Where do believers go when they die?

[Neostarwcc]

Recently, there's been a member of the Christian forums that has gotten me to rethinking where we all go when we die. He said that all people both believers and non-believers who die go to Hades and depending on how much theosis they have they are either tormented or comforted in the afterlife.

I've always believed that believers go to heaven and eventually the New Earth when they die and unbelievers go to hell and eventually the lake of fire when they die. After all, Jesus said to the thief on the cross "Today you will be with me in Paradise" that seems self explanatory. The thief on the cross went to heaven and not Hades. Paul believed in his writings that one day he would go to be with the Lord when he died. So, since our Lord is currently sitting at God's right hand we can only assume that this means we're going to heaven to be with him. So which is it? Do we go to hades or do we go to heaven? Discuss.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Recently, there's been a member of the Christian forums that has gotten me to rethinking where we all go when we die. He said that all people both believers and non-believers who die go to Hades and depending on how much theosis they have they are either tormented or comforted in the afterlife.

I've always believed that believers go to heaven and eventually the New Earth when they die and unbelievers go to hell and eventually the lake of fire when they die. After all, Jesus said to the thief on the cross "Today you will be with me in Paradise" that seems self explanatory. The thief on the cross went to heaven and not Hades. Paul believed in his writings that one day he would go to be with the Lord when he died. So, since our Lord is currently sitting at God's right hand we can only assume that this means we're going to heaven to be with him. So which is it? Do we go to hades or do we go to heaven? Discuss.

Of course we cannot know. We can give it a word, such as "Paradise" . . . or we might notice how the souls of the saints are said to be "under the alter" in Revelation . . . but let us not commit the name fallacy. Just because we agree on a name for it does not mean we understand it. Is it a real within our known universe? Is it a realm in another dimension, with a definite distance between our dimension and the other? Is it as different a place as the world of one movie hero is from the world of a romantic comedy movie? Our total ignorance leaves me, for one, to be relatively unconcerned over how we assign the words. Paradise works for me, as does heaven.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Of course we cannot know. We can give it a word, such as "Paradise" . . . or we might notice how the souls of the saints are said to be "under the alter" in Revelation . . . but let us not commit the name fallacy. Just because we agree on a name for it does not mean we understand it. Is it a real within our known universe? Is it a realm in another dimension, with a definite distance between our dimension and the other? Is it as different a place as the world of one movie hero is from the world of a romantic comedy movie? Our total ignorance leaves me, for one, to be relatively unconcerned over how we assign the words. Paradise works for me, as does heaven.

Wherever we go we will always be with the Lord. That is the important thing and the most comforting part for me. I will always be with the Lord no matter what. No matter what I will always get to worship him and revere him. Always and forever. To me, that's heaven even if heaven doesn't exist.

 

[Lazarus Short]

I have carefully read what God had to say on the subject (in Genesis), what Solomon had to say, and what Jesus had to say. Dust to dust is a fact, but we have the promise of the resurrection. Then, and only then, do we enter the Kingdom. Going to Heaven when you die depends on the concept of the Immortality of the Soul, which comes from Greek philosophy.

 

[Noxot]

you go to the newbie zone of the other side and from there you will go to a place that suits you.

edit: I would think that there is usually some kind of formal greeting or celebration over having woke from sleep? i'm sure that for each it will be dependent upon themselves.

 

[Aimz]

Hello,

The souls of believers are at their death made perfect in holiness and immediately pass into glory and their bodies still being united to Christ rest in their graves till the resurrection.
At the resurrection believers being raised up in glory shall be openly acknowledged and aquitted in the day of judgement and made perfectly blessed in the full enjoying of God to all eternity.
Westminster Shorter Catechism.

In short, no one but the Holy Trinity knows the order and process so best not to get stuck in the logic but rather be thankful it awaits you and remain joyful in anticipation.

Take care and all the best,
Aimz.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Recently, there's been a member of the Christian forums that has gotten me to rethinking where we all go when we die. He said that all people both believers and non-believers who die go to Hades

Of course we cannot know.

It is actually written clearly in Scripture (and very often mis-interpretted or mis-exegeted(?) ).

