When was the Church born?

[Carl Emerson]

Hi there,

I am interested in opinions on when the Body of Christ, the Church was born.

Was it... Mark 3:
13 And He went up on the mountain and summoned those whom He Himself wanted, and they came to Him. 14 And He appointed twelve, so that they would be with Him and that He could send them out to preach.


or... Luke 10:
1 Now after this the Lord appointed seventy-two others, and sent them in pairs ahead of Him to every city and place where He Himself was going to come.

or... Luke 10:
18 And He said to them, “I watched Satan fall from heaven like lightning. 19 Behold, I have given you authority to walk on snakes and scorpions, and authority over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will injure you. 20 Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are recorded in heaven.”


or ... John 20:22
And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit"

or... Acts 2:
When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly a noise like a violent rushing wind came from heaven, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And tongues that looked like fire appeared to them, distributing themselves, and a tongue rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with different tongues, as the Spirit was giving them the ability to speak out.

or... Acts 4:
27 For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 28 to do whatever Your hand and purpose predestined to occur. 29 And now, Lord, look at their threats, and grant it to Your bond-servants to speak Your word with all confidence, 30 while You extend Your hand to heal, and signs and wonders take place through the name of Your holy servant Jesus.” 31 And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God with boldness.

or... Acts 14:
23 When they had appointed elders for them in every church, having prayed with fasting, they entrusted them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

or... Something else...

The reason I ask is because many dismiss the accounts in early acts as not being prescriptive regarding normal life in the church. Yet in Revelation they were instructed to return to their first love and do what they did at first...

 

[Taodeching]

I would hazard a guess of Acts 2 at Pentecost

 

[2BeholdHisGlory]

Can we take a figure from back in Genesis in any way?

Gen 2:20... but for Adam there was not found an help meet **for him**.

God the Father has made us meet partakers

21:And the Lord God caused **a deep sleep** to fall upon Adam, and he slept;

Seems reflective of here also

John 19:33 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was **dead already**

The side, shows rib (or part)

and he took one of his ribs (or part from his side) and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

Opened side here

John 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear **pierced his side**, and forthwith came there out **blood and water**.

22: And the rib (or part) which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman,

Whereas Paul said of this picture

Ephes 5:32 This is **a great mystery**: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Yet of Christ it says...

Ephes 5:23 Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Whereas Jesus said...

John 6:44 No man can **come to me**, except the Father which hath sent me **draw him**

And likewise we see here...

and God **brought her** unto the man.

Whereas Adam said...

Gen 2:3 Adam said, This is **now** bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Adam being a figure of him who was to come shows the Lords body

Ephes 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

And again of Gen 2:3 Paul says...

Ephes 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

There, at least you have the blood and water (from his side which speaks to his death) and the Spirit afterward and the three there on earth, no?

 

[BobRyan]

Hi there,

I am interested in opinions on when the Body of Christ, the Church was born.

Was it... Mark 3:
13 And He went up on the mountain and summoned those whom He Himself wanted, and they came to Him. 14 And He appointed twelve, so that they would be with Him and that He could send them out to preach.


or... Luke 10:
1 Now after this the Lord appointed seventy-two others, and sent them in pairs ahead of Him to every city and place where He Himself was going to come.

or... Luke 10:
18 And He said to them, “I watched Satan fall from heaven like lightning. 19 Behold, I have given you authority to walk on snakes and scorpions, and authority over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will injure you. 20 Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are recorded in heaven.”


or ... John 20:22
And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit"

or... Acts 2:
When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly a noise like a violent rushing wind came from heaven, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And tongues that looked like fire appeared to them, distributing themselves, and a tongue rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with different tongues, as the Spirit was giving them the ability to speak out.

or... Acts 4:
27 For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 28 to do whatever Your hand and purpose predestined to occur. 29 And now, Lord, look at their threats, and grant it to Your bond-servants to speak Your word with all confidence, 30 while You extend Your hand to heal, and signs and wonders take place through the name of Your holy servant Jesus.” 31 And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God with boldness.

or... Acts 14:
23 When they had appointed elders for them in every church, having prayed with fasting, they entrusted them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

or... Something else...

The reason I ask is because many dismiss the accounts in early acts as not being prescriptive regarding normal life in the church. Yet in Revelation they were instructed to return to their first love and do what they did at first...

In Rev 12 it is one church in both OT and NT - just as we see in Heb 11 the OT saints are models for the NT - and in Matt 17 it is OT saints standing "with Christ" in glory - even before the cross.

But Matt 28:17-20 and Acts 1 is the start of the post-resurrection Christian age of the "persecuted church" instead of the "Nation Church" of Exodus.

 

[2BeholdHisGlory]

We have the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world in Rev 13:8 so when they say, in Rev 5:9 "for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" when was that?

