Where did Cain find his wife? (his sister?)

[JohnClay]

As a former Young Earth Creationist, I am familiar with the YEC idea that Cain married his sister...
See: Who Was Cain’s Wife?

Looking into it more deeply there seem to be problems....

Genesis 4:25 says:

Adam made love to his wife again, and she gave birth to a son and named him Seth, saying, “God has granted me another child in place of Abel, since Cain killed him.”​

Genesis 5:4 says:

After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters
​

Seth seems to be Adam and Eve's third child....

Genesis 4:14 says:

".....whoever finds me will kill me"

This seems to have been said by Cain shortly after he killed Abel....

Genesis 4:17 talks about Cain's wife and their son Enoch and Cain building a city.... that implies lots of other people.

Also I wonder if the Enoch and Lamech, etc, in Genesis 4:17-24 are related to those in Genesis 5....

 

[Neogaia777]

It is my opinion that there were two races, etc, and that eventually, and maybe some starting with Cain, we eventually have hybrid children called Nephilim, etc...

And that the flood was regional, and was meant to wipe out all the original Sons of God (race, kind, etc), except for Noah and his family, and maybe Cain and his, depending on how far away they were, or that he (Cain) fled originally, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Sketcher]

As a former Young Earth Creationist, I am familiar with the YEC idea that Cain married his sister...
See: Who Was Cain’s Wife?

Looking into it more deeply there seem to be problems....

Genesis 4:25 says:

Adam made love to his wife again, and she gave birth to a son and named him Seth, saying, “God has granted me another child in place of Abel, since Cain killed him.”​

Genesis 5:4 says:

After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters
​

Seth seems to be Adam and Eve's third child....

Genesis 4:14 says:

".....whoever finds me will kill me"

This seems to have been said by Cain shortly after he killed Abel....

Genesis 4:17 talks about Cain's wife and their son Enoch and Cain building a city.... that implies lots of other people.

Also I wonder if the Enoch and Lamech, etc, in Genesis 4:17-24 are related to those in Genesis 5....

Very possible there was a daughter born between Cain and Seth, who was either found by him or sought him out after he left.

Seth was the first son born after Abel's death. Possible there were other brothers in between to avenge Abel, and at least one sister who would have been found by Cain or sought him out after he left.

 

[Neogaia777]

Very possible there was a daughter born between Cain and Seth, who was either found by him or sought him out after he left.

Seth was the first son born after Abel's death. Possible there were other brothers in between to avenge Abel, and at least one sister who would have been found by Cain or sought him out after he left.

How much of a "possibility" do you think...? Especially since the Bible makes "absolutely no mention of it", etc, but "certainly does elsewhere or after", etc...?

God Bless!

 

[Sketcher]

How much of a "possibility" do you think...? Especially since the Bible makes "absolutely no mention of it", etc, but "certainly does elsewhere or after", etc...?

God Bless!

Because it doesn't mention every son and daughter had by Adam by name, nor is it strictly said when exactly most of them were born.

 

[Neogaia777]

Because it doesn't mention every son and daughter had by Adam by name, nor is it strictly said when exactly most of them were born.

It would probably at least make mention of them having children in general before Seth, and before Cain killed Abel and ran away, if they did, just like it does in other places, or after that, etc, but it just "does not", and "does not at all", etc...

So, "how likely do you think", etc...?

Because I'm thinking "not very", etc...

God Bless!

 

[Sketcher]

It would probably at least make mention of them having children in general before Seth, and before Cain killed Abel and ran away, if they did, just like it does in other places, or after that, etc, but it just "does not" at all, etc...

So, "how likely do you think", etc...?

Because I'm thinking "not very", etc...

God Bless!

I believe there is more Biblical evidence for them than there is for a second race of men.

 

[Neogaia777]

I believe there is more Biblical evidence for them than there is for a second race of men.

Not really, but your entitled to your own opinion I guess, etc...

God Bless!

 

[SigurdReginson]

Reading this thread reminds me of when I was learning about YEC in my science curriculum from ACE (Southern Baptist curriculum). The whole thing felt like it was bending around itself all over the place in complicated ways just to have it make sense within the confines of a literalist interpretation of Genesis. It seems that it hasn't gotten any less complicated now when I compare it to the way it was back then.

My parents have seemed to wander away from YEC explanations of things lately, as well as other Christian folks I know in person. It's kind of interesting to see unfold, actually.

 

[Bradskii]

Reading this thread reminds me of when I was learning about YEC in my science curriculum.

In your science curriculum? Holy Toledo...

Edit: I just downloaded a curriculum from here: Youth curriculum debuts: 6-year free resource - Baptist Press

I'm now more than a little depressed.

 

[Ceallaigh]

I suppose there's the possibility that God populated the world with other people. But Adam and Eve were the first and set apart, just as Abraham was set apart to become the father of many nations. Not only did Cain get a wife, but he found her in the land of Nod, east of Eden and founded a city. To me that indicates a populated area. Genesis 5:1-2 says: "When God created mankind, he made them in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female and blessed them. And he named them “Mankind” when they were created".

 

[JohnClay]

....Genesis 5:1-2 says: "When God created mankind, he made them in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female and blessed them. And he named them “Mankind” when they were created".

That's similar to Genesis 1:27-28:

So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth....
​

Those verses are compatible with the idea that God created more than two humans initially....

