Where are the men of God who will wait for sex???

[Tiredknight]

They are using the Bible and exact scriptural language. I read it myself to verify their claims. That's what scientific minded individuals do, verify the claims of another.

You can do this, I believe you can do this.

You would rather believe what organization that believes that America is till owned bu england and the Crown; believes that we are all under the authority of the Crown temple, RATHER then what the bible says...

 

[mkgal1]

But Love is not above Christ.

Placing Love above christ in any way shape or form, is idolatry. Devotion to Christ and following HIS commands generates Love and all the laws and prophets hang on, "Loving God with all yoru heart soul and mind, and Loving others" but it is not above Christ. NOTHING is above Christ.

Right......love isn't ABOVE Christ----but, Christ IS love (as He is God---God is love).

We can't idolize genuine love (as it's God's very nature).

Here's an applicable article. I believe when Christ speaks of "sexual immorality" and "fornication" that is lust (desires separated from His will.....His genuine love).

How does one know the difference between Lust and Love?

For example (Hypothetically speaking, of course):
•if someone has sex before marriage but they have true love only God knows if it's sin or not.
•if someone has sex after marriage but they never loved the person just lusted the person it is a sin, because LUST is a sin.
•if someone has sex after marriage and they loved the person it is NOT a sin, because, even if there was minor lust (which of course, with hormones there always will be), Love covers a multitude of wrongs.

How does that "someone" know whether they have love or lust (in their heart)?


*Side-note: My main focus with this question is about the differences between lust and love, not the topic of premarital sex— that was just an example I used to help further get my point across! Thankyou!

Growing up Nazarene, I was always told that it was one of those "If you have to ask..." things; the first example you give is dubious-yes, love is crucial to a Christian relationship, but certain things come first, like a solid commitment and statement of unity, rather than after.

To answer this from a doctrinal perspective requires a doctrinal perspective on love. So we ought to turn to 1 Corinthians, chapter 13, Paul's famous homily on Charity (Christian love):

4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
By contrast, the word lust has a wider meaning than simply "unwholesome sexual desire." For example, from Mark 19, where Jesus explains the Parable of the Sower:

18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,

19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
We see "lusts" (plural) used here in the company of "the cares of this world" and being deceived (led astray) by seeking after riches. It speaks not of unwholesome sexual desire, but of unwholesome desires in general, not too different from gluttony or covetousness. The essence of lust is greed.

Contrast this greed with the attributes of Charity as described by Paul. Longsuffering, kindness, an absence of envy, ostentation and flashiness. "Not easily provoked," bearing and enduring all things with faith and hope. Distill all of these virtues down to their essence, and you get selflessness, the very antithesis of greed.

Greed is a hunger. It consumes in order to enlarge itself. But charity, pure Christian love, is selfless. It builds up those around it.

So how can this be applied to matters of the heart? What is the difference between real love, and lust?

Lust is greed. Lust says "this person is desirable, and I desire to have them, to further my own interests through interaction with them. I want to take pleasure from them, because it will make me feel good."

Love, on the other hand, is constructive. It says, "there is good in this person, and I want to work with them, to build something together with them that is greater and more beautiful than what either of us could accomplish alone, and I would wish to put forth the effort required to see it through, even if it requires some personal sacrifice on my part." Lust would never dream of that last bit!~bible - What is the difference between Lust and Love in the heart? - Christianity Stack Exchange

Another way to look at it.....our enemy's agenda is to steal; kill; destroy (lust does all that). In contrast......Christ came to give us LIFE (genuine love does that).

 

[seeingeyes]

But Love is not above Christ.

Placing Love above christ in any way shape or form, is idolatry. Devotion to Christ and following HIS commands generates Love and all the laws and prophets hang on, "Loving God with all yoru heart soul and mind, and Loving others" but it is not above Christ. NOTHING is above Christ.

This makes no sense. That's like saying you should put out the flame before putting out the fire.

