Eftsoon

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I was just thinking about cathedrals.

Imagine that you're a mediaeval peasant. Your life is populated by the quaint, and the perfectly unremarkable. Squat buildings, thatched roofs, perhaps a stone manor with a turreted tower or two. Every year however you make a pilgrimage to the local cathedral. You exchange dirt tracks, pitted stone and rotting wood for soaring crenellations, infinite resonance and scintillating glass.

Cathedrals would have carried a visual weight that we can't possibly understand today. It seems that all the churches have abandoned this commitment to the sublime. Most of our churches today are functional.

This has extended into the way in which we create religious art in general. Compare 'Confessions' or 'the Windhover' to any number of modern devotionals and inspirational poems.

I'm not really talking about beauty though that is part of it. I'm talking about the sublime- dynamical and mathematical. We don't create religious art which has psychological, moral, aeshtetic and spiritual power. The sad comparison is Hillsong and Hildegard.

Why is this? Kant describes the dynamical sublime with visions of ' threatening rocks, thunderclouds piled up the vault of heaven, borne along with flashes and peals, volcanos in all their violence of destruction, hurricanes leaving desolation in their track, the boundless ocean rising with rebellious force, the high waterfall of some mighty river'.

In the modern period of art making I think that Coltrane really approaches this. It is music which thunders on every sense organ. A Love Supreme is the album which reaches the pinnacle of human artistic endeavour. For me anyway.Art should make us feel like we have been taken to the limits of imagination.

Even if we take Tavener and Part who I admire profoundly, there is still a sense of impossible depth and scale. It doesn't have to have decibels and pyrotechnics!

I feel that there is lost potential here. Why did God create the 'vault of heaven' and the 'boundless ocean' if He didn't want us to draw them in and in some way reproduce them. In doing so we participate in God's creative activity and are thus drawn closer to Him.

The ancient Jews will always be the epitome of this. The Ark of the Covenant, the Tabernacle, the Old Testament songs and poetry. God chose to communicate using the sublime. They make it cear that God wants us to engage these faculties. The tragedy is that we have left our generation with nothing to inculcate a sense of the sublime. Marilynne Robinson, Part, Tavener and others give me hope, but I feel that the church needs to reclaim the sublime. The capacity to comprehend and appreciate it is a neglected gift I feel.
 
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durangodawood

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I was just thinking about cathedrals.

Imagine that you're a mediaeval peasant. Your life is populated by the quaint, and the perfectly unremarkable. Squat buildings, thatched roofs, perhaps a stone manor with a turreted tower or two. Every year however you make a pilgrimage to the local cathedral. You exchange dirt tracks, pitted stone and rotting wood for soaring crenellations, infinite resonance and scintillating glass.

Cathedrals would have carried a visual weight that we can't possibly understand today. It seems that all the churches have abandoned this commitment to the sublime. Most of our churches today are functional.

This has extended into the way in which we create religious art in general. Compare 'Confessions' or 'the Windhover' to any number of modern devotionals and inspirational poems.

I'm not really talking about beauty though that is part of it. I'm talking about the sublime- dynamical and mathematical. We don't create religious art which has psychological, moral, aeshtetic and spiritual power. The sad comparison is Hillsong and Hildegard.

Why is this? Kant describes the dynamical sublime with visions of ' threatening rocks, thunderclouds piled up the vault of heaven, borne along with flashes and peals, volcanos in all their violence of destruction, hurricanes leaving desolation in their track, the boundless ocean rising with rebellious force, the high waterfall of some mighty river'.

In the modern period of art making I think that Coltrane really approaches this. It is music which thunders on every sense organ. A Love Supreme is the album which reaches the pinnacle of human artistic endeavour. For me anyway.Art should make us feel like we have been taken to the limits of imagination.

Even if we take Tavener and Part who I admire profoundly, there is still a sense of impossible depth and scale. It doesn't have to have decibels and pyrotechnics!

I feel that there is lost potential here. Why did God create the 'vault of heaven' and the 'boundless ocean' if He didn't want us to draw them in and in some way reproduce them. In doing so we participate in God's creative activity and are thus drawn closer to Him.

The ancient Jews will always be the epitome of this. The Ark of the Covenant, the Tabernacle, the Old Testament songs and poetry. God chose to communicate using the sublime. They make it cear that God wants us to engage these faculties. The tragedy is that we have left our generation with nothing to inculcate a sense of the sublime. Marilynne Robinson, Part, Tavener and others give me hope, but I feel that the church needs to reclaim the sublime. The capacity to comprehend and appreciate it is a neglected gift I feel.
Terrific post, and I say that as a non religious person.

A great work of art thats at least party about our approach to the sublime is Moby Dick. There we witness Ahab in a life and death struggle to nail down the sublime, the unfathomable mystery and terror of things below or above or beyond the human scope. To fix it like a butterfly in a collection. Its like a struggle against God really. And.....
it doesnt go well for him
 
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Eftsoon

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Terrific post, and I say that as a non religious person.

A great work of art thats at least party about our approach to the sublime is Moby Dick. There we witness Ahab in a life and death struggle to nail down the sublime, the unfathomable mystery and terror of things below or above or beyond the human scope. To fix it like a butterfly in a collection. Its like a struggle against God really. And.....
it doesnt go well for him


Yes, Melville is such a fruitful writer. I think we could also view Ahab's quest as one to destroy the threat of the unknown. The sublime is always unknown and mysterious and threatens our hold over reality. It
The Rime of the Ancient Mariner is another great example.The Mariner is stripped down to the bone, and witnesses the sublime, not just as a terrible and shattering phenomenon, but as redemptive experience. I love the image of a teeming mass of deep-sea creatures shining white and undulating under the waves. Absolutely transcendent picture.

Beyond the shadow of the ship,
I watched the water-snakes:
They moved in tracks of shining white,
And when they reared, the elfish light
Fell off in hoary flakes.

Within the shadow of the ship
I watched their rich attire:
Blue, glossy green, and velvet black,
They coiled and swam; and every track
Was a flash of golden fire.

O happy living things! no tongue
Their beauty might declare:
A spring of love gushed from my heart,
And I blessed them unaware:
Sure my kind saint took pity on me,
And I blessed them unaware.

The self same moment I could pray;
And from my neck so free
The Albatross fell off, and sank
Like lead into the sea
 
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OldWiseGuy

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Cathedrals are both very expensive and very time-intensive to build. They are a waste of effort better spent improving the actual lives of people.

God doesn't like them much either.

Acts 17:24
God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
 
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durangodawood

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God doesn't like them much either.

Acts 17:24
God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
In the Bible it seems there's always another point of view:

And making a whip of cords, he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen. And he poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. And he told those who sold the pigeons, "Take these things away; do not make my Father's house a house of trade".
— John 2:13–16
 
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