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Where Abortion meets the Death Penalty

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by Usethepen, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. Usethepen

    Usethepen Newbie

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    Why do we execute women in the US ?
    If there is even one male prison guard at the female prison,
    the woman could be pregnant at the time of execution.
    There is no way to be 100% sure that she is not pregnant.
    Most Republicans believe that life begins at conception and
    most people who support the death penalty are Republicans.

    Can we abolish the death penalty for women in the US?
     
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  2. Paradoxum

    Paradoxum Liberty, Equality, Solidarity!

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    I'm not sure about your argument, but the death penalty is wrong. It costs too much for one.

    Also I think it is unsafe to give the government unnecessary control over life and death. The death penalty is clearly unnecessary. By which I mean it isn't being used in an emergency situation like the defence of others, or war.

    The person could turn out to be innocent, but we might only find this out after their death. It is more than bad luck to have the government unnecessarily murdering innocent people. Giving the government control over the life and death of its citizens unnecessarily, could be abused by a corrupt government much more.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  3. jayem

    jayem Naturalist

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    AFAIK, death row inmates are quite closely monitored. As are the correctional officers employed there (for their own safety.) I think the chance of a prisoner being impregnated by a guard near the time of her execution is vanishingly small.

    And anyway, absent a Constitutional amendment, it would violate equal protection to impose capital punishment for men, but not for women.
     
  4. Grizzly

    Grizzly Enemy of Christmas Supporter

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    Darn. I thought this thread was going to be about fetuses who had been convicted of murder.
     
  5. Glas Ridire

    Glas Ridire Well-Known Member

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    We should abolish the death penalty but it has nothing to do with the OP
     
  6. Usethepen

    Usethepen Newbie

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    Where the Constitution is not written clearly it becomes a Rorschach test.
    You see what you want to see.
     
  7. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

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    Is there a big problem with pregnant women getting executed in America?
    I was not aware of that happening at all.
     
  8. Usethepen

    Usethepen Newbie

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    Women allege widespread sexual abuse at Alabama prison, nonprofit group says

    By the CNN Wire Staff

    Tue May 22, 2012

    (CNN) -- Male guards at an Alabama women's prison engaged in the widespread sexual abuse of female inmates for years, a nonprofit group alleged in a formal complaint filed with the Justice Department on Tuesday.
    The Equal Justice Initiative asked the Justice Department to investigate alleged incidents occurring between 2009 and 2011 at the Tutwiler Prison for Women in Wetumpka, Alabama. The federal agency confirmed that it received the complaint though declined further comment.
    "In interviews with more than 50 women incarcerated at Tutwiler, EJI uncovered evidence of frequent and severe officer-on-inmate sexual violence," the Montgomery-based group said in a statement.
    "This troubling cycle of abuse and lack of accountability has established a widespread pattern and practice of custodial sexual misconduct," said Bryan Stevenson, the group's executive director.
    Stevenson also blamed the Alabama Department of Corrections for under-reporting the alleged attacks, which the group says include rapes, and for responding inadequately.
    The group claims that more than "20 Tutwiler employees have been transferred or terminated in the past five years for having illegal sexual contact with prisoners."
    "It's an ongoing thing, a daily thing," said Stefanie Hibbett, 31, a former Tutwiler inmate. "You see women raped and beaten, and nothing is ever done."
    Hibbett said she was the victim of sexual assault in November 2010. She said she told the prison's warden about the assault, but no charges were ever filed against the prison guard she says attacked her. An Alabama judge dismissed a civil suit she filed in the case in August.
    Several imprisoned women also allegedly became pregnant after being raped by guards, giving birth while in custody, the nonprofit group reported.
    CNN cannot independently confirm that account. The Alabama attorney general's office referred questions to the Alabama Department of Corrections, which did not immediately return a call for comment.
    A 2007 Justice Department report found that Tutwiler maintained the highest rate of sexual assault among prisons for women and 11th overall of those evaluated across the United States.
     
  9. Lilly Owl

    Lilly Owl Since when is God's adversary a curse word here?

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    Women, even on death row, have physicians at their disposal. A pregnant death row inmate would not escape notice.
    If a woman is on death row, there is a particular segment of the guard population that are in charge of that particular section of the prison, as it's segregated from general population.

