When were the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven used by Peter ?

[readywriter]

Subject heading:- When were the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven used by Peter ?

The Divided Kingdom is still divided.
This is the Found Sheep of the House of Israel:

Matthew 13:10-11 And the Disciples came, and said unto Him, Why speakest Thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but to them it is not given. (Matthew 28:18-30, John 10:1-5, John 12:44-50, John 14:15-17, Revelation 3:8-10, Revelation 7:4-8, Revelation 14:1, etc.)

But this is the House of Judah and her guides:

John 7:1, Matthew 23:34-38, Matthew 15:12-14, John 9:39-41, etc.
They'll be blind until Matthew 13:14-15 meets Isaiah 6:11-13
... which hasn't happened yet.

Hello @Other Sheep,

Reading the Scriptures this morning I read something which brought your entries to mind, and I would like to respond to your statement, that 'The divided kingdom is still divided'.

The Lord Jesus said that He was - 'not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel' (Matthew 15:24). It would seem that you believe that this relates to those who comprised the northern kingdom, and not to those within Judah.

In 1 Kings 12:16-17 we can see that there were 'sons of Israel', remaining in the cities of Judah following the division,

'And all Israel saw that the king did not listen to them,
and the people answered the king, saying,
What part do we have in David?
Yea, there is no inheritance in the son of Jesse.
To your tents, O Israel!
Now see to your house, O David!
And Israel went to its tents.
As for the sons of Israel,
those living in the cities of Judah,
Rehoboam reigned over them.'
​

* Yes, there was a nucleus of true worshippers, constantly increasing. as can be seen by the following references:-
1 Chronicles 9:3, 2 Chronicles 10:17; 2 Chronicles 11:3; 2 Chronicles 11:16,17;
2 Chronicles 15:9; 2 Chronicles 16:1; 2 Chronicles 19:8; 2 Chronicles 23:2;
2 Chronicles 30:1; 2 Chronicles 30:5: 2 Chronicles 30:10-11; 2 Chronicles 31:6.
Ezra 1:5; Ezra 2:2; 59: Ezra 2:70; Ezra 7:13; Ezra 9:1; Ezra 10:5

* Those returning, of Judah's captivity, are called, 'of Israel', and, 'all Israel' :-
Ezra 2:2; Ezra 2:70; Ezra 3:1; Ezra 6:21; Ezra 7:13; Ezra 9:1; Ezra 10:5.
Judah was therefore always representative of 'all Israel'.

* So The Acts of the Apostles 4:27, 'the People of Israel', and The Acts of the Apostles 2:14; The Acts of the Apostles 2:22; The Acts of the Apostles 2:36, 'of Judah'. The two words are used interchangeably, except where otherwise stated.

* The term, 'The house of Israel' (Exodus 16:31) also, (1 Chronicles 22:17; 1 Chronicles 23:3;
2 Chronicles 12:6) is used of Judah before the division. See also the fact that Israel decreased in size, whereas Judah increased (1 Chronicles 13:3): caused by the constant emigration of Israelites from the 10 tribes to Judah.

* There are 14 occurrences of the term, 'The house of Israel', before the division of the nation into 2 Kingdoms.( Exodus 16:31; Exodus 19:3; Exodus 40:38; Leviticus 10:6; Leviticus 17:3; Numbers 20:29; Joshua 21:45; 1 Samuel 7:2-3; 2 Samuel 1:12; 2 Samuel 6:5; 2 Samuel 6:15; 2 Samuel 12:8; 2 Samuel 16:3; Ruth 4:11.

* 'The house of Judah' occurs 4 times. The first occurrence is in 2 Samuel 2:4.

* I am grateful to the notes in my Companion Bible, and therefore the industry of another for the content of this entry.

Hoping it will be useful to you, or to those who read this thread.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Dan Perez]

Hello @Other Sheep,

Reading the Scriptures this morning I read something which brought your entries to mind, and I would like to respond to your statement, that 'The divided kingdom is still divided'.

The Lord Jesus said that He was - 'not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel' (Matthew 15:24). It would seem that you believe that this relates to those who comprised the northern kingdom, and not to those within Judah.

