When will USA accept that they commited terrible crimes against japan in WWII?

[Markus6]

Cities were targets in major wars. Are you really serious that they are not targets? There were military bases there. It was a port city where Japanese soldiers left to go fight. There were factories there.

If your target is a city you're not aiming very well. Cities are big and have lots of things in them, some are valid targets, some are not. When we drop bombs in Afghanistan or Iraq we don't aim for a city - we aim for a target within the city. Yes there were military bases, bomb them. Yes there was a port, bomb that. Yes there were factories, bomb them. They are targets. If your target is one Al Quaeda base in Baghdad why don't we nuke the whole city? Or do you think we should?

You make no sense. The analogy doesn't work with Bin Laden. If we knew some places to destroy that would hamper his efforts, then they would be valid targets i.e. safe houses, etc.

Yes but that doesn't mean that any size bomb that gets the target is justifiable. We use smaller bombs to try and minimize civilian damage.

Regardless, the Geneva Convention covering citizens didn't come into effect until 1950 so your claim that our actions were against the Geneva Convention are erroneous.

I'm not saying it was illegal. I'm saying the Geneva convention is there for a reason - civilians, of any nationality, should be protected in war.

 

[AkiraYamato]

Well I am glad we had that choice and minimized American casualties.

Is our live no worth?
so many people burned to ash in a second. You don´t even give us the chance to bury them, to have a place where we can remeber them. They are just gone in a second. That hurt so much and is like a giant trauma in our society.
Why you can´t see that? It makes me so sad. I said things, that i didn´t mean that way.
That issue hurt me very much.

 

[jamesrwright3]

]If your target is a city you're not aiming very well. Cities are big and have lots of things in them, some are valid targets, some are not. When we drop bombs in Afghanistan or Iraq we don't aim for a city - we aim for a target within the city. Yes there were military bases, bomb them. Yes there was a port, bomb that. Yes there were factories, bomb them. They are targets. If your target is one Al Quaeda base in Baghdad why don't we nuke the whole city? Or do you think we should?

Are you seriously this dense? Are you really comparing our laser guided weapons to the weapons in WWII which were HIGHLY inaccurate?
The cities were not the targets. The targets were in cities and therefore valid targets.

Yes but that doesn't mean that any size bomb that gets the target is justifiable. We use smaller bombs to try and minimize civilian damage.

We use fewer and smaller bombs because our targets are smaller. We are trying to take out one house..In world war II we were trying to destroy ports, destroy bases, and destroy factories. Also, we have the luxury of having pinpoint accuracy in our weapons..something not available to us in WWII. We had to do drop more bombs to be assured we destroyed the targets.

I'm not saying it was illegal. I'm saying the Geneva convention is there for a reason - civilians, of any nationality, should be protected in war

And during WWII there were no such protections for citizens so we have to look at it from the perspective of that time. Our actions were justifiable and legal.

 

[300B]

Hey, just to show that there's no hard feelings, why don't you come on over and visit Pearl Harbor? You get to watch a short movie about what happened there, you just might learn something.

 

[AkiraYamato]

Hey, just to show that there's no hard feelings, why don't you come on over and visit Pearl Harbor? You get to watch a short movie about what happened there, you just might learn something.

Its clear i´m not welcome

 

[Tacere]

Its clear i´m not welcome

It's clear that your delusional and making a bunch of stuff up. America doesn't hate you. You hate America(ns).

 

[AkiraYamato]

It's clear that your delusional and making a bunch of stuff up. America doesn't hate you. You hate America(ns).

Why you think it is that way?

 

[300B]

Yes, you are. I've been there, saw lots of Japanese. We don't mind.

 

[Baggins]

I didn't, but wikipedia is my friend.

Sure Operation Downfall would have been a mess and many allies (probably mostly americans) would have been killed. Morally I would still have been happier with it.

I wouldn't. The leaders of the free world had a moral duty to minimize the casualties in their armies as far as possible. They also had a moral duty to minimize civilian casualties in the aggressor nations. I believe that the use of atomic weapons fulfilled both of these obligations. Their use lead to the end of the war with fewer allied troops and Japanese civilians dying than an invasion of Japan would have lead to by any measure.

Perhaps they'd have surrendered sooner than expected.

And perhaps they wouldn't. Considering they didn't even surrender after the dropping of the first atomic bomb it seems altogether doubtful.

At least there would have been a chance of sparing women and children (assuming they didn't take up arms or try to commit suicide).

Now you have read about the invasion of Okinawa and what happened to the civilian population you'd have to agree that that is a very slim chance.

Many possible friendly soldier deaths vs. many guaranteed 'enemy' civilian deaths only works out one way in my mind.

Then thank god you weren't the leader of the free world at that time.

If I was alive then I would like to think I'd be willing to take part in the operation as an alternative to a nuclear strike.

If I was alive then I'd like to think things would have turned out exactly the way they did.

I think in this case the use of atomic weapons was entirely justified, it lead to fewer dead than any other likely outcome.

I realise that but I just wanted it to be clear. I wouldn't like to claim British Indian deaths as effort on the part of the UK.