 

[TedT]

As a former Young Earth Creationist, I am familiar with the YEC idea that Cain married his sister...

Please consider:

One of our problems with this story is that we do not know how old CAin and Abel were when they had their fight.

Because they are mentioned without any other child being mentioned it is assumed they are the only children and the first children. BUT that is not proven in the text...Genesis 4 is about Cain and Abel, not anyone else, so no one else is mentioned until their story is over.

But if Adam and Eve had a child each year and these children started to have their own children at age 15 or so, in a very short time, 125 years, (out of a 900 year lifespan that is) the exponential increase would be huge with 125 years being between 9 and 10 generations, on the order of between 20 billion and 289 billion people in this model.

So, if Cain and Abel were born during Adam and Eve's 100 year on earth, it might have had a very large population indeed by that time.

Also it is not proven by the text that these two were just kids when the fight happened. All the cutesy little pictures in your children's bible may be bogus as, well, completely bogus. Figments of the imagination and orthodox bias. This may nt have been just a kid's mistake and childish anger; it may have been religious war.

Cain was trying to supplant the religion of the coats of skins for righteousness instituted by GOD for Adam and Eve with his first fruits fertility / weather cult of the Ba'als and Asherah (groves).

If they were 25 years old themselves by the time this religious war came to a head, how many more people were populating the earth, given exponential growth?

 

[JohnClay]

....Because they are mentioned without any other child being mentioned it is assumed they are the only children and the first children....

There are other reasons to think this....

Genesis 4:25 says:

Adam made love to his wife again, and she gave birth to a son and named him Seth, saying, “God has granted me another child in place of Abel, since Cain killed him.”​

Genesis 5:4 says:

After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters
​

I'm not aware of any hints that there were more than two children before Seth other than the theory that Cain married his sister.... Genesis 4:25 seems to be saying that Seth was their third child....

BTW about having lots of children... Noah lived to 950 years old but I think he only had three children....

 

[SigurdReginson]

But if Adam and Eve had a child each year and these children started to have their own children at age 15 or so, in a very short time, 125 years, (out of a 900 year lifespan that is) the exponential increase would be huge with 125 years being between 9 and 10 generations, on the order of between 20 billion and 289 billion people in this model.

Holy smokes!!! Eve sounds like she's pumping out kids like a factory.

 

[JohnClay]

But if Adam and Eve had a child each year and these children started to have their own children at age 15 or so, in a very short time, 125 years, (out of a 900 year lifespan that is) the exponential increase would be huge with 125 years being between 9 and 10 generations, on the order of between 20 billion and 289 billion people in this model.

Well God did tell them to fill the earth....

 

[ChetSinger]

There are other reasons to think this....

Genesis 4:25 says:

Adam made love to his wife again, and she gave birth to a son and named him Seth, saying, “God has granted me another child in place of Abel, since Cain killed him.”​

Genesis 5:4 says:

After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters
​

I'm not aware of any hints that there were more than two children before Seth other than the theory that Cain married his sister.... Genesis 4:25 seems to be saying that Seth was their third child....

BTW about having lots of children... Noah lived to 950 years old but I think he only had three children....

All we really know is that Cain was born prior to Abel. And that 130 years passed before Seth was born. And that Genesis 5:4 says Adam and Eve had more children than those three.

That's it. We're not told, for example:

• Whether Cain and Abel were the first two children.
• Whether Abel was born immediately next in line after Cain.
• How many years passed before the murder took place, other than it was less than 130.
• Whether Cain was already married when he killed his brother.

Given the paucity of data we're given I see no textual objection to Cain marrying a sister or a niece.

As I've read the Bible over the years I've become slow to draw conclusions from silence. I've seen too many examples where it leads to bad theology.

 

[ChetSinger]

Well God did tell them to fill the earth....

Btw, a footnote in the Works of Josephus states that an old Jewish tradition says that Adam and Eve had 33 sons and 23 daughters.

 

[JohnClay]

All we really know is that Cain was born prior to Abel. And that 130 years passed before Seth was born. And that Genesis 5:4 says Adam and Eve had more children than those three.

Genesis 5:4 says "After Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters".

The word "after" is very significant....

Genesis 4:25 says:

Adam made love to his wife again, and she gave birth to a son and named him Seth, saying, “God has granted me another child in place of Abel, since Cain killed him.”
​

I think this strongly implies that Seth was their third child.

Normally the Bible would say if a sister was involved... e.g.
Genesis 4:22

Zillah also had a son, Tubal-Cain, who forged all kinds of tools out of bronze and iron. Tubal-Cain’s sister was Naamah.​

Whether Cain was already married when he killed his brother.

I guess you think it is possible that Cain and Abel had a sister at that time.... which I think conflicts with Genesis 4:25, etc....

 

[coffee4u]

His wife was his sister.
This was normal up until the law of Leviticus. It is only at that point that God brings in laws to do with inter family marriage. My guess is because of mutations.
Abraham was married to his half sister and at that time this was legal and normal.
Something only becomes sinful once God deems it to be sinful.

People need to stop looking at this with 2021 eyes and realize the time and culture was different. God put his laws upon our hearts, so that we naturally find incest repulsive. Before that it was seen as completely normal.
Society changes and what was once abhorrent is viewed as normal and what once was normal can be viewed as abhorrent.