 

[Ceallaigh]

I'd say the Church was born when Jesus said:

“Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it." Matthew 16:17-18

And then fully established in Acts 2.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Hi there,

I am interested in opinions on when the Body of Christ, the Church was born.

Was it... Mark 3:
13 And He went up on the mountain and summoned those whom He Himself wanted, and they came to Him. 14 And He appointed twelve, so that they would be with Him and that He could send them out to preach.


or... Luke 10:
1 Now after this the Lord appointed seventy-two others, and sent them in pairs ahead of Him to every city and place where He Himself was going to come.

or... Luke 10:
18 And He said to them, “I watched Satan fall from heaven like lightning. 19 Behold, I have given you authority to walk on snakes and scorpions, and authority over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will injure you. 20 Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are recorded in heaven.”


or ... John 20:22
And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit"

or... Acts 2:
When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly a noise like a violent rushing wind came from heaven, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And tongues that looked like fire appeared to them, distributing themselves, and a tongue rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with different tongues, as the Spirit was giving them the ability to speak out.

or... Acts 4:
27 For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 28 to do whatever Your hand and purpose predestined to occur. 29 And now, Lord, look at their threats, and grant it to Your bond-servants to speak Your word with all confidence, 30 while You extend Your hand to heal, and signs and wonders take place through the name of Your holy servant Jesus.” 31 And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God with boldness.

or... Acts 14:
23 When they had appointed elders for them in every church, having prayed with fasting, they entrusted them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

or... Something else...

The reason I ask is because many dismiss the accounts in early acts as not being prescriptive regarding normal life in the church. Yet in Revelation they were instructed to return to their first love and do what they did at first...

The word ekklesia (Church) is found 77 times in the Greek Old Testament (the Septuagint or LXX) referring to Israel. This proves that the terms “Church” and “Israel” are synonymous and interchangeable. Christ and the Apostles employed and quoted extensively from the Septuagint during the early New Testament Church. The word is found 116 times in the New Testament. It was a term that they were very familiar with. The Septuagint was written about 200 years before Christ was born. While Dispensationalist conveniently portray the ekklesia as an Old Testament mystery and a New Testament phenomenon, Christ and the disciples were not so ignorant.

The ekklesia is found throughout the Greek Old Testament – the Septuagint (LXX): in Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, 1 Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Lamentations, Joel, and Micah. That is 16 of the Old Testament books, which is nearly half of them.

 

[2BeholdHisGlory]

You can see him in the OT also

John 1:42
And he (Andrew) brought him (Simon) to Jesus.
And when Jesus beheld him, he said,
Thou art Simon the son of Jona:
thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.

Likewise Peter shows the same of them (as coming to Christ)

1Peter 2:4
To whom coming,
as unto a living stone,
disallowed indeed of men,
but chosen of God, and precious,

"Ye also" as lively stones

1Peter 2:5
Ye also, as lively stones are built up a spiritual house,
an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

"acceptable to God" by Jesus Christ"

The same rock

Mat 16:18
And I say also unto thee,
That thou art Peter (Petros) 4074,
and upon this rock ( petra ) 4073 I will build my church;
and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

1Cr 10:4
....they drank of that spiritual Rock ( petra) 4073 that followed them:
and that Rock (petra) 4073 was Christ

 

[Soyeong]

Hi there,

I am interested in opinions on when the Body of Christ, the Church was born.

Was it... Mark 3:
13 And He went up on the mountain and summoned those whom He Himself wanted, and they came to Him. 14 And He appointed twelve, so that they would be with Him and that He could send them out to preach.


or... Luke 10:
1 Now after this the Lord appointed seventy-two others, and sent them in pairs ahead of Him to every city and place where He Himself was going to come.

or... Luke 10:
18 And He said to them, “I watched Satan fall from heaven like lightning. 19 Behold, I have given you authority to walk on snakes and scorpions, and authority over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will injure you. 20 Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are recorded in heaven.”


or ... John 20:22
And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit"

or... Acts 2:
When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly a noise like a violent rushing wind came from heaven, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And tongues that looked like fire appeared to them, distributing themselves, and a tongue rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with different tongues, as the Spirit was giving them the ability to speak out.

or... Acts 4:
27 For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 28 to do whatever Your hand and purpose predestined to occur. 29 And now, Lord, look at their threats, and grant it to Your bond-servants to speak Your word with all confidence, 30 while You extend Your hand to heal, and signs and wonders take place through the name of Your holy servant Jesus.” 31 And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God with boldness.

or... Acts 14:
23 When they had appointed elders for them in every church, having prayed with fasting, they entrusted them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

or... Something else...

The reason I ask is because many dismiss the accounts in early acts as not being prescriptive regarding normal life in the church. Yet in Revelation they were instructed to return to their first love and do what they did at first...

The Greek word "ekklesia" is translated as "church" and is used in Acts 7:37 and many times in the Septuagint to refer to Israel in the wilderness, so that is when the Church was born. In Acts 15:16-17, they saw themselves as the restoration of Israel in fulfillment of prophecy, not as a brand new entity that was distinct from Israel.