Neither would I, India was in the grip of an Independence movement at the time and the majority of them supported the allies because they thought it would be a good moral bargaining tool for Independence, in which they were right The Socialist Government voted in at the war granted Indian independence at the end of the war because it was the correct thing to do but the support of the Indian Army during WWII made it popular as well, but they also knew that the alternative, Invasion by the Japanese, was much worse, they had observed what Japan had done to China and were sure, despite japanese blandishments to the contrary, that hey would get much the same.

 

[Tacere]

Why you think it is that way?

I don't think it's that way, I know it's that way. You've never lived in the US have you?

 

[AkiraYamato]

We have no place to remeber all the death. We couldn´t bury them. The wind blow the ash away.

What advice can that people give us, who defend that terrible thing?

 

[AkiraYamato]

I don't think it's that way, I know it's that way. You've never lived in the US have you?

I lived there 8 weeks as exchange studend.

 

[Baggins]

But is bombing cities right? If there are 15 schools and one military installation with 10 enemy soliders would bombing that city be right? Slide the scale - how many enemy military targets and how few civilian targets would make a bombing right?

Some things are banned by convention in war. Sometimes these bans stick - poison gas in world war 2 - sometimes they don't - bombing of cities.

I think you need to investigate who pioneered bombing cities - see Guernica, and who used the bombing of civilians as a military objective - Rotterdam, Blitzkrieg. It is all very well taking the moral high ground, yet again, about these things, but when you are in a battle for the the survival of your civilisation with regimes as evil as the Nazi and Imperial Japanese regimes you would be a fool not to fight fire with fire - they sowed the wind ........

 

[300B]

Come to Pearl Harbor and stand over the Arizona. And then YOU defend your country's actions in 1941.

 

[AkiraYamato]

Come to Pearl Harbor and stand over the Arizona. And then YOU defend your country's actions in 1941.

I see it as bad failure and wished it would have been never happened.

 

[Baggins]

No, Hiroshima and Nagasaki contained valid targets.

Considering the accuracy of allied bombing during the second world war there is no practical difference

 

[Baggins]

We have no place to remeber all the death. We couldn´t bury them. The wind blow the ash away.

What advice can that people give us, who defend that terrible thing?

Don't start wars you can't win, and if you do start them don't conduct them with such brutality that no one gives a stuff about dropping atomic weapons on you to finish them.

Sound advice there

 

[AkiraYamato]

Don't start wars you can't win, and if you do start them don't conduct them with such brutality that no one gives a stuff about dropping atomic weapons on you to finish them.

Sound advice there

Thats cruel and heartless. We couldn´t exspect that.

 

[PassthePeace1]

I see it as bad failure and wished it would have been never happened.

Bad failure? Maybe your terminology is getting lost in the translation.....but from the Japanese point of view at that time, it was a success. It exceeded their expectation, of what they wanted to accomplish....one of which was to provoke American into war. Well they got what they wanted, just didn't like the final outcome of the war.

Or by bad failure, do you mean a mistake? If so, learn for your countries mistakes, instead of making excuses..... or your generation, might be doomed to commit the same mistakes of your grandfather's generation. One way to start is to face up and admitt the wrong doing of your countrymen.....and vow not to fall into the same errors of thinking.


Whether you want to admitted it or not, your countrymen of that era where committing war crimes long before Pearl Harbor, in various Asian countries. On what moral ground can they justifiy invading other countries and brutalizing innocent citizens of those countries?

If you want to make a case that the bombing of Japan, was an immoral act....then do so, but at least be honest with yourself...that your country's decisions during that era, also bear some.... if not the ulimate responsibility.....for the lose of innocent life during the bombing. And consider "You reap what you sow" a lesson learned the hardway.

Peace be with you...Pam

 

[AkiraYamato]

Bad failure? Maybe your terminology is getting lost in the translation.....but from the Japanese point of view at that time, it was a success. It exceeded their expectation, of what they wanted to accomplish....one of which was to provoke American into war. Well they got what they wanted, just didn't like the final outcome of the war.

Or by bad failure, do you mean a mistake? If so, learn for your countries mistakes, instead of making excuses..... or your generation, might be doomed to commit the same mistakes of your grandfather's generation. One way to start is to face up and admitt the wrong doing of your countrymen.....and vow not to fall into the same errors of thinking.


Whether you want to admitted it or not, your countrymen of that era where committing war crimes long before Pearl Harbor, in various Asian countries. On what moral ground can they justifiy invading other countries and brutalizing innocent citizens of those countries?

If you want to make a case that the bombing of Japan, was an immoral act....then do so, but at least be honest with yourself...that your country's decisions during that era, also bear some.... if not the ulimate responsibility.....for the lose of innocent life during the bombing. And consider "You reap what you sow" a lesson learned the hardway.

Peace be with you...Pam

it was bad failure to start that war. A very bad failure. We can´t turn time back. I wish i could but i can´t.
But even when we started the war, you shouldn´t take away our humanity.
I told it before, so many were burned into ash in a seconds. They are just away.

My family lost many too. Not in Hiroshima, but in the war on sea and in Okinawa. There are pictures. My grandmother lost 6 brothers and her father. It is hard to live with that.

Some very bad things happened on both sides and i don´t know how to explain that well, but listen:
Yes we started it and maybe we are responsible for that events our own, but when you lose somebody, you can´t care about responsibility. You are very very sad then and need help to go through that.