In 1 Kings 12:16-17 we can see that there were 'sons of Israel', remaining in the cities of Judah following the division,

'And all Israel saw that the king did not listen to them,
and the people answered the king, saying,
What part do we have in David?
Yea, there is no inheritance in the son of Jesse.
To your tents, O Israel!
Now see to your house, O David!
And Israel went to its tents.
As for the sons of Israel,
those living in the cities of Judah,
Rehoboam reigned over them.'
​

* Yes, there was a nucleus of true worshippers, constantly increasing. as can be seen by the following references:-
1 Chronicles 9:3, 2 Chronicles 10:17; 2 Chronicles 11:3; 2 Chronicles 11:16,17;
2 Chronicles 15:9; 2 Chronicles 16:1; 2 Chronicles 19:8; 2 Chronicles 23:2;
2 Chronicles 30:1; 2 Chronicles 30:5: 2 Chronicles 30:10-11; 2 Chronicles 31:6.
Ezra 1:5; Ezra 2:2; 59: Ezra 2:70; Ezra 7:13; Ezra 9:1; Ezra 10:5

* Those returning, of Judah's captivity, are called, 'of Israel', and, 'all Israel' :-
Ezra 2:2; Ezra 2:70; Ezra 3:1; Ezra 6:21; Ezra 7:13; Ezra 9:1; Ezra 10:5.
Judah was therefore always representative of 'all Israel'.

* So The Acts of the Apostles 4:27, 'the People of Israel', and The Acts of the Apostles 2:14; The Acts of the Apostles 2:22; The Acts of the Apostles 2:36, 'of Judah'. The two words are used interchangeably, except where otherwise stated.

* The term, 'The house of Israel' (Exodus 16:31) also, (1 Chronicles 22:17; 1 Chronicles 23:3;
2 Chronicles 12:6) is used of Judah before the division. See also the fact that Israel decreased in size, whereas Judah increased (1 Chronicles 13:3): caused by the constant emigration of Israelites from the 10 tribes to Judah.

* There are 14 occurrences of the term, 'The house of Israel', before the division of the nation into 2 Kingdoms.( Exodus 16:31; Exodus 19:3; Exodus 40:38; Leviticus 10:6; Leviticus 17:3; Numbers 20:29; Joshua 21:45; 1 Samuel 7:2-3; 2 Samuel 1:12; 2 Samuel 6:5; 2 Samuel 6:15; 2 Samuel 12:8; 2 Samuel 16:3; Ruth 4:11.

* 'The house of Judah' occurs 4 times. The first occurrence is in 2 Samuel 2:4.

* I am grateful to the notes in my Companion Bible, and therefore the industry of another for the content of this entry.

Hoping it will be useful to you, or to those who read this thread.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

All should read Eze 37:15--22 and Christ will bring the 2 sticks and make them one stick and never will there be 2 nations , but ONE NATION and it will happen when Christ comes back to save them .

dan p

 

[readywriter]

Subject heading:- When were the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven used by Peter ?

'The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
.. Moreover, thou son of man,
.... take thee one stick, and write upon it,
...... For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions:
........ then take another stick, and write upon it,
.......... For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
............ And join them one to another into one stick;
.............. and they shall become one in thine hand.
And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee,
.. saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
.... Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD;
...... Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim,
........ and the tribes of Israel his fellows,
.......... and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah,
............ and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
.............. And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD;
.. Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone,
.... and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
...... And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel;
........ and one king shall be king to them all:
.......... and they shall be no more two nations,
............ neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:'
(Ezekiel 37:15-22)

Praise God!

 

[Ligurian]

Reading the Scriptures this morning I read something which brought your entries to mind, and I would like to respond to your statement, that 'The divided kingdom is still divided'.

The Lord Jesus said that He was - 'not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel' (Matthew 15:24). It would seem that you believe that this relates to those who comprised the northern kingdom, and not to those within Judah.