Remove love from Christ, and what do you have left?

 

[technofox]

You would rather believe what organization that believes that America is till owned bu england and the Crown; believes that we are all under the authority of the Crown temple, RATHER then what the bible says...

I give up. I supplied you with scripture about sexual sin and you are focused on other crap to avoid reading something that may enlighten you about scripture. You maybe surprised but the author supports your belief on premarital sex, even though there is no scriptural context to support that belief. Very sad indeed that you choose ignorance.

 

[QueSeraSera]

Yeah... and I'm pretty sure Christ is the one who put it 'up there'.

Right like right underneath Him.

1st there is Christ .

Next comes love .

Or is love 3rd ?

Because we all know Christ is separate from love .

 

[QueSeraSera]

I give up. I supplied you with scripture about sexual sin and you are focused on other crap to avoid reading something that may enlighten you about scripture. You maybe surprised but the author supports your belief on premarital sex, even though there is no scriptural context to support that belief. Very sad indeed that you choose ignorance.

For the record I support encouraging abstinence . However I do not believe not abstaining is "sin" at least not in all cases . I appreciate the article including the many Bible references that clarified a few things somewhat for me.

I also support encouraging safe sex where abstinence is not chosen .

I think condemnation and judgment is more sinful than showing compassion and grace in that circumstance.

 

[Tiredknight]

I give up. I supplied you with scripture about sexual sin and you are focused on other crap to avoid reading something that may enlighten you about scripture. You maybe surprised but the author supports your belief on premarital sex, even though there is no scriptural context to support that belief. Very sad indeed that you choose ignorance.

Really there is no biblical support that says that Premarital sex is sinful?

Why would I read ANYTHING put out by corrupt and fallacious organizations...

Would you go to the Mormons for info on the deity of Christ?

Would you go to the Muslims about the blood atonement of Christ? Teaching by false teachers is still false...

The ONLY truth is the word of God. And God says plenty about sex before marriage.

1 Corinthians 7:2 states that the "cure" for Sexual immorality is marriage. The issue that Paul is addressing, is the church in Corinth has a surge of people just have sex willy nilly. Since this is the church where the Corinthian goddess of sex and fertility has it is home temple and temple harlots would go around the city and engage in sex with anyone for money to cover temple costs.

Paul state and condemns sex out side of marriage by stating that each man should have only his wife and a wife only her husband. THIS IS THE PRECEDENT SET BY GOD about sex out side of marriage and is described as sexual immorality. Since all other verse referring to sexual immorality only use the term Sexual immorality and it is the same term through out scripture even the term that Paul uses in 1 Cor 7:2, a logical and reasonable person would see that ALL sexual immorality is condemned in those verse. THUS sex before marriage is condemned as Paul includes it in his teachings in 1 Cor 7:2.

Also Hebrews 13:4 indicates that only Sex between husband and wife is the only sex that is righteous and honors God. As stated that all who are sexually immoral and adulterous will be judged in the matter.

 

[QueSeraSera]

The issue that Paul is addressing, is the church in Corinth has a surge of people just have sex willy nilly. Since this is the church where the Corinthian goddess of sex and fertility has it is home temple and temple harlots would go around the city and engage in sex with anyone for money to cover temple costs.

But not all sex before marriage is sex willy nilly with harlots or with anyone and every one.

Is Techno currently having sex with his soon to be bride willy nilly? A prostitute who worships the Goddess of sex ? Is he having sex with "anyone and every one?"

Why would he (and his future wife) be categorized that way ? Its apples and oranges pre-marital sex .

 

[mkgal1]

I think condemnation and judgment is more sinful than showing compassion and grace in that circumstance.

QFT.....that is something the Bible is absolutely clear on.

 

[technofox]

For the record I support encouraging abstinence . However I do not believe not abstaining is "sin" at least not in all cases . I appreciate the article including the many Bible references that clarified a few things somewhat for me. I also support encouraging safe sex where abstinence is not chosen . I think condemnation and judgment is more sinful than showing compassion and grace in that circumstance.

I totally agree. I will be teaching my kids that abstinence is best, but I also want them to know that there are ways to protect themselves if they should happen to chose otherwise.

Like I said earlier, I don't want to be on teen mom with a cross in the background

I just wish Knight would get a clue that I respect his belief and the OP's. It is their conscience, just like they choose to eat pork or sit in a seat where a woman with menstruation sat. It may be a sin to some, but not others.

 

[mkgal1]

Really there is no biblical support that says that Premarital sex is sinful?



1 Corinthians 7:2 states that the "cure" for Sexual immorality is marriage.

That's not what my Bible says (any of the versions I have). Look for yourself:

http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/7-2.htm

 

[QueSeraSera]

Paul state and condemns sex out side of marriage by stating that each man should have only his wife and a wife only her husband.

I don't think his suggestion for a remedy for sexual immorality meant ANY sex outside of marriage was sexual immorality. And apparently knowhere in the Bible does it state that.

Where in the Bible does it say ANY sex between two people who are not married to each other is immoral ? He said get married to avoid sexual immorality . That does not equal having sex before you are married is immoral.

If it was that simple why all the specifics ?

If you are not married to each other its immoral to have sex would cover adultery and prostitution .No need to separate those . Then I guess you would have to have guidlines as to who can can and can not marry . I.E you cant marry your sister ,daughter ,aunt ,mother etc..(or your sheep)

 

[Tiredknight]

But not all sex before marriage is sex willy nilly with harlots or with anyone and every one.

Is Techno currently having sex with his soon to be bride willy nilly? A postitute who worships the Goddess of sex ? Is he having sex with "anyone and every one?"

Why would he (and his future wife) be categorized that way ? Its apples and oranges pre-marital sex .

IT is not. The issue is that people are burning in their lust and passion. That is exactly what Paul says.

"
7 Now concerning the things of which you wrote to me:
It is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband. 3 Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment. 7 For I wish that all men were even as I myself. But each one has his own gift from God, one in this manner and another in that.
8 But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; 9 but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion."

Paul is addressing the sexual Immorality in the church of Corinth. The church is nestled in the heart of sex land in Greece. People have no self control and fall to sin. He warning people to get married and avoid sin. THOSE with correlation with Hebrews, all sex out side of marriage is sin.

Why is that so hard to see? what is that so hard to understand? Why is people's pride so puffed up they are unwilling to see sin for what it is? why is to so offensive to call out sin?

Where is your point of Contention with Hebrews 13:4

"4Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous."

I am not judging people or condemning anyone. The bible is. I am not speaking against people who have failed or fallen, I am not speaking against people who have fallen and since repented of their sin. I am speaking against those who willingly live in sin, who choose sin over Christ.

If a man professes to be a christian which I believe the person has said they are, 1 john states that if they continue in sin the love of God is not in them and they are liars.



If you are so hot and bothered by this let me ask you these things:

Do you believe the bible to be the word of God?

Do you believe the bible to be truth?

Do you understand what Hebrews 13:4 says?

Do you understand what 1 Cor 7:2-9 says?

Do you understand what 1 Cor 6:18 says?

do you understand what Gal 5:18-21 says?

What about 1 thess 4:3?

Eph 5:3?

Eph 5:1-33?

 

[QueSeraSera]

I totally agree. I will be teaching my kids that abstinence is best, but I also want them to know that there are ways to protect themselves if they should happen to chose otherwise.

Like I said earlier, I don't want to be on teen mom with a cross in the background

I just wish Knight would get a clue that I respect his belief and the OP's. It is their conscience, just like they choose to eat pork or sit in a seat where a woman with menstruation sat. It may be a sin to some, but not others.

We should teach abstinence is best and WHY . Give them a reason . My reason? Even with protection fragile emotions for most men and women are involved. The same as after marriage . The relationship takes on a completely different meaning .

I wouldn't say the reason why is its 'evil" unless you are married Paul said .Paul never said that .

I wouldn't say because its "willy nilly" if you aren't married . Because it isn't and thats the point. It can mean very much and create deeper feelings with a person not destined to be your spouse . The pain of break up 10 fold.

I wouldn't say because you might as well be a temple prostitute earning the money to worship a sex goddess or the John buying a pagan sex idol worshipper. I wouldn't say because you might as well be having sex with your fathers 5 th wife .

Because most times that is not how premarital sex occurs in our 17 year olds .

 

[QueSeraSera]

2 Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.

What does the Bible say sexual immorality is though ? Premarital sex ? Where ?

 

[Tiredknight]

We should teach abstinence is best and WHY . Give them a reason . My reason? Even with protection fragile emotions for most men and women are involved. The same as after marriage . The relationship takes on a completely different meaning .

I wouldn't say the reason why is its 'evil" unless you are married Paul said .Paul never said that .

I wouldn't say because its "willy nilly" if you aren't married . Because it isn't and thats the point. It can mean very much and create deeper feelings with a person not destined to be your spouse . The pain of break up 10 fold.

I wouldn't say because you might as well be a temple prostitute earning the money to worship a sex goddess or the John buying a pagan sex idol worshipper. I wouldn't say because you might as well be having sex with your fathers 5 th wife .

Because most times that is not how premarital sex occurs in our 17 year olds .

more strawmen Falcies. you are twisting my words and demonizing what I am saying to make your self look better and your argument work for you. Instead of addressing the facts.

All the verses I presented deal with sexual immorality and Hebrews denotes as sex out side of marriage as sin and is sexual immorality.

never once did I say that this man's fiance is a temple harlot or a prostitute. Shame on you for even thinking, I consider her as such. I think a lot more highly about women and my sister's in Christ than that. Which i assume she is a Believer.

 

[Tiredknight]

What does the Bible say sexual immorality is though ? Premarital sex ? Where ?

Hebrews 13:4

 

[technofox]

We should teach abstinence is best and WHY . Give them a reason . My reason? Even with protection fragile emotions for most men and women are involved. The same as after marriage . The relationship takes on a completely different meaning .

I wouldn't say the reason why is its 'evil" unless you are married Paul said .Paul never said that .

I wouldn't say because its "willy nilly" if you aren't married . Because it isn't and thats the point. It can mean very much and create deeper feelings with a person not destined to be your spouse . The pain of break up 10 fold.

I wouldn't say because you might as well be a temple prostitute earning the money to worship a sex goddess or the John buying a pagan sex idol worshipper. I wouldn't say because you might as well be having sex with your fathers 5 th wife .

Because most times that is not how premarital sex occurs in our 17 year olds .

I agree with you. I don't want my future kids to have sex unless they are going to commit to that person and get married, but I also don't want them to be ignorant of birth control either. To me its a balance and my fiance agrees. I believe sex is part of a loving relationship, not just something to scratch the itch (that is what masturbation is for when not in a relationship, lol).

 

[technofox]

Hebrews 13:4

1 Corinthians 6:9–11
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (ESV)

Lets see, umm... under a legal system Sexual Immorality is ambiguous, thus requires further study. So since we are faced with ambiguity, lets go to other passage, particularly those of the OT since they are more specific:

Leviticus 18 (New International Version)


Leviticus 18
New International Version (NIV)

Unlawful Sexual Relations

18 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘I am the Lord your God. 3 You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices. 4 You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the Lord your God. 5 Keep my decrees and laws, for the person who obeys them will live by them. I am the Lord.

6 “‘No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the Lord.

7 “‘Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her.

8 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s wife; that would dishonor your father.

9 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere.

10 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter; that would dishonor you.

11 “‘Do not have sexual relations with the daughter of your father’s wife, born to your father; she is your sister.

12 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s sister; she is your father’s close relative.

13 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your mother’s sister, because she is your mother’s close relative.

14 “‘Do not dishonor your father’s brother by approaching his wife to have sexual relations; she is your aunt.

15 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law. She is your son’s wife; do not have relations with her.

16 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your brother’s wife; that would dishonor your brother.

17 “‘Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have sexual relations with either her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness.

18 “‘Do not take your wife’s sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living.

19 “‘Do not approach a woman to have sexual relations during the uncleanness of her monthly period.

20 “‘Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor’s wife and defile yourself with her.

21 “‘Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molek, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the Lord.

22 “‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

23 “‘Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.

24 “‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the foreigners residing among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. 28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.

29 “‘Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people. 30 Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the Lord your God.’”

Leviticus 18
New King James Version (NKJV)
Laws of Sexual Morality

18 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘I am the Lord your God. 3 According to the doings of the land of Egypt, where you dwelt, you shall not do; and according to the doings of the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you, you shall not do; nor shall you walk in their ordinances. 4 You shall observe My judgments and keep My ordinances, to walk in them: I am the Lord your God. 5 You shall therefore keep My statutes and My judgments, which if a man does, he shall live by them: I am the Lord.

6 ‘None of you shall approach anyone who is near of kin to him, to uncover his nakedness: I am the Lord. 7 The nakedness of your father or the nakedness of your mother you shall not uncover. She is your mother; you shall not uncover her nakedness. 8 The nakedness of your father’s wife you shall not uncover; it is your father’s nakedness. 9 The nakedness of your sister, the daughter of your father, or the daughter of your mother, whether born at home or elsewhere, their nakedness you shall not uncover. 10 The nakedness of your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter, their nakedness you shall not uncover; for theirs is your own nakedness. 11 The nakedness of your father’s wife’s daughter, begotten by your father—she is your sister—you shall not uncover her nakedness. 12 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s sister; she is near of kin to your father. 13 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother’s sister, for she is near of kin to your mother. 14 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s brother. You shall not approach his wife; she is your aunt. 15 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law—she is your son’s wife—you shall not uncover her nakedness. 16 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother’s wife; it is your brother’s nakedness. 17 You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, nor shall you take her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter, to uncover her nakedness. They are near of kin to her. It is wickedness. 18 Nor shall you take a woman as a rival to her sister, to uncover her nakedness while the other is alive.

19 ‘Also you shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness as long as she is in her customary impurity. 20 Moreover you shall not lie carnally with your neighbor’s wife, to defile yourself with her. 21 And you shall not let any of your descendants pass through the fire to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God: I am the Lord. 22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. 23 Nor shall you mate with any animal, to defile yourself with it. Nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it. It is perversion.

24 ‘Do not defile yourselves with any of these things; for by all these the nations are defiled, which I am casting out before you. 25 For the land is defiled; therefore I visit the punishment of its iniquity upon it, and the land vomits out its inhabitants. 26 You shall therefore keep My statutes and My judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations, either any of your own nation or any stranger who dwells among you 27 (for all these abominations the men of the land have done, who were before you, and thus the land is defiled), 28 lest the land vomit you out also when you defile it, as it vomited out the nations that were before you. 29 For whoever commits any of these abominations, the persons who commit them shall be cut off from among their people.

30 ‘Therefore you shall keep My ordinance, so that you do not commit any of these abominable customs which were committed before you, and that you do not defile yourselves by them: I am the Lord your God.’”

I hope this helps clarify your misunderstanding. As for the OP, I hope she listens to the core advice and that is to seek a loving relationship that will honor God

 

[Tiredknight]

:snip:

So now we have to follow ceremony levitical law in order to follow Christ?

Hebrews 13:4 is not ambiguous. It says that marriage is honorable and the marriage bed is undefiled that implies that sex inside marriage is honorable. And the following sentence implies that Sex out side marriage is sexual immorality.

Hence why the marriage bed is undefiled. Thus sex out side of marriage would defile it...