So it depends on who "we" refers to whether someone can know or not.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Hello,

The souls of believers are at their death made perfect in holiness and immediately pass into glory and their bodies still being united to Christ rest in their graves till the resurrection.
At the resurrection believers being raised up in glory shall be openly acknowledged and aquitted in the day of judgement and made perfectly blessed in the full enjoying of God to all eternity.
Westminster Shorter Catechism.

In short, no one but the Holy Trinity knows the order and process so best not to get stuck in the logic but rather be thankful it awaits you and remain joyful in anticipation.

Take care and all the best,
Aimz.

So you're saying we sleep in our graves until the resurrection? But, why would Jesus say "Today, you will be with me in paradise." if we will be sleeping in our graves until the resurrection? Do you see what I'm getting at? We have to go somewhere in between that time. And for Christ to call it paradise it must be a wonderful place.

 

[brinny]

Recently, there's been a member of the Christian forums that has gotten me to rethinking where we all go when we die. He said that all people both believers and non-believers who die go to Hades and depending on how much theosis they have they are either tormented or comforted in the afterlife.

I've always believed that believers go to heaven and eventually the New Earth when they die and unbelievers go to hell and eventually the lake of fire when they die. After all, Jesus said to the thief on the cross "Today you will be with me in Paradise" that seems self explanatory. The thief on the cross went to heaven and not Hades. Paul believed in his writings that one day he would go to be with the Lord when he died. So, since our Lord is currently sitting at God's right hand we can only assume that this means we're going to heaven to be with him. So which is it? Do we go to hades or do we go to heaven? Discuss.

What does the Bible say?

In addition, what did Jesus say to the thief hanging on the cross beside Him?

 

[Neostarwcc]

What does the Bible say?

In addition, what did Jesus say to the thief hanging on the cross beside Him?

The bible doesn't have much to say on the subject does it? The bible says in a few places that our bodies sleep in the grave yet our spirits go somewhere else. And Jesus said "Today, you will be with me in paradise". So paradise is either Hades or Heaven and that's what we're discussing.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So you're saying we sleep in our graves until the resurrection? But, why would Jesus say "Today, you will be with me in paradise." if we will be sleeping in our graves until the resurrection? Do you see what I'm getting at? We have to go somewhere in between that time. And for Christ to call it paradise it must be a wonderful place.

Just a peaceful footnote most people never seem to realize.

When a believer sleeps, Like Jesus said of Lazarus and Tabitha and others,
they are awakened by YHWH in the resurrection
in no time at all ---- in the twinkling of an eye, it seems like less than a second to them.

 

[Aimz]

Read it again carefully.

In life our Spirit is with Christ in Heaven.
Our earthly bodies are walking on the earth.
In death our Spirit is with our Lord.
Our earthly bodies are in the grave.
At our resurrection our Spirit is united to a new glorified immortal body, not our corrupted mortal earthly body.

Yes there is an inbetween place but no one but the Holy Trinity knows the exact process or ‘place’ if a physical place is necessary for disembodied Spirits. The Bible does not explain everything it just tells us what we need to know right now.

Many people over many years have attempted to fill in the blanks we are warned against this because it leads to doubt about the truth we have been given. Better to trust God and be content to commit fully to the truth He has given and not dwell on the gaps in our current knowledge. Hades, Hell, Heaven, Limbo, Purgatory... not our purpose to dwell on or explain.

So you're saying we sleep in our graves until the resurrection? But, why would Jesus say "Today, you will be with me in paradise." if we will be sleeping in our graves until the resurrection? Do you see what I'm getting at? We have to go somewhere in between that time. And for Christ to call it paradise it must be a wonderful place.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Read it again carefully.

In life our Spirit is with Christ in Heaven.
Our earthly bodies are walking on the earth.
In death our Spirit is with our Lord.
Our earthly bodies are in the grave.
At our resurrection our Spirit is united to a new glorified immortal body, not our corrupted mortal earthly body.

Yes there is an inbetween place but no one but the Holy Trinity knows the exact process or ‘place’ if a physical place is necessary for disembodied Spirits. The Bible does not explain everything it just tells us what we need to know right now.

Oh I'm sorry. I misread what you said. My bad.

 

[brinny]

The bible doesn't have much to say on the subject does it? The bible says in a few places that our bodies sleep in the grave yet our spirits go somewhere else. And Jesus said "Today, you will be with me in paradise". So paradise is either Hades or Heaven and that's what we're discussing.

Jesus said "Paradise". Why would there be any confusion regarding "hades"?

In addition, why would "Paradise" be bereft of God or other than where He is?

It is also written that the souls of the martyrs are right there with God, crying out for justice over their spilled blood.

Are believers put in a "holding cell" somewhere else?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

And Jesus said "Today, you will be with me in paradise". So paradise is either Hades or Heaven and that's what we're discussing.

No, though that is the most common thought it is not right.

Remember that JESUS HIMSELF was not in paradise "TODAY", so HE could not be with the thief in paradise "TODAY".

The MOST INFAMOUS COMMA in history. Not "I tell you, today you will be with ME in paradise" but more better: "I tell you today, you will be with ME in paradise".

One requires twisting several Scriptures and denying that Jesus was not in paradise "today",
the other doesn't require any change nor contradiction in any Scripture at all , but is totally in harmony with all Scripture.

(just not in harmony with man's belief systems! )

 

[Neostarwcc]

Jesus said "Paradise". Why would there be any confusion regarding "hades"?

In addition, why would "Paradise" be bereft of God or other than where He is?

It is also written that the souls of the martyrs are right there with God, crying out for justice over their spilled blood.

Are believers put in a "holding cell" somewhere else?

I don't really think so, no. It is my belief that we go to be with Jesus in heaven when we die. That's why Jesus said "Today, you will be with me in paradise" to the thief on the cross. But, he also wasn't resurrected yet and hadn't ascended to heaven so how can he be with the thief on the cross and be dead at the same time?

 

[com7fy8]

He said that all people both believers and non-believers who die go to Hades and depending on how much theosis they have they are either tormented or comforted in the afterlife.

Galatians 6:7-8 says we will reap what we have sown. So, wherever we go, we will reap so much more than what we have been sowing.

If our sowing has been while growing in the nature of Jesus, Jesus will be in us . . . wherever we are. So, this is most important > Galatians 4:19, with 1 John 4:17.

And if we have lived selfishly so we can be corrupted by fear because of living in a selfish nature > there is "torment" with fear and the selfish nature which makes one weak so one can suffer fear and its "torment" > I offer > 1 John 4:18.

So, once we are out of our physical bodies, we will have only how we have become spiritually. There will be no longer any nice physical body which we can use to feel pleasures. We will only have the maturity of God's love, or the corruption of the selfish nature which makes someone degraded enough to keep on suffering torment. And we will reap so much more of whichever, than those little seeds we have been sowing.

I agree with your basic idea that we in Jesus will eventually have our new earth to share with our Groom Jesus and one another. And our Apostle Paul says the new earth will be in resurrectional glory, like us, according to how I understand Romans 8:20-21.

 

[Aimz]

No, no it is okay we all have these questions and we all learn to be content and rely on the Spirit. Curiosity and anticipation are good things but discernment and wisdom is also needed! We can get so easily swept up and distracted. I know I did.

Oh I'm sorry. I misread what you said. My bad.

 

[brinny]

I don't really think so, no. It is my belief that we go to be with Jesus in heaven when we die. That's why Jesus said "Today, you will be with me in paradise" to the thief on the cross. But, he also wasn't resurrected yet and hadn't ascended to heaven so how can he be with the thief on the cross and be dead at the same time?

Jesus, God's only begotten Son was crucified and died. God the Father didn't. Neither did the Holy Spirit.

What He was saying that, upon the thief's death, he would not be alone, abandoned. He would be in God the Father's presence, which is in sync with being in the presence of Jesus the Christ.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Jesus, God's only begotten Son was crucified and died. God the Father didn't. Neither did the Holy Spirit.

What He was saying that, upon the thief's death, he would not be alone, abandoned. He would be in God the Father's presence, which is in sync with being in the presence of Jesus the Christ.

I see. Interesting.