In 1 Kings 12:16-17 we can see that there were 'sons of Israel', remaining in the cities of Judah following the division,

'And all Israel saw that the king did not listen to them,
and the people answered the king, saying,
What part do we have in David?
Yea, there is no inheritance in the son of Jesse.
To your tents, O Israel!
Now see to your house, O David!
And Israel went to its tents.
As for the sons of Israel,
those living in the cities of Judah,
Rehoboam reigned over them.'​

1 Kings:12:16-24
And all Israel saw that the king did not hearken to them:
and the people answered the king, saying,
What portion have we in David?
neither have we any inheritance in the son of Jessae.
Depart, O Israel, to thy tents:
now feed thine own house, David.
[17] So Israel departed to his tents.
[18] And the king sent Adoniram who was over the tribute,
and they stoned him with stones and he died;
and king Roboam made haste to rise to flee to Jerusalem.
[19] So Israel rebelled against the house of David until this day.[20] And it came to pass when all Israel heard that Jeroboam had returned out of Egypt, that they sent and called him to the assembly, and they made him king over Israel: and none followed the house of David except the tribe of Juda and Benjamin only.[21] And Roboam went into Jerusalem, and he assembled the congregation of Juda, and the tribe of Benjamin, a hundred and twenty thousand young men, warriors, to fight against the house of Israel, to recover the kingdom to Roboam the son of Solomon.[22] And the word of the Lord came to Samaia the man of God, saying,[23] Speak to Roboam the son of Solomon, king of Juda, and to all the house of Juda and Benjamin, and to the remnant of the people, saying,[24]Thus saith the Lord, Ye shall not go up, neither shall ye fight with your brethren the sons of Israel: return each man to his own home; for this thing is from me; and they hearkened to the word of the Lord, and they ceased from going up, according to the word of the Lord.LXX

Like father like son. Because Solomon tried to kill Jeroboam, too.

[Chronicles and Ezra are both post-Babylonian-captivity...
did they all return at the same time?...
Acts-Luke wasn't even there... ]

* The term, 'The house of Israel' (Exodus 16:31) also, (1 Chronicles 22:17; 1 Chronicles 23:3;
2 Chronicles 12:6) is used of Judah before the division. See also the fact that Israel decreased in size, whereas Judah increased (1 Chronicles 13:3): caused by the constant emigration of Israelites from the 10 tribes to Judah.

* There are 14 occurrences of the term, 'The house of Israel', before the division of the nation into 2 Kingdoms.( Exodus 16:31; Exodus 19:3; Exodus 40:38; Leviticus 10:6; Leviticus 17:3; Numbers 20:29; Joshua 21:45; 1 Samuel 7:2-3; 2 Samuel 1:12; 2 Samuel 6:5; 2 Samuel 6:15; 2 Samuel 12:8; 2 Samuel 16:3; Ruth 4:11.

* 'The house of Judah' occurs 4 times. The first occurrence is in 2 Samuel 2:4.

* I am grateful to the notes in my Companion Bible, and therefore the industry of another for the content of this entry.

Hoping it will be useful to you, or to those who read this thread.

Which Massoretic Bible Version?

Obviously, the House of Israel was once the name of the whole 12 tribes.
But after the division ...created by God... of the kingdom of Solomon,
There were 10 tribes in the north:
the House of Israel = the Kingdom of Israel, in the iron age.
There were 3 tribes in the south:
the House of Judah = the Kingdom of Judah, in the iron age.

This is the division by which they were separately carried captive:
the House of Israel to Assyria.
the House of Judah to Babylon.

This is a History which most people already know:
FIRST, Assyria led the House of Israel away captive.
SECOND, Babylon led the House of Judah away captive.

