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Where do You Draw the Line?

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by HARK!, Nov 26, 2020.

Where do you draw the line?

  1. I belive that all of YHWH's instructions must be honored as they apply.

    11 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. I belive that only those instructions that were quoted in the Gospels are applicable.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. I belive that only those instructions that were quoted in the Gospels , plus the Ten Commandments.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. I belive only those instructions which are quoted in the NT are applicable.

    1 vote(s)
    4.5%
  5. I belive only those instructions which are quoted in the NT, plus the Ten commandments.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. I believe that we are saved by grace; and we can do whatever we want.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Other: explain

    10 vote(s)
    45.5%
  1. Noxot

    Noxot Supporter

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    The law is for children until they come to an understanding of the fullness of the truth. This is a spiritual truth and reality and so it's something that we experience. what it is exactly we experience is based on who we are as a person. Another way of putting it is that God Sets angels over us to teach us.

    The fullness of the life of the spirit is much more then the holy laws in the Bible, which most people don't seem to understand enough anyways whether they are for or against "keeping the law".

    If they are strictly for keeping the law than this means a shallow adherence to words that they largely don't understand as they ought to. But the good in it is that what they do they wish to do for the Lord.

    If they claim they are free from the law... it is so that they may follow the law but they usually mean they have a legalistic interpretation of the law where it is not fulfilled in Christ, of whos members we are, but that rather christ fulfilled it so that they can be free from it so that they can fullfill being in Christ, who completed the law and yet somehow they have nothing to do with it because christ completed it even though they are in Christ and so they're supposed to complete the law in the way that Christ did. And these like the others do fulfill the Spirit of the law as much as they abide in Christ.

    so these two go back and forth fighting each other and they both continuously miss the mark as much as they do and dwell in Christ as much as they do.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2020
  2. Noxot

    Noxot Supporter

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    I will tell you the truth about the fullness of the law. It is the body of Christ. I will tell you the truth about the fullness of the temple of God. We are it. I will tell you about the works of Christ and the knowledge of Christ, It Is Us as much as we are in him and of him.
     
  3. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I really do not understand that statement. We know that God never gave the Laws of the Sinai covenant to Gentiles. In Gal 3 Paul chides the Galatians for going under the Law. They had come to Christ, the truth, by hearing the Word not by keeping the Law. Further into Gal 3 verse 10 Paul starts to write about Jews and the law. Verse 24 is explaining that the law WAS our (the Jews) schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. It was never the Gentile's schoolmaster and now it is not even the Jews schoolmaster.

    Jews were to recognize the fact that all the Law could do is convict and curse them for wrong doing. 25 But after that faith is come, we (Jews) are no longer under a schoolmaster. Verse 19: Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, TILL the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. The promise was made to Israel.
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    1. In Ex 20 God said
    not to worship false Gods,
    not to take God's name in vain,
    not to dishonor parents.
    ... etc
    2. In Eph 6:1-2 Paul reminds us that that commandment not to dishonor parents is "the first commandment with a promise".
    3. In Jer 31:31-34 Jeremiah reminds us that God's Law is written on the heart under the New Covenant

    AND "yet" some will claim that those Ex 20 commands against taking God's name in vain etc "were never given to gentiles."

    In Isaiah 56:6-8 God specifically singles out gentiles for Sabbath keeping blessings.

    AND "yet" some will claim that those Ex 20 commands against taking God's name in vain etc "were never given to gentiles."

    In Isaiah 66:23 God reminds us that for all eternity after the cross "all mankind" (not just gentiles) will be coming before God to worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath" in the New Earth.

    1 Cor 7:19 Paul reminds us "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

    AND "yet" some will claim that those Ex 20 commands against taking God's name in vain etc "were never given to gentiles."

    And as we all know - Paul makes no case at all in Gal 3 for Christians dishonoring parents or taking God's name in vain.

    =============================

    Which illustrates the fact that everyone has free will and can choose to believe whatever they wish.
     