 

[honey badger]

And from the rib that the LORD God had taken from the man, He made a woman and brought her to him.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Some interesting responses thanks.

Try to answer the question if you can - when was the church born?

 

[honey badger]

Some interesting responses thanks.

Try to answer the question if you can - when was the church born?

are you asking for your own opinion ...

 

[2BeholdHisGlory]

You looking for a date like a birthday?

Month/day/year?

 

[2BeholdHisGlory]

When his own disciples asked him about forgiving their brother and Jesus tells them how to go about it, by telling them to go privately to them and then with two more and then he says...

Mat 18:7 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

How would they take that advice if there is no church yet, unless for the ground work of it

 

[2BeholdHisGlory]

If before adding to the church who would be saved, Peter quotes Joel saying, And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams

Would mean they are the children of the prophets (who had the Spirit upon them)

Acts 3:25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Moses wanted the same for all the Lords people (not just the prophets)

Numbers 11:29 And Moses said unto him, Enviest thou for my sake? would God that all the LORD'S people were prophets, and that the LORD would put his spirit upon them!

So if they were adding to the Church and the promise was for those nigh and far for all who would believe, as far as adding to the church as shown by the Spirit it only follows what Peter quotes of Joel that speaks of YOUR sons, YOUR daughters and not just the prophets but the children of the prophets for a start.

That means they were being added to the church that existed already made up of believers.

 

[Carl Emerson]

When his own disciples asked him about forgiving their brother and Jesus tells them how to go about it, by telling them to go privately to them and then with two more and then he says...

Mat 18:7 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

How would they take that advice if there is no church yet, unless for the ground work of it

Yes, that was Matt 18:17 and in verse 18 key of authority were given...

Would this 'church' be referring to the collective disciples?

 

[Carl Emerson]

are you asking for your own opinion ...

I don't have one yet...

But I am not comfortable with the suggestion that we ignore the mode of fellowship seen in early Acts.

 

[Carl Emerson]

You looking for a date like a birthday?

Month/day/year?

You cant be serious...

 

[honey badger]

I don't have one yet...

But I am not comfortable with the suggestion that we ignore the mode of fellowship seen in early Acts.

the church is spoken of in the feminine ( bride/holy city ) begins in Genesis so follow her journey through to Revelation to understand where she came out of ....

 

[BrotherJJ]

Hi there,

I am interested in opinions on when the Body of Christ, the Church was born.

Was it... Mark 3:
13 And He went up on the mountain and summoned those whom He Himself wanted, and they came to Him. 14 And He appointed twelve, so that they would be with Him and that He could send them out to preach.


or... Luke 10:
1 Now after this the Lord appointed seventy-two others, and sent them in pairs ahead of Him to every city and place where He Himself was going to come.

or... Luke 10:
18 And He said to them, “I watched Satan fall from heaven like lightning. 19 Behold, I have given you authority to walk on snakes and scorpions, and authority over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will injure you. 20 Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are recorded in heaven.”


or ... John 20:22
And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit"

or... Acts 2:
When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly a noise like a violent rushing wind came from heaven, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 And tongues that looked like fire appeared to them, distributing themselves, and a tongue rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with different tongues, as the Spirit was giving them the ability to speak out.

or... Acts 4:
27 For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, 28 to do whatever Your hand and purpose predestined to occur. 29 And now, Lord, look at their threats, and grant it to Your bond-servants to speak Your word with all confidence, 30 while You extend Your hand to heal, and signs and wonders take place through the name of Your holy servant Jesus.” 31 And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God with boldness.

or... Acts 14:
23 When they had appointed elders for them in every church, having prayed with fasting, they entrusted them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

or... Something else...

The reason I ask is because many dismiss the accounts in early acts as not being prescriptive regarding normal life in the church. Yet in Revelation they were instructed to return to their first love and do what they did at first...

Acts 2:4 Is where the promise of the indwelling Holy Spirit is fulfilled.

The new covenant doesn't begin until after Christ death & resurrection. Throughout the OT to include the Mk 3:13, Lk 10:18,20, Jn 20:22 you noted.

The Holy Spirit came upon (not eternally indwelt) those it motivated. Find a few examples: Jdg 3:10, 6:34, 11:29, 14:6, 14:19, 15:14, 1 Sam 10:10, 11:6, 19:23, 2 Ch 15:1, 18:23, 2 Ch 20:14, 24:20,

John 7:
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water

39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Spirit was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified)

(MY NOTE: Jesus foretells of the giving/out pouring/seal of/with, Christ's indwelling Holy Spirit to be given to believers)

Finally: Though our understanding of the Body or Christ isn't realized until Paul's writing's. We see the evidence that connects all believers at the 1st post resurrection Pentecost.