Jeremiah is looking back on the FIRST captivity,
AND forward to the SECOND captivity, right here:

Jeremiah 3:6-12 And the Lord said to me in the days of Josias the king, Hast thou seen what things the house of Israel has done to Me? they have gone on every high mountain and under every shady tree, and have committed fornication there.[7] And I said after she had committed all these acts of fornication, Turn again to Me. Yet she returned not.
And faithless Juda saw her faithlessness.[8] And I saw that (for all the sins of which she was convicted, wherein the House of Israel committed adultery and I put her away, and gave into her hands a bill of divorcement,) yet faithless Juda feared not, but went and herself also committed fornication.[9] And her fornication was nothing accounted of, and she committed adultery with wood and stone.[10] And for all these things faithless Juda turned not to Me with all her heart, but falsely.
[11] And the Lord said to me, Israel has justified himself more than faithless Juda.[12] Go and read these words toward the north, and thou shalt say, Return to Me, O house of Israel, saith the Lord; and I will not set My face against you: for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not be angry with you for ever.LXX

Hosea is doing the very same thing that Jeremiah is doing, here:

Hosea 1:6-10 And she conceived again, and bore a daughter. And he said to him, Call her name, Unpitied: for I will no more have mercy on the house of Israel, but will surely set Myself in array against them.
[7] But I will have mercy on the house of Juda, and will save them by the Lord their God, and will not save them with bow, nor with sword, nor by war, nor by horses, nor by horsemen.
[8] And she weaned Unpitied; and she conceived again, and bore a son.[9] And he said, Call his name, Not My people: for ye are not My people, and I am not your God.[10] Yet the number of the children of Israel was as the sand of the sea, which shall not be measured nor numbered: and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said to them, Ye are not My people, even they shall be called the sons of the living God.
Hosea 2:1-23 Say to your brother, My people, and to your sister, Pitied.[2] Plead with your mother, plead: for she is not My wife and I am not her husband: and I will remove her fornication out of My presence, and her adultery from between her breasts: ...[14] Therefore, behold, I will cause her to err, and will make her as desolate, and will speak comfortably to her.[15] And I will giver her possessions from thence, and the valley of Achor to open her understanding: and she shall be afflicted there according to the days of her infancy, and according to the days of her coming up out of the land of Egypt.[16] And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord, that she shall call Me, My husband, and shall no longer call me Baalim. ...[19] And I will betroth thee to Myself for ever; yea, I will betroth thee to Myself in righteousness and in judgment, and in mercy and in tender compassions.[20] And I will betroth thee to Myself in faithfulness, and thou shalt know the Lord. ...[23] And I will sow her to Me on the Earth and will love her that was not loved, and will say to that which was not My people, Thou art My people: and they shall say, Thou art the Lord My God.LXX
Jeremiah 31:18-20 I have heard the sound of Ephraim lamenting, and saying, Thou hast chastened me, and I was chastened. I, as a calf was not willingly taught: turn Thou me and I shall turn, for Thou art the Lord My God.[19] For after my captivity I repented, and after I knew I groaned for the day of shame, and shewed Thee that I bore reproach from my youth.[20] Ephraim is a beloved son, a pleasing child to Me: for because My words are in him, I will surely remember him: therefore I made haste to help him; I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the Lord.LXX

It ain't rocket science, kids.

 

[readywriter]

1 Kings:12:16-24
And all Israel saw that the king did not hearken to them:
and the people answered the king, saying,
What portion have we in David?
neither have we any inheritance in the son of Jessae.
Depart, O Israel, to thy tents:
now feed thine own house, David.
[17] So Israel departed to his tents.
[18] And the king sent Adoniram who was over the tribute,
and they stoned him with stones and he died;
and king Roboam made haste to rise to flee to Jerusalem.
[19] So Israel rebelled against the house of David until this day.[20] And it came to pass when all Israel heard that Jeroboam had returned out of Egypt, that they sent and called him to the assembly, and they made him king over Israel: and none followed the house of David except the tribe of Juda and Benjamin only.[21] And Roboam went into Jerusalem, and he assembled the congregation of Juda, and the tribe of Benjamin, a hundred and twenty thousand young men, warriors, to fight against the house of Israel, to recover the kingdom to Roboam the son of Solomon.[22] And the word of the Lord came to Samaia the man of God, saying,[23] Speak to Roboam the son of Solomon, king of Juda, and to all the house of Juda and Benjamin, and to the remnant of the people, saying,[24]Thus saith the Lord, Ye shall not go up, neither shall ye fight with your brethren the sons of Israel: return each man to his own home; for this thing is from me; and they hearkened to the word of the Lord, and they ceased from going up, according to the word of the Lord.LXX

Like father like son. Because Solomon tried to kill Jeroboam, too.

