Only Born Again Are The Saved

[GospelS]

Friends,

If you promote/defend salvation can be lost (in all cases), please consider the seeds falling on good soil. There are those who hear the word, understand and continue to bear fruit and yield (Matt 13:1-23). They are not perfect people but they are fighting a good fight and will progressively finish the race, by the Spirit they also received.

Some seeds fall on rocky ground and among thorns. The seed of salvation is fruitless and falls unless it is rooted by the Spirit. They receive the word but not the Spirit that enables them to exercise the word. So they are not born again and cannot hold on to what they've received until the end. And not everyone who receives the word will also receive the Spirit.

In conclusion, good soil will always bear fruit and yields. If salvation was true and deeply rooted by Spirit, it remains and they will be born again.

“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” What is born from the Spirit is spirit. John 3

Thank you

 

[Gregory Thompson]

If it doesn't bear fruit the orchard owner uses a lot of fertilizer or dung to make it bear fruit. The parables also teach this.

 

[Dave-W]

When you oppose salvation can be lost (in all cases), please consider the possibility of seeds falling on good soil. There are those who hear the word, understand and continue to bear fruit. They are not perfect people but they are fighting a good fight and will progressively finish the race.

the once saved always saved (OSAS) crowd would say the people represented by the other rocky and trampled down soils were never really saved to begin with.

 

[GospelS]

the once saved always saved (OSAS) crowd would say the people represented by the other rocky and trampled down soils were never really saved to begin with.

To answer that I added the below to my OP:
I would like to say that receiving free gift of salvation is different from being born again. Those with good soil are the ones that have received the gift of salvation and also born again. While those that fall on rocky ground and among thorns, they received the gift of salvation but not born again. So, they could not keep the gift.

 

[com7fy8]

When you promote/defend salvation cannot be lost (in all cases), please consider the possibility of seeds falling on rocky ground and among thorns. (Matt 13:19-22)

My opinion > if you get saved, you are safe. If you get the word but are rocky and thorny, you are not safe, therefore not saved. You don't lose what you don't have.

"But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived." (2 Timothy 3:13)

If someone is rocky and thorny in how they receive God's word, their character is not suited for receiving God's word.

"receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls" (in James 1:21)

In order to get saved, a person trusts in Jesus > Ephesians 1:12. And the person is "joined to the Lord" and becomes "one spirit with Him." (in 1 Corinthians 6:17) The resulting union is in God's almighty power changing the person to be meek and humble, and therefore safe.

People in rocks and thorns are not safe. So, in my opinion we do not need to say they have anything to lose which they have gotten. But God is able to change them to trust in Jesus and be joined to Him in almighty union which changes them to be obedient . . . and safe.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Hence, there are those that are once saved always saved and there are those that are once saved and fallen way.

I might be making a semantic argument, but if someone is saved and then loses salvation, then what was that person ever saved from? You might say that the person was saved from sin, but it was sin that caused the person to fall away, again. One cannot be saved from sin only to lose salvation because of it. It is either a factor in salvation or the object of it. It cannot be both.

The seed on the good soil is saved. The seed on other soils are not. They may sprout a temporary faith, but they are not saved, because they have not been saved from anything.

 

[GospelS]

My opinion > if you get saved, you are safe. If you get the word but are rocky and thorny, you are not safe, therefore not saved. You don't lose what you don't have.

"But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived." (2 Timothy 3:13)

If someone is rocky and thorny in how they receive God's word, their character is not suited for receiving God's word.

"receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls" (in James 1:21)

In order to get saved, a person trusts in Jesus > Ephesians 1:12. And the person is "joined to the Lord" and becomes "one spirit with Him." (in 1 Corinthians 6:17) The resulting union is in God's almighty power changing the person to be meek and humble, and therefore safe.

People in rocks and thorns are not safe. So, in my opinion we do not need to say they have anything to lose which they have gotten. But God is able to change them to trust in Jesus and be joined to Him in almighty union which changes them to be obedient . . . and safe.

