Where are all the creatures?

[Phred]

So if evolution is false then tell me...

Where are all the animals?

We have fossils now of hundreds of thousands of different creatures. Giant ones and small ones. None of whom exist any longer. Yet we are assured that God created the world in its present form and, even though mankind caused something called, "the fall" how exactly did this infect the perfect animals that were created? And even if it did, why would an uber-predator like Allosaurus lose to a lion? Or to men with spears?

No, if animals were created perfect by a perfect God then they were also created to fulfill specific ecological niches. All perfectly synchronized in perfect nature. All the animals we've found fossils of, dinosaurs and ice-age beasts... you name it, should not have gone extinct. And those that went extinct should not have gone extinct. Not if they were perfect and perfectly created for their environments.

It's never made sense to me how on one hand creationists have to admit the existence of all these extinct creatures and then on the other still claim they were perfectly created by God. A perfectly created creature doesn't go extinct.

So where are all the creatures that should be running around today?

 

[AV1611VET]

A perfectly created creature doesn't go extinct.

Does that include the plants as well?

Ever heard of the Fall?

The gene pool is corrupt -- this means no more 'perfectly created creatures'.

So where are all the creatures that should be running around today?

They died?

Romans 5:12a Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin;

 

[Skaloop]

Does that include the plants as well?

Ever heard of the Fall?

The gene pool is corrupt -- this means no more 'perfectly created creatures'.

They died?

All in the past ~4000 years? Or in the ~2000 years between the Fall and the Flood?

 

[AV1611VET]

All in the past ~4000 years? Or in the ~2000 years between the Fall and the Flood?

} Ya -- how 'bout that!?

 

[Skaloop]

} Ya -- how 'bout that!?

I was hoping for an actual answer to the questions. Because I am curious about when, according to the Biblical timeline, all the extinctions took place. Obviously not before the Fall, since everything then was very good. So prior to the Fall, T. rex was running around with sabre-tooth tigers and woolly mammoths and tiktaalik and fowled bats and four-legged grasshoppers and behemoths with navels and all the other species that have ever existed. Sometime after the Fall, 99% of these species went extinct. Did this primarily happen between the Fall and the Flood, during the Flood, or after the Flood? Or was it spread out evenly?

 

[AV1611VET]

I was hoping for an actual answer to the questions. Because I am curious about when, according to the Biblical timeline, all the extinctions took place. Obviously not before the Fall, since everything then was very good. So prior to the Fall, T. rex was running around with sabre-tooth tigers and woolly mammoths and tiktaalik and fowled bats and four-legged grasshoppers and behemoths with navels and all the other species that have ever existed. Sometime after the Fall, 99% of these species went extinct. Did this primarily happen between the Fall and the Flood, during the Flood, or after the Flood? Or was it spread out evenly?

Assuming T. Rex and Sabey even existed prior to the Flood, here's the 411 on this, from my perspective:

Prior to the Flood, the earth was one tropical paradise.

This may have been due to a water canopy refracting the rays of the sun around the earth, or, it could have been -- instead of a canopy -- a giant ice cube or ice ball circling the earth, and the tropical paradise on earth was due to [pulling rank] God sustaining the climate [/pulling rank] -- whatever.

In any case, the earth was one tropical paradise prior to the Flood.

After the Flood, polar climatology appeared, and the dinosaurs couldn't handle the new climate, so they eventually died out.

EXTREMELY FAST -- (but VERY SLOW in God's standards) -- repopulation of the earth occurred, due to God blessing Noah (and, by extension, the animals) with fertility.

Notice the blessing here.

Genesis 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

Notice how this blessing comes in the same verse as the command to replenish the earth?

I believe the specific blessing is in the form of fertility that would make octomom envious.

God, of course, handled the fertility of the animals.

Notice what God tells Ezekiel here:

Ezekiel 36:11 And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

Note also what God tells Moses here:

Deuteronomy 7:22 And the LORD thy God will put out those nations before thee by little and little: thou mayest not consume them at once, lest the beasts of the field increase upon thee.

 

[RickG]

You know. I bet if I begin posting in one of the forums where scripture is the specific topic, things about why scripture is wrong because of dating methods, climatology, paloentology, geology and a bunch of other ology's other than theology, that would be rather frowned upon. Can I get an amen?

 

[AV1611VET]

You know. I bet if I begin posting in one of the forums where scripture is the specific topic, things about why scripture is wrong because of dating methods, climatology, paloentology, geology and a bunch of other ology's other than theology, that would be rather frowned upon. Can I get an amen?

To be honest, I think you'd burn out before too long and leave on your own.

The Great Commission deals with taking the Spiritual to the non-spiritual; not the other way around.

In fact, Split Rock and I have a thread where we both switched sides, and I posted like an atheistic evolutionist, and he posted like a born-again creationist.

Rocky won, as I gave up after only a couple of days. I was impressed with his knowledge and stamina.

 

[Skaloop]

Assuming T. Rex and Sabey even existed prior to the Flood, here's the 911 on this, from my perspective:

If they didn't exist prior to the Flood, when did they come about? According to what you said below, dinosaurs couldn't survive the new climate. So if they didn't exist pre-Flood, and couldn't survive post-Flood, how come there were so many of them spread out across pretty much all of the post-flood regions?

Prior to the Flood, the earth was one tropical paradise.

This may have been due to a water canopy refracting the rays of the sun around the earth, or, it could have been -- instead of a canopy -- a giant ice cube or ice ball circling the earth, and the tropical paradise on earth was due to [pulling rank] God sustaining the climate [/pulling rank] -- whatever.

In any case, the earth was one tropical paradise prior to the Flood.

After the Flood, polar climatology appeared, and the dinosaurs couldn't handle the new climate, so they eventually died out.

So between the Fall and the Flood, Earth was a tropical paradise, albeit a paradise with death and imperfection? Did any animals go extinct during that time?

And while the post-flood climate change may explain the end of the dinosaurs, what about the now-extinct mammals, many of which were well suited to survive the polar climatology? What about birds or reptiles who would be as equally susceptible to climate change as the dinosaurs?

 

[AV1611VET]

If they didn't exist prior to the Flood, when did they come about?

After the Flood?

According to what you said below, dinosaurs couldn't survive the new climate.

Correct.

So if they didn't exist pre-Flood, and couldn't survive post-Flood, how come there were so many of them spread out across pretty much all of the post-flood regions?

Appeared -- did God's will -- vanished.

Perhaps T. Rex & company were put here to keep the population in check, as well as part of God's clean-up program.

So between the Fall and the Flood, Earth was a tropical paradise, albeit a paradise with death and imperfection?

Yes, sir.

Did any animals go extinct during that time?

Dunno -- but I would say 'yes' to that, just on principle.

And while the post-flood climate change may explain the end of the dinosaurs, what about the now-extinct mammals, many of which were well suited to survive the polar climatology?

All gone -- (assuming, of course, you mean the non-avian type).

What about birds or reptiles who would be as equally susceptible to climate change as the dinosaurs?

All gone.

 

[Skaloop]

Perhaps T. Rex & company were put here to keep the population in check, as well as part of God's clean-up program.

Thanks for all the other answers. This one struck me as odd (in a funny sort of way), though. God needed dinosaurs et al. to keep the population in check... a population of 8.

Plus, if God (as you stated earlier) blessed them and told them to be fruitful and multiply, why would He impede that with this population control measure? And how long would He need the dinosaurs around to keep the population in check? Considering how much the population has increased (nearly a billion times more people in a few millennia), it doesn't seem to be a very effective measure.

Oh, and one other thing caught my attention:

Appeared -- did God's will -- vanished.

Does this mean God did a second wave of Creation? If not, how exactly did these dinosaurs make their appearance.

 

[AV1611VET]

Thanks for all the other answers.

You're most welcome --

This one struck me as odd (in a funny sort of way), though. God needed dinosaurs et al. to keep the population in check... a population of 8.

God doesn't need anything; what He does, how He does it, and the order that He does it in is strictly up to Him.

Look what you're saying, Skaloop.

You seem to be implying that God should have "pulled rank" on everything and just moved to the epilog; but this is not God's will.

And given that you guys don't like I using the term "pulled rank", I'd say there's something wrong somewhere.

This catch-22 bologna you guys like to try and put us in gets old.

Does this mean God did a second wave of Creation? If not, how exactly did these dinosaurs make their appearance.

QV please:

The distance is tangential to the solution.

Have you seen my thread where I explained all of this?

A pregnant Satyr, dragon, xyzeeiform, or whatever, gets off the Ark and, in a short period of time, goes around and "drops off" (i.e., gives birth) to a 'kind' that eventually becomes these different species of animals you're wondering about.

Sound silly? Good -- we're getting somewhere.

I don't care if they were inchworms, their predecessors could have been deposited 7000 miles from the Ark overnight.

Okay -- [shrugs].

By divine courier.

Why, of course! And God overlooked that, right? Just like He had to step in at the last minute and save Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego from a burning, fiery furnace, heated to seven times its thermal capacity?

Oh.

Let me give you some advice, Frumious: Give up.

 

[Skaloop]

You're most welcome --

God doesn't need anything; what He does, how He does it, and the order that He does it in is strictly up to Him.

Look what you're saying, Skaloop.

You seem to be implying that God should have "pulled rank" on everything and just moved to the epilog; but this is not God's will.

Care to address the part about blessing them and telling them to be fruitful and multiply, then putting in place measures to restrict said multiplication?

And my intent wasn't to suggest that God needed to do anything (I should have been clearer) or that He should or should not have pulled rank, but rather to ask why any population control was used at all, considering the small population size at the time and the directive to increase the population.

And given that you guys don't like I using the term "pulled rank", I'd say there's something wrong somewhere.

When have I ever said I don't like the term "pulled rank"? When has any of the other "guys"?

This catch-22 bologna you guys like to try and put us in gets old.

I wasn't trying to put you in anything; I was hoping for an answer or clarification because the things you mentioned do appear on the surface to be conflicting with each other. And if it is a catch-22, it's only because your own previous explanations and answers have painted you into a corner. You're the one who stated, in the same post, that God wanted to both (a) control the population and (b) have the population increase. That's not me putting you in anything, that's you putting yourself there.

If you have an explanation, I'd love to hear it. If you don't, just say so and I'll move on.

 

[AV1611VET]

If you have an explanation, I'd love to hear it. If you don't, just say so and I'll move on.

Then move on, please; I don't like your science inquisition.

It's nothing more than vent & ridicule behind a question mark.

Oftentimes, I feel badly answering you guys' questions, as they have a blasphemous nature about them.

 

[Naraoia]

After the Flood, polar climatology appeared, and the dinosaurs couldn't handle the new climate, so they eventually died out.

Forgive me for poking holes in your story, but (1) many dinosaurs did live in cool climates, (2) the tropics still exist.

(Then again, so do dinosaurs, technically )

 

[AV1611VET]

Forgive me for poking holes in your story, but (1) many dinosaurs did live in cool climates, (2) the tropics still exist.

(Then again, so do dinosaurs, technically )

Naraoia, for the record, I believe there are still dinosaurs in existence today.

Maybe a very small pocket of them, but I believe they do exist.

You're not poking holes in my story --

 

[AV1611VET]

But that's just it you never answer any questions you answer questions with questions and it's you who's blaspheming, you are making your God out to be stupid, if I was a Christian I would pull you up on it.

'Pull me up on it' then.

Don't wait for another Christian to do it.

If I'm wrong, tell me -- everyone else does.

 

[USincognito]

"here's the 911 on this"

If you have such trouble with simple sayings, not wonder you can't get the science right.

It's 411.

 

[Jazer]

Naraoia, for the record, I believe there are still dinosaurs in existence today.

The philippines is just about on the opposite side of the earth from where I live. I went to about the most remote place on the planet you could go and do you know what I found? I found an ATM machine with a very friendly armed guard and the little booth the machine was in had an air conditioner. Nice theory about the dinosaurs but a place where food would grow for a dinosaur would be a place people would want to move to in order to grow food. They tell me that in a place like China where you have a billion hungry people, they will eat anything. The Philippines is on 1000 islands and I was on a bigger island. But they have explored most of all the little islands by now. Oh by the way remember that photo in National Geographic about the native people running around half naked? They are people who make a living dressing up that way for tourists to pay them to take their photos. The girl most likely has a victoria secret under that she bought at the mall under that native outfit.

Unless you want to count the Komodo dragons:

 

[Split Rock]

In fact, Split Rock and I have a thread where we both switched sides, and I posted like an atheistic evolutionist, and he posted like a born-again creationist.

Rocky won, as I gave up after only a couple of days. I was impressed with his knowledge and stamina.

Thank you! That was a fun thread.