[Chronicles and Ezra are both post-Babylonian-captivity...
did they all return at the same time?...
Acts-Luke wasn't even there... ]


Which Massoretic Bible Version?

Obviously, the House of Israel was once the name of the whole 12 tribes.
But after the division ...created by God... of the kingdom of Solomon,
There were 10 tribes in the north:
the House of Israel = the Kingdom of Israel, in the iron age.
There were 3 tribes in the south:
the House of Judah = the Kingdom of Judah, in the iron age.

This is the division by which they were separately carried captive:
the House of Israel to Assyria.
the House of Judah to Babylon.

This is a History which most people already know:
FIRST, Assyria led the House of Israel away captive.
SECOND, Babylon led the House of Judah away captive.

Jeremiah is looking back on the FIRST captivity,
AND forward to the SECOND captivity, right here:

Jeremiah 3:6-12 And the Lord said to me in the days of Josias the king, Hast thou seen what things the house of Israel has done to Me? they have gone on every high mountain and under every shady tree, and have committed fornication there.[7] And I said after she had committed all these acts of fornication, Turn again to Me. Yet she returned not.
And faithless Juda saw her faithlessness.[8] And I saw that (for all the sins of which she was convicted, wherein the House of Israel committed adultery and I put her away, and gave into her hands a bill of divorcement,) yet faithless Juda feared not, but went and herself also committed fornication.[9] And her fornication was nothing accounted of, and she committed adultery with wood and stone.[10] And for all these things faithless Juda turned not to Me with all her heart, but falsely.
[11] And the Lord said to me, Israel has justified himself more than faithless Juda.[12] Go and read these words toward the north, and thou shalt say, Return to Me, O house of Israel, saith the Lord; and I will not set My face against you: for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not be angry with you for ever.LXX

Hosea is doing the very same thing that Jeremiah is doing, here:

Hosea 1:6-10 And she conceived again, and bore a daughter. And he said to him, Call her name, Unpitied: for I will no more have mercy on the house of Israel, but will surely set Myself in array against them.
[7] But I will have mercy on the house of Juda, and will save them by the Lord their God, and will not save them with bow, nor with sword, nor by war, nor by horses, nor by horsemen.
[8] And she weaned Unpitied; and she conceived again, and bore a son.[9] And he said, Call his name, Not My people: for ye are not My people, and I am not your God.[10] Yet the number of the children of Israel was as the sand of the sea, which shall not be measured nor numbered: and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said to them, Ye are not My people, even they shall be called the sons of the living God.
Hosea 2:1-23 Say to your brother, My people, and to your sister, Pitied.[2] Plead with your mother, plead: for she is not My wife and I am not her husband: and I will remove her fornication out of My presence, and her adultery from between her breasts: ...[14] Therefore, behold, I will cause her to err, and will make her as desolate, and will speak comfortably to her.[15] And I will giver her possessions from thence, and the valley of Achor to open her understanding: and she shall be afflicted there according to the days of her infancy, and according to the days of her coming up out of the land of Egypt.[16] And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord, that she shall call Me, My husband, and shall no longer call me Baalim. ...[19] And I will betroth thee to Myself for ever; yea, I will betroth thee to Myself in righteousness and in judgment, and in mercy and in tender compassions.[20] And I will betroth thee to Myself in faithfulness, and thou shalt know the Lord. ...[23] And I will sow her to Me on the Earth and will love her that was not loved, and will say to that which was not My people, Thou art My people: and they shall say, Thou art the Lord My God.LXX
Jeremiah 31:18-20 I have heard the sound of Ephraim lamenting, and saying, Thou hast chastened me, and I was chastened. I, as a calf was not willingly taught: turn Thou me and I shall turn, for Thou art the Lord My God.[19] For after my captivity I repented, and after I knew I groaned for the day of shame, and shewed Thee that I bore reproach from my youth.[20] Ephraim is a beloved son, a pleasing child to Me: for because My words are in him, I will surely remember him: therefore I made haste to help him; I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the Lord.LXX

It ain't rocket science, kids.