    Furthermore, if a woman happens to be on death row it takes years for the execution of sentence to be carried out, due to the Constitutional guarantees that insure every opportunity for appeal.
    And finally, if a woman is on death row, and is absolutely guilty and not just wrongly accused, she's there for a heinous murder or murders that she did commit. If we're going to kill her, a reprieve due to a fetus in her womb, isn't a game changer.

    After all, that woman could have murdered a pregnant woman in order to arrive at death row.
    The death penalty isn't perfect. It should be abolished because of those people for whom DNA testing has been a life saver even from other prison sentences they were serving until testing proved they were innocent. This includes some inmates who were on death row.
    Though it is interesting that long ago one prison's warden, in concert with I think it was the Innocence Project, proposed to all inmates the option for free DNA testing to exonerate the innocent among them. Not one inmate took up the offer.

    Some say the death penalty is State sanctioned murder. However, for those inmates who are guilty of the most horrific crimes, if it's available it might as well be employed.
    After all, what's humane about asking the victims family to have their tax dollars help the savage murderer of their daughter or son to live a life sentence and grow to be a senior citizen, when those victims child wasn't allowed that chance due to that inmate?
    The only thing wrong with the death penalty is that it's not broadcast pay per view.
    It's not public like the old days when hangings were carried out in the town square, for instance.
    People should see what savagery costs. And if it appears to be more savagery, at least it sends the message that we'll not tolerate evil survived in a cell for 50 or more years on a life sentence. Free stamps, free cable, free medical that likes of which good free people can't afford, and free attorneys that we pay for, but that we most likely would find hard to budget if the time came ourselves.

    Thou Shalt Not Murder
    Those on death row broke the law first
    A fetus in their belly, that being sexism when it's an excuse not to execute sentence, doesn't change a thing.
     
  10. cam44

    cam44 Active Member

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    Troll.
     
  11. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

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  12. Bethesda

    Bethesda Newbie

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    Maybe I missing something but are not death row should be abolished and it should be on TV mutually exclusive concepts? I don't personally see Jesus as someone who would support the death penalty and generally I don't (though I might make an exception for Irish terrorists but only in a heat of the action application of rule 5.56); I also find the rather atavistic comments of some on this forum - not this particular thread(re how after the return of Jesus as Lord there will be world wide extermination and capital punishment on a grand scale) slightly chilling - not in that its up to God to decide how He applies justice, but that human beings should rather revel in mass extermination of all those heathens)
     
  13. Illuminaughty

    Illuminaughty Drift and Doubt

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    We should just abolish the death penalty all together. It's an embarrassing anachronism in a 21st century first world nation. This isn't the dark ages anymore. Heck, even in medieval Russia they were civilized enough to abolish it for a while.
     
  14. SPB1987

    SPB1987 Newbie

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    Death penalty is unnecessary? What do you suppose we do with serial killers and mass shooters(the ones who survive obviously)?
     
  15. GenetoJean

    GenetoJean Veteran

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    Keep them in jail for the rest of their lives for less cost than all the legal bills add up before we execute them.
     
  16. Paradoxum

    Paradoxum Liberty, Equality, Solidarity!

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    Lock them up, like we do in most civilised countries.
     
  17. EdwinWillers

    EdwinWillers Well-Known Member

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    ...and none of them were pregnant (assuming post-execution autopsies are "100%" accurate).
     
  18. Usethepen

    Usethepen Newbie

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    I see, then it will not be missed if it is abolished.

    Also the death penalty legitimizes hate.
    Forgive my chivalry, but I could never bring myself to hate a woman.
     
  19. SolomonVII

    SolomonVII Well-Known Member

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    I only see that it is an insignificant issue in the first place.

    Yes.
    It expresses the hatred of incorrigible evil.

    Whatever.
    If hatred of abortion is the intent, then the political focus would be concerned for the millions that are defined as a woman's moral right, rather than a nonexistent problem that has contributed to no indaverant fetal deaths.
    Justice hates evil, and is blind to the issue of gender.

    If you truly love women, you must hate abortion, which demeans and destroys that which makes a woman's natue unique in the first place.
    Capital punishment is so insignificant in that regard that it is not only a non-issue, but a diversion from where attention really ought to be focused in the first place.
     
  20. All Englands Skies

    All Englands Skies Christian-Syndicalist

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    I disagree with Abortion and death penalties.
     
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