIST , that SAUL / PAUL call Jesus LORD !!

#5 We see from 1 Cor 12:3 that NO ONE can call JESUS , LORD except by the HOLY SPIRIT and we see the GODHEAD involved in salvation !!

#6 We see Christ opens the heart , we from Rom 9:10 that if we confess with our mouth the LORD JESUS and should believe in your HEART ( which the Lord opens up ) and believe that God raised Him from the DEAD , you will be saved !

#7 For with the HEART , HE BLIEVES TO RIGHTEOUSNESS !!

REMEMBER that Paul is the PATTERN for salvation as written in 1 Tim 1:16 !!

dan p

 

[Sovereign Grace]

I agree with that statement, because then its understood one was saved prior to repenting.

Well, I see them happening simultaneously. No unregenerate person can, or will want to, repent. The new birth is not salvation. The new birth is being born from above, and the new birth brings with it the God-given gifts of repentance and faith. And by exercising them, they are saved. And no, this is not a works based salvation, either.

 

[Brightfame52]

Well, I see them happening simultaneously. No unregenerate person can, or will want to, repent. The new birth is not salvation. The new birth is being born from above, and the new birth brings with it the God-given gifts of repentance and faith. And by exercising them, they are saved. And no, this is not a works based salvation, either.

I will disagree the New Birth is Salvation, a Spiritual application of it. 2 Thess 2:13 collaborates that:

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

 

[Sovereign Grace]

I will disagree the New Birth is Salvation, a Spiritual application of it. 2 Thess 2:13 collaborates that:

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

The new birth is being born again, given life. Salvation is being saved from one’s sins. They’re totally separate events, but happen simultaneously.

 

[Brightfame52]

The new birth is being born again, given life. Salvation is being saved from one’s sins. They’re totally separate events, but happen simultaneously.

Salvation is also saved from the power of sin in new birth