'But He answered and said,
I am not sent but unto
the lost sheep of the house of Israel.'
(Mat 15:24)

Hello @Other Sheep,

Thank you for responding.
No, it is not rocket science, as you say: but the fact that a division existed is not in dispute; however I believe you are wrong to say that the words, 'the lost sheep of the house of Israel,' refers to the tribes of the North only; and not to the whole of Israel; for the terms 'the house of Israel' and 'the house of Judah' are used interchangeably throughout the Scriptures, as illustrated with many references in reply#101.

For ye were as sheep going astray;
but are now returned unto the Shepherd
and Bishop of your souls.'
(1Pe 2:25)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Dan Perez]

'But He answered and said,
I am not sent but unto
the lost sheep of the house of Israel.'
(Mat 15:24)

Hello @Other Sheep,

Thank you for responding.
No, it is not rocket science, as you say: but the fact that a division existed is not in dispute; however I believe you are wrong to say that the words, 'the lost sheep of the house of Israel,' refers to the tribes of the North only; and not to the whole of Israel; for the terms 'the house of Israel' and 'the house of Judah' are used interchangeably throughout the Scriptures, as illustrated with many references in reply#101.

For ye were as sheep going astray;
but are now returned unto the Shepherd
and Bishop of your souls.'
(1Pe 2:25)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

This is what Matt 10:6 really means .

#1 The Greek word THE / HO is pointing to Only to THE LOST SHEEP .

#2 The Greek word LOST / APOLLYMI is in the Greek PERFECT TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE and is in the ACCUSACTIVE CASE .

The Perfect tense means when they became LOST and they will be lost UNTIL the stick of Israel and the one stick of Judah become ONE STICK .

#3 The Greek word SHEEP / PROBATON is in the ACCUSCATIVE CASE and is LIMITED to only the SHEEP of Israel .

#4 And Only LIMITED to the HOUSE / OIKOIS which is in the GENITIVE CASE which means limited to the HOUSE of Israel .

dan p

 

[readywriter]

This is what Matt 10:6 really means .

#1 The Greek word THE / HO is pointing to Only to THE LOST SHEEP .

#2 The Greek word LOST / APOLLYMI is in the Greek PERFECT TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE and is in the ACCUSACTIVE CASE .

The Perfect tense means when they became LOST and they will be lost UNTIL the stick of Israel and the one stick of Judah become ONE STICK .

#3 The Greek word SHEEP / PROBATON is in the ACCUSCATIVE CASE and is LIMITED to only the SHEEP of Israel .

#4 And Only LIMITED to the HOUSE / OIKOIS which is in the GENITIVE CASE which means limited to the HOUSE of Israel .

dan p

Hello Dan,

Do you therefore believe that the words, 'the lost sheep of the house of Israel', refers to those who comprise the northern kingdom and not the whole of the nation of Israel?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Dan Perez]

Hello Dan,

Do you therefore believe that the words, 'the lost sheep of the house of Israel', refers to those who comprise the northern kingdom and not the whole of the nation of Israel?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Yes I do and here is the reason WHY !!

#1 In Jer 3:6 n Christ calls Israel BACKSLIDING and played the HARLOT .

#2 And in verse 7 , Christ says to Israel , turn back to me , but returned NOT .

and her TREACHEROUS sister Judah saw it .

#3 And when Israel did not return , Christ gave Israel a BILL of DEVORCE , but Judah went and played the HARLOT ALSO .
#4 In verse 10 , Judah hath not turn unto me with her whole heart , but FEIGNEDLY , saith the Lord .

#5 But the Lord said unto me , The BACKSLIDING Israel hath justified herself more that TREACHEROUS Judah and believe this why Christ is going after Israel , because she tried to JUSTIFIED her actions and that Judah FEIGNED to come back to God .

dan p

 

[readywriter]

Yes I do and here is the reason WHY !!

#1 In Jer 3:6 n Christ calls Israel BACKSLIDING and played the HARLOT .

#2 And in verse 7 , Christ says to Israel , turn back to me , but returned NOT .

and her TREACHEROUS sister Judah saw it .