  5. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    There are no examples in the Bible of disobedience to any of God's laws being moral to disobey and the Bible never refers to the subcategory of moral law, so you have no grounds for there being any of God's laws that don't deal with morality, and you have no standard by which to determine which laws deal with morality. Morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to obey God, so all of God's laws inherently deal with morality, and all of God's righteous laws are forever, not just ten of them (Psalms 119:160). Jesus was one of many who fulfilled the law by teaching how to correctly obey it by word and by example. He said that not the least part would disappear from the law until heaven and earth pass away and all is accomplished, both of which are referring to end times, neither of which has happened yet.

    Did Jesus come with the message that the law had ended now that he has come and that people needed to stop repenting, or did he come with the message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand? Galatians 3 should not be interpreted as saying things about what Jesus did that undermine what he actually did.



    In Exodus 12:38, there was a mixed multitude that went up out of Egypt with them, so there were Gentiles at the foot of Sinai. All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law, so it doesn't even make sense to interpret Galatians 3 as Paul chiding Gentiles for obeying God, especially because Paul was not an enemy of God. Paul's problem in Galatians was not with those who were teaching Gentiles to obey God, but with those who were teaching that Gentiles needed to obey their works of the law in order to become saved. The law leads us to Christ because everything in it teaches us about how to have a relationship with him, but does not lead us to Christ so that we can go back to living in sin. The way to follow Christ is not by refusing to follow the law that he spent his ministry teaching us how to follow by word and by example.

    Not even earthly fathers give instructions to their children in order to curse them, but rather they give their children instructions for their own good in order to bless them and to teach them how to rightly live, and this is that much more true for our Heavenly Father (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13). Now that faith has come, we are under a superior teacher, but the subject matter is still how to walk in God's ways in obedience to His law in accordance with what Christ taught by word and by example. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the law, and in Romans 3:31, our faith does not abolish our need to obey God's law, but rather our faith upholds it, so now that faith has come does not mean that our need to obey the law has been abolished, but on the contrary, we uphold the law by our faith.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2020
  6. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    Nowhere does the Bible say that the law is for children until they come to an understanding of the fullness of the truth, but rather it says that God's law is truth (Psalms 119:142), and coming to an understanding of the fullness of the truth does not involve turning away from the truth. The Spirit has the role of leading us in truth (John 16:13), the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law (Ezekiel 36:26-27), and again God's law is truth. In 2 Timothy 3:8, those who oppose Moses also oppose the truth, being of corrupted minds and disqualified in regard to the faith. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God's law. In Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law, while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it. The Mosaic Law was given by God and the Spirit is God, so the Mosaic Law is the Law of the Spirit, and the Spirit does not lead us to do more than the Law of the Spirit.

    "To fulfill the law" means "to cause God's will as made known in His law to be obeyed as it should be” (NAS Greek Lexicon pleroo 2c3). After Jesus said he came to fulfill the law in Matthew 5, he proceeded to fulfill it six times throughout the rest of the chapter by teaching how to correctly obey it or by completing our understanding of it. In Galatians 5:14, loving our neighbor fulfills the entire law, so it refers to something that countless people have done, not to something unique that only Jesus did. In Galatians 6:2, bearing one another's burdens fulfills the Law of Christ, so you should interpret that in the same way as you interpret fulfilling the Law of Moses. We do not fulfill the Law of Christ by bearing one another's burdens so that others can be free from it. In 1 John 2:6, those who abide in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, and he walked in obedience to the Mosaic Law.
     
  7. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENTS ARE ALL MORAL LAWS ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE.

    All of God's 10 commandments including God's 4th commandment Sabbath are moral laws and our duty of love to God and our fellow man.

    Let's look at what the scriptures teach on this subject further....

    PSALMS 119:172 [172] My tongue shall speak of your word: for ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTOUESNESS.< tsedeq RIGHT DOING - MORAL>

    Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong -
    Righteousness H6664; צדק tsedeq; tseh'-dek; From H6663; the right, natural, MORAL or legal); also (abstractly) equity or (figuratively) prosperity: - X even, (X that which is altogether) just (-ice), ([un-]) right (-eous) (cause, -ly, -ness).

    RIGHTEOUSNESS is defined as the standard of MORAL RIGHT in the Hebrew which God’s Word defines as ALL GOD’S COMMANDMENTS. This of course includes God’s 4th commandment which is one of God’s 10 commandments written with the finger of God.

    The opposite of righteousness is unrighteousness as shown in this scripture here…

    1 JOHN 5:17-18 [17] ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS IS SIN: and there is a sin not to death.
    [18], WE KNOW THAT WHOEVER IS BORN OF GOD SINS NOT; but he that is begotten of God keeps himself, and that wicked one touches him not.

    UNRIGHTEOUSNESS in HEBREW (H5766) עול עול עולה עולה עלה ;‛evel ‛âvel ‛avlâh ‛ôlâh ‛ôlâh From H5765; MORAL EVIL: - iniquity, perverseness, unjust (-ly), unrighteousness (-ly), wicked (-ness).

    UNRIGHTEOUSNESS in GREEK (G93) ἀδικία; adikia (legal) injustice (properly the quality, by implication the act); MORAL WRONGFULNESS of charater, life or act: - iniquity, unjust, unrighteousness, wrong.

    ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS (ἀδικία Moral wrongfulness) IS SIN which is breaking any one of God's 10 commandments. UNRIGHTEOUSNESS is the opposite of RIGHTEOUSNESS and ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS is SIN *1 JOHN 5:17 and SIN is breaking any one of God's 10 commandments *JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4 then RIGHTEOUSNESS is OBEDIENCE to God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) as is why it is written;

    PSALMS 119:172 [172] My tongue shall speak of your word: for ALL YOUR COMMANDMENTS ARE *RIGHTEOUSNESS.<Moral Right Doing>

    ROMANS 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does GOOD (good G5544) no, not one.

    Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G5544
    χρηστότης; chrēstotēs From G5543; usefulness, that is, MORAL EXCELLENCE in character or demeanor: - gentleness, good (-ness), kindness.

    1 CORINTHIANS 15:33 Be not deceived: Evil companionship corrupt GOOD MORALS (G2239)

    Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G2239
    ἦθος; ēthos A strengthened form of G1485; usage, that is, (plural) MORAL HABITS: - manners

    ……………..

    Christian bible dictionary definitions agree with the Hebrew and Greek scriptures shown above...

    Webster's Unabridged Dictionary, 1828

    MOR'AL, a. [L. moralis, from mos, moris, manner.]

    1. Relating to the practice, manners or conduct of men as social beings in relation to each other, and with reference to right and wrong. The word moral is applicable to actions that are good or evil, virtuous or vicious, and has reference to the law of God as the standard by which their character is to be determined. The word however may be applied to actions which affect only, or primarily and principally, a person's own happiness. Keep at the least within the compass of moral actions, which have in them vice or virtue. Mankind is broken loose from moral bands.

    2. Subject to the moral law and capable of moral actions; bound to perform social duties; as a moral agent or being.

    3. Supported by the evidence of reason or probability; founded on experience of the ordinary course of things; as moral certainty, distinguished from physical or mathematical certainty or demonstration.

    Physical and mathematical certainty may be stiled infallible, and moral certainty may be properly stiled indubitable.

    Things of a moral nature may be proved by moral arguments.

    4. Conformed to rules of right, or to the divine law respecting social duties; virtuous; just; as when we say, a particular action is not moral.

    5. Conformed to law and right in exterior deportment; as, he leads a good moral life.

    ................

    As shown above through the scriptures RIGHTEOUSNESS means MORAL RIGHT DOING linked to action. "All of God's commandments are righteousness" *Psalms 119:172

    MORE BIBLICAL SUPPORT FOR MORAL LAWS (duty of love towards God and man)

    God’s law written and spoken by God on two tables of stone (Exodus 32:16; Exodus 20:1) Exodus 20:3; Exodus 20:4-6; Exodus 20:7; Exodus 20:8-11; Exodus 20:12; Exodus 20:13; Exodus 20:14; Exodus 20:15; Exodus 20:16; Exodus 20:17. Moral laws written and spoken by Moses in the book of the law or covenant (Exodus 24:7; Deuteronomy 30:19) Leviticus 19:32; Deuteronomy 10:20; Leviticus 19:16-18; Leviticus 19:1-37 (most of which are expounding on God’s 10 commandments; Exodus 23:5; Deuteronomy 22:4; Exodus 22:21; Deuteronomy 24:19-21; Deuteronomy 15:7-11; Deuteronomy 10:19; Exodus 22:20; Exodus 21:15-17; Deuteronomy 23:18; Exodus 21:10; Deuteronomy 22:19; Leviticus 18:1-30; Exodus 23:1-12; Leviticus 25:14; 37; Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12 etc etc…

    Yep if you love your neighbor you will not lie, steal or kill them (moral right doing - Psalms 119:172). If you love God you will not have or make other Gods and bow down to them, use God's name in vain or break His Sabbath (Exodus 20:1-17; moral right doing - Psalms 119:172).

    ................

    CONCLUSION: According to God's Word as shown in the scriptures above all of God's commandments including God's 4th commandment are MORAL LAWS (righteousness; moral right doing).

    Blessings.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2020
  8. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Some laws deal with morality, how man treats God and how we treat our fellow man, other laws deal with civil matters and some with rituals such things as days, weeks and years. All of God's laws were or are moral verses being immoral. God gave us brains to be able to categorize the different kinds of laws. I am not under the civil laws God gave the Israelites. I am under the laws of the United States. I am not under the ritual laws that God set up for Israel. I am under the rituals set up by Jesus in the covenant He gave us. I read all your posts and you all amaze me how you fight with New Testament scripture I provide that proves points. The disdain that is exhibited is well noted as well as the total failure to recognize the scripture that I take the time to copy and paste for your convenience. The Jews did it to Jesus and Paul, so is that what I should also expect?
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    That is true.
     
  10. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I edited my post to read as follows: "Some laws deal with morality, how man treats God and how we treat our fellow man, other laws deal with civil matters and some with rituals such things as days, weeks and years. All of God's laws were or are moral verses being immoral. God gave us brains to be able to categorize the different kinds of laws."

    If you believe what I wrote why do you insist that the fourth commandment deals with morality when we know that it is a ritual command along with nine commands that deal with morality, how we deal with God and our fellow man? And while I am asking ❓ions do you really believe the commands God wrote with His finger were anymore important than what He spoke with His mouth❓
     
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member Supporter

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    That is true.
    nice.

    1. I never argue that every last thing you write must be error - I think some of it is true, without then being forced to suppose that all of it is. I too have free will.

    2. James says to break one of them is to break them all - and then gives examples "from the TEN".

    3. There is no such thing as "the nine commandments" in the Bible -- but it does mention "the TEN Commandments".

    4. The TEN are the ones where "the first commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment according to Paul in Eph 6:1-2

    5. Proving there is no truth at all to the rumor that God only wanted Jews to notice this Bible detail about His Law.

    I am glad these Sunday sources all affirm all TEN of the Ten Commandments for Christians, written on the heart and mind under the New Covenant.

    The Baptist Confession of Faith,
    the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
    D.L. Moody,
    R.C Sproul,
    Matthew Henry,
    Thomas Watson
    Eastern Orthodox Catechism
    The Catholic Catechism.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
  12. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jesus in Matt 5:
    31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:

    32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

    33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:

    34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

    35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

    36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.

    37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

    38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

    39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

    40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

    41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

    42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

    43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

    44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

    45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

    46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

    47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

    48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

    Notice that Jesus didn't just use commandments from the ten commandments yet you think that New Testament scripture that tell us to keep the commandments are only referring to the ten.

    Again I ask: are the commands written with God's finger anymore important than the ones spoken from His mouth❓
     
  13. Noxot

    Noxot Supporter

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    If Christ is not in you then what does it matter if he came to this world? Those expressions are also talking about spiritual life and so have to be fulfilled in us. Christian legalese does not make the life of the spirit. you will never fulfill every jot and Tittle of the law if you do not live it out. Those words are talking about you.
    It does but you certainly don't see it. no one needs the Holy Spirit to make them understand the literal sayings of the word. the only thing you need to understand the literal saying is to lean upon your own understanding and be a legalistic Christian.

    sadly even when the Bible says "do not lean upon your own understanding" Christians lean upon their own understanding and think it only means to not go your own way and to obey what the Bible says.

    You have not known that to not lean upon your own understanding is a spiritual practice so that you can learn to hear God. it seems rather obvious that one must become born of God in order to understand the things that are from God.

    Keep my Commandments and then I will come to you and I will dwell in you. the law of the child grows up to the fullness of the stature of The Living temple of God. Living by every word that comes out of him because he is in me and I am in him.

    It does not profit me to not be allowed to wear my mixture of polyester and cotton blend shirts.
     
  14. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    If it is there, then you should have no problem quoting where the Bible says that. Again, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law. Everything in Proverbs 3:1-12 is speaking in favor of obeying God's commandments, so that is what it looks like to trust in the Lord with all of our heart and to lean not on our own understanding. Legalism is a perversion of God's law that undermines both the intent of what God commanded and why He commanded it, where therefore leads to death just as assuredly as refusing to submit to His commands. There are many verses that describe the Mosaic Law as being instructions for how to walk in God's ways, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, Psalms 103:7, and many others, so obeying it is the opposite of going our own way. In 1 John 3:10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not children of God. Living by every word that comes from God looks like obedience to His law.
     
  15. Fervent

    Fervent Well-Known Member

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    My view is that obedience to commandments doesn't get at the real issue, which is a matter of the heart. God's law is not a matter of rules laid out to be obeyed blindly, but that we are to follow the leading of the Spirit. The law given at Sinai is obsolete, but it was based on a deeper truth about the things of God and so still stands to inform us of how we are to conduct ourselves. The true law is not a list of commandments, it's the character of Christ.
     
  16. Studyman

    Studyman Well-Known Member

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    The young ruler, like so many others we are warned about, was deceived into believing something about himself that was not true. We know he placed his riches before God by the reaction he had to the Christ’s request. He had failed in keeping the first and greatest commandment in the law. For you to say he has “fully kept the law” is to ignore his works all together. Jesus said we would know men by their works, not their words.

    Every self proclaimed Christian on the planet claims obedience to the Christ. In the examples written for our admonition, the Pharisees claimed obedience to God, King Saul claimed obedience to God. But in both cases, just as with the example you used, we know by their works that they believed a lie.

    In Is. 58, God inspired Isaiah to speak of the Sabbath fast. Not from food, but from the world. There is a sentence which reads “And that thy not hide thyself from thine own flesh”.

    Had this young ruler submitted to God’s Sabbath as did Zacharias, he would not have deceived his own self.

    How can you truly teach others this man “fully kept the law” when it is clear he lived in violation of the first and greatest commandment, according to the Words of Christ Himself?
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2020
  17. Studyman

    Studyman Well-Known Member

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    Yes

    As Paul said, “I was alive once and the law came and I died”. How did the Law come? Was it not by the congregation of the Lord? Moses, Aaron, Joshua, Isaiah, etc.?

    And what did they declare? That Paul had sinned and was sentenced to death? So then the Law was fulfilled as written, Paul was spiritually stoned outside the camp by the Elders of the Congregation of the Lord.

    Is this not the place we all begin our journey?
     
  18. Studyman

    Studyman Well-Known Member

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    I would ask you a question here.

    Eph. 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

    And again in the same topic;

    Col. 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

    First, where is it written that the Great God of Abraham created and prepared Laws or Commandments that were against, or an enemy of His Creation?

    Do you have any Scriptural evidence that God is the "hand" that had written and were promoting these Laws that were the enemy of Paul, the Jews, and the Gentiles? Where is your evidence to support your religious philosophy in this matter which implies that God, My God, and Jesus' God, placed Commandments on men that were their enemy to the point where God's Own Son must be killed to "Render inactive"?

    Please be just and consider and answer these questions please.

    The reason I ask is because of these Word's of the Scriptures Themselves.

    Jer. 23:16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.

    17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

    Was Jeremiah not inspired by the Spirit of the Christ Himself?

    And when this Same Christ became a man in the person of Jesus;

    Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

    8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

    9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

    So the question is, who has told you it was God's hand who wrote the commandments contained in ordinances that were against Paul, Gentiles and Jews, given that it seems the Christ Himself prophesied of this time, and also revealed who it was that were furthering these commandments mentioned above? Commandments of men, not God as you imply.

    I look forward to your response.
     
  19. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

    +6,198
    New Zealand
    Christian
    Married
    Deut 28 - The Law with the blessings and the curses which Jesus abolished on the Cross.

    Are you suggesting that these Laws with their blessing and curses were written by men and not by God?
     
  20. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Purple Team - Moderator Supporter

    +4,103
    United States
    Messianic
    Married
    Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
     
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