LDS Where did creation come from? May we call it creation?

Yodas_Prodigy1

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Where did creation come from? May we call it creation?

We have to come to a conclusion on these thoughts. Is the universe eternal or was it created? If it is eternal, that means that our God and all other Gods are dependent on the universe. In other words, if the universe never had existed, nether would any god.

If God is eternal, the universe is then dependent on him. Here is what the Bible says:

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

Colossians 1:16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
 

JackRT

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We have to come to a conclusion on these thoughts. Is the universe eternal or was it created? If it is eternal, that means that our God and all other Gods are dependent on the universe.

That is poor logic.
 
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devin553344

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Where did creation come from? May we call it creation?

We have to come to a conclusion on these thoughts. Is the universe eternal or was it created? If it is eternal, that means that our God and all other Gods are dependent on the universe. In other words, if the universe never had existed, nether would any god.

If God is eternal, the universe is then dependent on him. Here is what the Bible says:

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

Colossians 1:16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.

You hit on an important point, the word was God, in other words Jesus has always been God. But LDS apparently don't believe that. Thanks for the biblical backing of the Nicene creed :)
 
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mark kennedy

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Where did creation come from? May we call it creation?

We have to come to a conclusion on these thoughts. Is the universe eternal or was it created? If it is eternal, that means that our God and all other Gods are dependent on the universe. In other words, if the universe never had existed, nether would any god.

If God is eternal, the universe is then dependent on him. Here is what the Bible says:

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

Colossians 1:16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
I wondered about this, it's like the universe is expanding. The question I always had was, into what? Original creation was ex nihilo 'out of nothing', so does everything just come into existence and become the universe? I think it did have a source, the glory of God but this is highly speculative. According to Einstein learned that light an become energy and energy in turn can become matter. The glory of God is described as a light, almost like a cloud, I think that was the source but that's just a guess.
 
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d taylor

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Hebrews 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
That word you have in bold in the Greek is aión Definition: a space of time, an age

It does not mean a science universe with planets,stars etc..

The Bible states that God created heaven and earth. In Genesis 1 the account of Gods creation. the Bibles states that God creates heaven and earth. God creating a universe is not mention in Genesis 1, because God did not create a universe, that is just a lie of science.
 
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mark kennedy

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That word you have in bold in the Greek is aión Definition: a space of time, an age

It does not mean a science universe with planets,stars etc..

The Bible states that God created heaven and earth. In Genesis 1 the account of Gods creation. the Bibles states that God creates heaven and earth. God creating a universe is not mention in Genesis 1, because God did not create a universe, that is just a lie of science.
The heavens and the earth is a Hebrew idiom for the universe, it means everything created. You taking a Greek word that can mean different things depending on the context and making a sweeping statement that pertains to little, including the universe.
 
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Yodas_Prodigy1

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Noting in those verses you posted about God creating a universe.

You are just being obtuse...

Colossians 1:16 New English Translation (NET Bible)
16 for all things in heaven and on earth were created in him—all things, whether visible or invisible, whether thrones or dominions, whether principalities or powers—all things were created through him and for him.

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2 Now the earth was without shape and empty, and darkness was over the surface of the watery deep, but the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the water. 3 God said, “Let there be light.” And there was light! 4 God saw that the light was good, so God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.” There was evening, and there was morning, marking the first day.

6 God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters and let it separate water from water.” 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. It was so. 8 God called the expanse “sky.” There was evening, and there was morning, a second day.

9 God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place and let dry ground appear.” It was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” God saw that it was good.

11 God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: plants yielding seeds according to their kinds, and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds.” It was so. 12 The land produced vegetation—plants yielding seeds according to their kinds, and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. God saw that it was good. 13 There was evening, and there was morning, a third day.

14 God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them be signs to indicate seasons and days and years, 15 and let them serve as lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth.” It was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to rule over the day and the lesser light to rule over the night. He made the stars also. 17 God placed the lights in the expanse of the sky to shine on the earth, 18 to preside over the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. God saw that it was good. 19 There was evening, and there was morning, a fourth day.

20 God said, “Let the water swarm with swarms of living creatures and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky.” 21 God created the great sea creatures and every living and moving thing with which the water swarmed, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds multiply on the earth.” 23 There was evening, and there was morning, a fifth day.

24 God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: cattle, creeping things, and wild animals, each according to its kind.” It was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the cattle according to their kinds, and all the creatures that creep along the ground according to their kinds. God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, “Let us make humankind in our image, after our likeness, so they may rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move on the earth.”

27 God created humankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them,
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply! Fill the earth and subdue it! Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and every creature that moves on the ground.” 29 Then God said, “I now give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the entire earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the animals of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” It was so.

31 God saw all that he had made—and it was very good! There was evening, and there was morning, the sixth day.
 
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d taylor

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You are just being obtuse...

Colossians 1:16 New English Translation (NET Bible)
16 for all things in heaven and on earth were created in him—all things, whether visible or invisible, whether thrones or dominions, whether principalities or powers—all things were created through him and for him.