#3 And when Israel did not return , Christ gave Israel a BILL of DEVORCE , but Judah went and played the HARLOT ALSO .
#4 In verse 10 , Judah hath not turn unto me with her whole heart , but FEIGNEDLY , saith the Lord .

#5 But the Lord said unto me , The BACKSLIDING Israel hath justified herself more that TREACHEROUS Judah and believe this why Christ is going after Israel , because she tried to JUSTIFIED her actions and that Judah FEIGNED to come back to God .

dan p

Hello Dan,
I do not dismiss the verses you have quoted, from Jeremiah (above), but I do not think they can be used as proof texts for your claim.

The words, 'The house of Israel' is a Hebraism, meaning, 'the family of Israel'. Judah was always representative of, 'all Israel'. Therefore in Acts 4:27, Acts 2:14 and Acts 2:22&36, the terms, 'People of Israel', and, 'of Judah' are used interchangeably, unless otherwise stated. In fact the term, 'the house of Israel', was used of 'all Israel' prior to the division of the nation fourteen times. 'Let ALL the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, Whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.' (Acts 2:36)

After the division of the nation also, there was a constant migration of the ten tribes back into the land of Judah, desiring to worship at Jerusalem (1 Kings 12:17). So Judah was comprised of more than the offspring of the two tribes originally inhabiting it following the division, but were infiltrated by members of the ten tribes of Israel, returning and settling back among their brethren.

The verses you quote have a context, and a place in the history of Israel, and should be considered within the confines of that 'context', and in the light of what happened subsequently.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

*See notes in The Companion Bible in the margin of Matthew 10:6, and Matthew 15:24, 1 Kings 12:17 & Exodus 16:31.

 

[Dan Perez]

Hello Dan,
I do not dismiss the verses you have quoted, from Jeremiah 6:1-5, but I do not think they can be used as proof texts for your claim.

The words, 'The house of Israel' is a Hebraism, meaning, 'the family of Israel'. Judah was always representative of, 'all Israel'. Therefore in Acts 4:27, Acts 2:14 and Acts 2:22&36, the terms, 'People of Israel', and, 'of Judah' are used interchangeably, unless otherwise stated. In fact the term, 'the house of Israel', was used of 'all Israel' prior to the division of the nation fourteen times. 'Let ALL the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, Whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.' (Acts 2:36)

After the division of the nation also, there was a constant migration of the ten tribes back into the land of Judah, desiring to worship at Jerusalem (1 Kings 12:17). So Judah was comprised of more than the offspring of the two tribes originally inhabiting it following the division, but were infiltrated by members of the ten tribes of Israel, returning and settling back among their brethren.

The verses you quote have a context, and a place in the history of Israel, and should be considered within the confines of that 'context', and in the light of what happened subsequently.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

*See notes in The Companion Bible in the margin of Matthew 10:6, and Matthew 15:24, 1 Kings 12:17 & Exodus 16:31.

So what do you say Jer 6:1-5 then MEANS ??

dan p

 

[readywriter]

So what do you say Jer 6:1-5 then MEANS ??

dan p

Hello @Dan Perez,

Forgive me, I wrongly entered Jeremiah 6:1-5. It should have been the reference from Jeremiah that you quoted in your post: which was Jeremiah 3:6-7.

'The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king,
Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done?
she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree,
and there hath played the harlot.
And I said after she had done all these things,
Turn thou unto me. But she returned not.
And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.'
(Jer. 3:6-7)

* These verses referring to Israel and Judah separately, does not negate the fact that the name 'Israel' is used before and since the dividing of the nation to refer to the nation as a whole.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Dan Perez]

Hello @Dan Perez,

Forgive me, I wrongly entered Jeremiah 6:1-5. It should have been the reference from Jeremiah that you quoted in your post: which was Jeremiah 3:6-7.