Ok. I take it. But let's examine "he falls away" used in this parable. What would you say they are falling away from?

 

[GospelS]

I might be making a semantic argument, but if someone is saved and then loses salvation, then what was that person ever saved from? You might say that the person was saved from sin, but it was sin that caused the person to fall away, again. One cannot be saved from sin only to lose salvation because of it. It is either a factor in salvation or the object of it. It cannot be both.

The seed on the good soil is saved. The seed on other soils are not. They may sprout a temporary faith, but they are not saved, because they have not been saved from anything.

It is not me saying. The parable is saying some received the gift of salvation with joy but then have fallen away. So what are they falling away from if they never had it?

I rephrased the words in my OP to say: There are those that will always receive and understand the word (absorb the seed, grow, bear fruit and yield) and there are those that cannot hold on to what they've received, until the end.

 

[com7fy8]

They may sprout a temporary faith,

And we can ask, what kind of faith?

In Jesus we have "faith working through love" (in Galatians 5:6). And "Love never fails" (in 1 Corinthians 13:8); so is this the kind of faith which can be lost????

But James shows how there can be faith which is only belief without works of love >

"Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead." (James 2:17)

So, God's word clearly says there is dead faith.

But we in Jesus have been made alive >

"And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins," (Ephesians 2:1)

So, our saving faith is life-giving. There is resurrection power making us more and more alive in love and love's works.

But dead faith does not save a person, does not make a person alive in God's love. Belief can be dead. One can believe in Jesus, but not trust in Him by submitting to Him. Such can be self-produced faith maybe with some experience, but not alive in God's love changing the person's nature.

And we see how part of our basic calling is to obey how our Heavenly Father personally rules us in His own peace >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

This peace is almighty against unforgiveness, bitterness, wrath and anger, arguing, complaining, and dominating and dictatorial drives for foolish and selfish pleasures. So, we are safe, in God's peace ruling in our hearts.

Obeying God in His peace, then, is a basic of trusting in Jesus.

Now, of course, we need to grow in this and learn > Jesus does say "learn from Me" > Matthew 11:28-30. Plus, we in Jesus are guaranteed how our Father corrects us so we do better and better . . . I personally understand Hebrews 12:4-14 to mean.

And this scripture says if someone does not have this correction, the person is not legitimate, which I understand means the person is not a child of God. So, if someone makes some gesture of saying a prayer or getting baptized or jiggling one's tongue, but the person does not start getting real correction of one's nature, then the person has not gotten started and so he or she has nothing real to lose.

But if we trust in Jesus, we leave behind our selves and our human freedom so inferior. If someone holds on to one's own ability to choose to forsake Jesus, how is this safe? Jesus says we need, then, to deny ourselves and take up our cross and follow Him > Luke 9:23. Or else, we are not safe.

 

[GospelS]

But James shows how there can be faith which is only belief without works of love >

"Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead." (James 2:17)

So, God's word clearly says there is dead faith.

But dead faith does not save a person, does not make a person alive in God's love. Belief can be dead. One can believe in Jesus, but not trust in Him by submitting to Him. Such can be self-produced faith maybe with some experience, but not alive in God's love changing the person's nature.

And this scripture says if someone does not have this correction, the person is not legitimate, which I understand means the person is not a child of God. So, if someone makes some gesture of saying a prayer or getting baptized or jiggling one's tongue, but the person does not start getting real correction of one's nature, then the person has not gotten started and so he or she has nothing real to lose.

Clearly these are either faking their belief or they are rocky ground among thorns who take the word but cannot absorb it and have no fruit.

So, our saving faith is life-giving. There is resurrection power making us more and more alive in love and love's works.

But we in Jesus have been made alive >

"And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins," (Ephesians 2:1)

This peace is almighty against unforgiveness, bitterness, wrath and anger, arguing, complaining, and dominating and dictatorial drives for foolish and selfish pleasures. So, we are safe, in God's peace ruling in our hearts.

Obeying God in His peace, then, is a basic of trusting in Jesus.

Now, of course, we need to grow in this and learn > Jesus does say "learn from Me" > Matthew 11:28-30. Plus, we in Jesus are guaranteed how our Father corrects us so we do better and better . . . I personally understand Hebrews 12:4-14 to mean.

Jesus says we need, then, to deny ourselves and take up our cross and follow Him > Luke 9:23.

These are the once with good soil, that receive the word, understand it and bear fruit.

 

[bling]

Friends,

When you oppose salvation can be lost (in all cases), please consider the possibility of seeds falling on good soil. There are those who hear the word, understand and continue to bear fruit. They are not perfect people but they are fighting a good fight and will progressively finish the race.

As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty. Matt 13:23

When you promote/defend salvation cannot be lost (in all cases), please consider the possibility of seeds falling on rocky ground and among thorns. (Matt 13:19-22)

1. As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.

2. As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful.

In conclusion, good soil will always bear fruit and yields. If salvation was true and deeply rooted, it remains and is evidenced by their fruits and yielding. I would like to say that receiving free gift of salvation is different from being born again. Those with good soil are the ones that have received the gift of salvation and also born again. While those that fall on rocky ground and among thorns, they received the gift of salvation but not born again and could not keep the gift. Hence, there are those that will always keep the gift and there are those that cannot keep it until the end.

Thank you

I would use the following since they are more specific:
1. Gal. 6: 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. 10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

Paul explains plainly that eternal life is the harvest in the future we do not want to “give up”, but that also teaches we can give it up.

Our doing good stuff while here on earth (or better: our allowing God to work through us doing good stuff) is not to “earn”, “payback” or to allow us to “hold on to our salvation”. We want to continue to utilize Godly type Love and not get caught up in carnal type love so the huge Love Feast of Heaven (unselfish type Love only) still has value to us and not something we would sell on the cheap.

As far as being saved by faith only without “works”, that is true, but just like the Prodigal son wimped out of taking the punishment he fully deserved and humbly returned to the Father, we must wimp out, give up surrender to our enemy God and that will allow God to shower us with His charity.

2. Eternal Life in heaven is spoken of as our inheritance and not something we actually have at the moment. All other Gifts of God we have right away, but heaven is truly ours as a birthright (our inheritance).



Part of the meaning to the concept of being given a gift is the fact that the ownership of the gift actually transfers to the receiver of the gift and as such the receiver of the gift can do what he/she wants to do with the gift.



The Hebrew writer in Heb. 12:16 See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son.

Esau own the “gift” of the first born inheritance rights, which could not be taken from him by anyone, nor could someone steal it from his hand, not even his father could take them back, but Esau could sell it or give it away.


The Hebrew writer is telling us not to give away or sell our birth right (as born again Christians) which is our inheritance of eternal life.



We own a paid up tax free deed to a home in heaven, so that home was gifted to us, but the Hebrew writer is saying we could sell (or give it away) like Esau did.

 

[com7fy8]

1. As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.

But let's examine "he falls away" used in this parable. What would you say they are falling away from?

Well, possibly he is not rooted in love; so when the sun comes up and shines on him, he dries up and breaks down and falls away from the sunshine - - instead of growing in it, like a plant with healthy roots would do. The sun dries him, so he hardens, while a healthy plant of God's love will grow in the same sunshine.

 

[GospelS]

I might be making a semantic argument, but if someone is saved and then loses salvation, then what was that person ever saved from? You might say that the person was saved from sin, but it was sin that caused the person to fall away, again. One cannot be saved from sin only to lose salvation because of it. It is either a factor in salvation or the object of it. It cannot be both.

The seed on the good soil is saved. The seed on other soils are not. They may sprout a temporary faith, but they are not saved, because they have not been saved from anything.

I see. I updated my OP.

 

[GospelS]

Well, possibly he is not rooted in love; so when the sun comes up and shines on him, he dries up and breaks down and falls away from the sunshine - - instead of growing in it, like a plant with healthy roots would do. The sun dries him, so he hardens, while a healthy plant of God's love will grow in the same sunshine.

Thank you. I updated my OP.

 

[com7fy8]

But let's examine "he falls away" used in this parable. What would you say they are falling away from?

Here is something I just thought of, when I read your question.

We also read in the Bible about how there will be "a great falling away" before the man of evil is revealed, if I remember correctly. And I thought of how if you have a city with great walls, there is the straight and narrow way who is Jesus, to enter the city properly and you can become a citizen.

But there can be the many dishonest, dishonorable people who are trying to climb ladders all around that city, to sneak and force their way over the wall, into the city. But there are soldiers and citizens who are pushing all those ladders off the wall, so there is a great falling away of all those ungodly ones who are on those ladders.

They try to climb their way up the steps of the ladders, then they get too high and they fall backward > "God resists the proud" (in James 4:6, 1 Peter 5:5) so they can not get things their own way. They believe in the city, but they do not do what they need to do so they may enter and benefit from being there.

Jesus says,

"'Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.'" (Matthew 11:28-30)

Ones would love to just jump and fly over the wall, and feel peace and have God solve all their problems. But Jesus says we need to take His "yoke" upon us. This has us in personal connection and union with Jesus and one another. But we need to learn how to submit to Jesus in this yoke.

Therefore, salvation starts with major correction > Hebrews 12:4-14. We need to actively seek our Father for this correction which makes our character submissive so we can obey Jesus in His love and leading. And we discover how our Creator makes us creative for how to love each and every person. This includes prayer, so we are trusting people to God and not playing God, ourselves!

Therefore, we see how this fits with how Jesus says we need to deny ourselves, in Luke 9:23. Our old self's free will has to die so we can freely flow with Jesus in His yoke.

Praying about and thinking about what He has us doing at every moment would take too much time. We need to submit and flow with Him . . . in how He personally rules us in God's own peace >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

Can you imagine an ox being in a yoke, and every minute or two the ox says, "Wait, I need to stop and pray and think about if I want to keep pulling the plow on the line where you are guiding me"?

Jesus is "gentle and lowly in heart" in us, in our emotions, feelings, thinking, and how we are reacting, "and you will find rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:28-30) Jesus is not the one who wastes people and tears people apart with dominating and dictatorial drives for pleasure, while they are being eaten alive by unforgiveness and raging anger and bitterness and desperation for pleasure to try to make themselves feel something nicer. But Jesus is kind to us while we are submitting > submissive to Him, in His yoke.

This is guaranteed if we come to Jesus and deny ourselves and turn from our life of sin. We turn to Jesus, which means we take His yoke upon us and submit to Him. And He changes us so it is our nature to not sin, while we become busy with seeking real correction and submission to Him.

We can not keep our self with its ability to sin to hell, and be in the yoke of Jesus, at the same time. We have been turned "from the power of Satan to God" > Acts 26:18. And God is now working in our wills >

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

But are we perfectly not sinning? My opinion is no, but we are growing. Even children of God who are mature can still be wrong somehow; this is why we are told to relate with one another "with longsuffering" > Ephesians 4:2 > and "forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (in Ephesians 4:31-32) So, yes we can sin, but also we can forgive "even as God" ! ! !

"But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived." (2 Timothy 3:13)

So, our main attention, then, is not to if we sin or not or worrying about how we could lose our "saved" label. Stay attentive to how God is personally correcting and ruling us so we grow in how Jesus has loved us while being so sweetly delighting to our Father >

"And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma." (Ephesians 5:2)

Fear of hell and fear of losing our salvation is not the motive which can have us doing this. Our attention needs to be to following the example of Jesus, and winning people by our example > like how Christians wives can help any disobedient husband > 1 Peter 3:1-4 < "without a word", by their example . . . in the sight of God > 1 Peter 3:4.