No i am just stating, christians have let science influence their reading of the Bible. Causing christian to read into verses meanings, ideas, that are not coming from the Bible but from outside of the Bible pagan/non christian sources.
 
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RichardY

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Isaac Newton (Panentheism)
Reality is Transcendent & Immanent. (God moves creation)
Not a Trinitarian. Idolatry is a sin.
Creation out of God. To oppose God is to sever that connection. Usually for material gain, or sometimes out of pride.
Freewill exists, Good & Evil. To oppose God is be thrown into the lake of fire with Satan and annihilated from existence. "Man does not live by bread alone...."
Fallen World.
You are part of God, but so is everything else. Except Satan. Demons to various extent (although Satan is dependent on God for existence.)
Dimensions more than 4 exist. Reality is Fractal in nature.
Salvation is found through good works.

Leibniz(Theism)
Reality is Transcendent. (literally the Force).
Trinitarianism.
Creation ex nihilo.
Freewill Exists, but extends about as far as what flavour of cheesecake.
Dimensions are illusory. Monads make up reality.
Best of all Possible Worlds. Good & Evil exist. Everyone, but Satan wins.
The better you understand your lot "be really satisfied" the better off you'll be.

Spinoza
(Pantheism/Atheism)
Reality is Immanent.
God is Creation.
You are God almighty experiencing itself. Whatever feels good, is good.
Heal the World.
Freewill is a feeling, like Determinism.
Ultimately leads to a Multiple Worlds Theory.

A few books I listened to on Audible. I also found some of the essays and books by Christopher Langan helpful.

Leibniz: Discourse on Metaphysics.
C.S Lewis: A Pilgrim's Regress. Mere Christianity.
Spinoza: The Ethics.
 
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Yodas_Prodigy1

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No i am just stating, christians have let science influence their reading of the Bible. Causing christian to read into verses meanings, ideas, that are not coming from the Bible but from outside of the Bible pagan/non christian sources.

God created science... An orderly God created an orderly universe...
 
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Yodas_Prodigy1

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A orderly God created a orderly heaven and earth. God did not create a universe, science did.

This is a discussion where Christians are trying to reach LDS for Christ... Sir or Ma'am, you are obstructing my effort... If you want to continue the discussion, make it private... Otherwise, you are helping pave the highway to Hell for these folks...
 
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RichardY

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A orderly God created a orderly heaven and earth. God did not create a universe, science did.

If science created the universe. Then that would be either Scientology or Jainism, (TransTheism) Pluralism. And also.... The Darkside! I'm not kidding, look at the symbol of Jainism. But why list Protestant as your religion?

This is a discussion where Christians are trying to reach LDS for Christ... Sir or Ma'am, you are obstructing my effort... If you want to continue the discussion, make it private... Otherwise, you are helping pave the highway to Hell for these folks...

Looking on Wikipedia at LDS and Trinitarianism. The only major non-Trinitarian major Christian sects, are Jehovah Witness or LDS. Seemingly the most Zealous mainstream ones, I haven't met any Trinitarian preaching sects going door to door.

Gold tablets with a reformed Egyptian Language. By a Nephilim. If I hadn't looked into metaphysics, I would find that hard to take. Why not keep to the New and Old Testament?
 
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Peter1000

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Where did creation come from? May we call it creation?

We have to come to a conclusion on these thoughts. Is the universe eternal or was it created? If it is eternal, that means that our God and all other Gods are dependent on the universe. In other words, if the universe never had existed, nether would any god.

If God is eternal, the universe is then dependent on him. Here is what the Bible says:

Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

Colossians 1:16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Sorry, but we can not answer which came first, the atom or God. Can not answer it. What I do know is that the atoms listen and obey God.

Who came first, really is of no consequence, because God at the present time is in command of the elements. Is that because he came first, and so the atoms obey their creator? OR is it because God is so righteous that the atoms reverence him, and because of their reverence for him, they obey him?

What is the answer?
 
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Yodas_Prodigy1

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Sorry, but we can not answer which came first, the atom or God. Can not answer it. What I do know is that the atoms listen and obey God.

Who came first, really is of no consequence, because God at the present time is in command of the elements. Is that because he came first, and so the atoms obey their creator? OR is it because God is so righteous that the atoms reverence him, and because of their reverence for him, they obey him?

What is the answer?

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The term is Ex nihilo. When God said, "Let there be light", that was the energy that helped propel everything else... The God of the Bible, not the LDS god, is the uncaused one who has caused all of creation...

Hebrews 11:3 New King James Version (NKJV)
3 By faith we understand that worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

Being righteous does not give a person omnipotent power...
 
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Peter1000

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In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The term is Ex nihilo. When God said, "Let there be light", that was the energy that helped propel everything else... The God of the Bible, not the LDS god, is the uncaused one who has caused all of creation...

Hebrews 11:3 New King James Version (NKJV)
3 By faith we understand that worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

Being righteous does not give a person omnipotent power...
Is the Greek words Ex nihilo written in the first verse of the bible?
 
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