'The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king,
Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done?
she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree,
and there hath played the harlot.
And I said after she had done all these things,
Turn thou unto me. But she returned not.
And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.'
(Jer. 3:6-7)

* These verses referring to Israel and Judah separately, does not negate the fact that the name 'Israel' is used before and since the dividing of the nation to refer to the nation as a whole.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Read Eze 37:16:15-20 is why they are SEPARATE TODAY and will be joined at the GREAT TRIBULATION .

dan p

 

[readywriter]

Read Eze 37:16:15-20 is why they are SEPARATE TODAY and will be joined at the GREAT TRIBULATION .

dan p

Hello Dan,

I know that the two sticks will become one in that day of God's choosing, but that does not interfere with the truth that the word, 'Israel', and 'Judah' have been used inclusively of the whole company of the children of Israel, both before the division of the nation and since.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Dan Perez]

Hello Dan,

I know that the two sticks will become one in that day of God's choosing, but that does not interfere with the truth that the word, 'Israel', and 'Judah' have been used inclusively of the whole company of the children of Israel, both before the division of the nation and since.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

We know that at this time period there ISRAEL and Judah , BUT , lets look at what Rom 11:26 says !!

The Greek word ALL ISRAEL / PAS is in the NOMINATIVE CASE and is SINGULAR , notice it is all Israel and NOT Israel and Judah !!

The Greek words SHALL BE SAVED . SOZO is in the FUTURE TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE , and in the INDICATIVE MOOD and is also SINGULAR , and means that in the FUTURE , ISRAEL and JUDAH will be saved together at the same time .

I would like to see what VERSES where they are used interchangeable , as I have missed them ?


dan p

 

[readywriter]

@Dan Perez
See reply#110

https://files.worldeventsandthebible.com/companion-bible/1-kings.pdf

See the notes in the margin of 1 Kings 12:17.

 

[Dan Perez]

I looked at 1 Kings 12:17 and says that many came to LIVE with the northern Kingdom , just as people from Alaska came to live in California .

California people born here are still Californians and those born in Alaska are still Alaskans

Just because , those from Judah moved and LIVED in the Northern Kingdom does than means can change tribes .

It is good that we can study the OT .

dan p

 

[readywriter]

We know that at this time period there ISRAEL and Judah , BUT , lets look at what Rom 11:26 says !!

The Greek word ALL ISRAEL / PAS is in the NOMINATIVE CASE and is SINGULAR , notice it is all Israel and NOT Israel and Judah !!

The Greek words SHALL BE SAVED . SOZO is in the FUTURE TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE , and in the INDICATIVE MOOD and is also SINGULAR , and means that in the FUTURE , ISRAEL and JUDAH will be saved together at the same time .

I would like to see what VERSES where they are used interchangeable , as I have missed them ?


dan p

'And so all Israel shall be saved:
as it is written,
There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer,
and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob':
(Rom 11:26)

Hello @Dan Perez,

I believe that the use of the word 'Israel'(singular) in the verse above, refers to 'all Israel' (Judah and Israel combined).

I have given a link to The Companion Bible marginal note in which references are given to show the interchangeable use of the words Israel and Judah in Scripture, before and after the division of the nation (reply#115).

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[readywriter]

I looked at 1 Kings 12:17 and says that many came to LIVE with the northern Kingdom , just as people from Alaska came to live in California .

California people born here are still Californians and those born in Alaska are still Alaskans

Just because , those from Judah moved and LIVED in the Northern Kingdom does than means can change tribes .

It is good that we can study the OT .

dan p

Hello @Dan Perez,

It merely shows that a large majority of the members of the Northern tribes moved south to live within Judah. desiring to worship at Jerusalem.

* Please see 2 Chronicles 13:3 marginal notes in The Companion Bible @ this link:-

https://files.worldeventsandthebible.com/companion-bible/2-chronicles.pdf

* Also the marginal notes for Exodus 16:31:-

https://files.worldeventsandthebible.com/companion-bible/exodus.pdf

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[readywriter]

Hello There

Replying to Dan Perez I wanted to link to The Companion Bible online, and found a copy on a site not previously visited. After using it for the purpose I wanted it for, I looked at the site itself, and just want to say that I disassociate myself with the site and it's teaching. Not because I know of anything which is suspect about it, but because I personally am unfamiliar with it's teachings.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris