When was Jesus born?

[ssoliman]

So i've recently started to look at scholarly articles about the historicity of Jesus and who the authors of the Bible are etc... And i came upon several sources that claim Jesus was born 4 BC now i'm still an amateur so maybe this old news or then again maybe not, can anyone help shed some light here please? Thanks

 

[ViaCrucis]

So i've recently started to look at scholarly articles about the historicity of Jesus and who the authors of the Bible are etc... And i came upon several sources that claim Jesus was born 4 BC now i'm still an amateur so maybe this old news or then again maybe not, can anyone help shed some light here please? Thanks

That's the generally accepted date. Often a range of years from about 6 BC to 2 BC are offered; 4 BC is the healthy medium between the two.

This is because Dionysius Exiguus, who is the originator of our calendar system (BC/AD) was off by several years in calculating the year of Christ's birth (what was intended with 1 AD).

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ssoliman]

Thanks for clearing that up

 

[miamited]

hi ssoliman,

Hopefully you'll come to know him as your Savior, but for now I can shed some light on what is generally believed about the date of Jesus' birth. We know that Jesus was born during the reign of Herod the Great. It is believed by some that he died in 4 BC. Therefore, Jesus must have been born in 4 BC or before. We know that an angel warned Joseph, Jesus' earthly paternal parent, to flee to Egypt to save the child from Herod's onslaught against all the young boys up to the age of 2. The only unanswered question is how long did Herod live after issuing and carrying out this murderous decree. The angel visits Joseph again in Egypt and tells him that it is safe to return because Herod is dead, but we don't know how long they were in exile in Egypt.

Because of these 'facts', it is believed that Jesus was born 2 or 3 years before Herod's death, but there aren't really any cold hard facts to support an exact year. However, let it be noted that the way we account for time and days and years is not the same today as it was when these things happened. In other words, there wasn't any year known as 4 BC when Herod died. We have done our best to count back and reconstruct dates based on historical knowledge of certain landmarks along the way.

For example, in Judaism years had two beginnings. There was the religious year which was marked by the Passover and began as God told Moses in Egypt, "This will be the first month of your year...", and began the first of Nisan in the spring. However, the actual accounting for the beginning of a new year is the month of Tishri in the fall. I only add this to explain that even the date of Herod's death, 4 BC is somewhat suspect.

One of the great historians of that day, Josephus, writes that Herod died shortly after an eclipse. Well, there was an eclipse, two in fact, in 5 BC and one in 1 BC. There was one in 4 BC but it was a partial eclipse only. Josephus doesn't give any further details regarding the eclipse. Because of this we can't be absolutey sure which eclipse that Josephus was referring to.

Here's what one site claims:

Matthew tell us that Jesus was born while Herod the Great was king of Judea.
For more in on the life of King Herod go to this link.
Here we will concentrate only on the time of his death. It has always been thought that he was king between 40 BC to 4 BC although he did not do any actual ruling until 37 BC. If the death of Herod in 4 BC is true, then Jesus could not have been born after that date. How do we know that Herod died in 4 BC? Josephus, the historian tells us quite a bit about Herod the Great including details about his death. Apparently he died of a particularly nasty medical condition a little while after an incident involving the execution of several hot headed young intellects and a high preist during a fast day.

[SIZE=-1]But Herod deprived this Matthias of the high priesthood, and burnt the other Matthias, who had raised the sedition, with his companions, alive. And that very night there was an eclipse of the moon. - Antiquities 17:6:4[/SIZE]

(Josephus is probably linking the eclipse and the execution because during an eclipse of the moon, the moon turns red, the colour of blood. ) What we need therefore is an eclipse taking place the night after a Jewish fast day. Now a lunar eclipse always happens at a full moon which is always on the 14th day of a Jewish month. The only fast on the 13th day of a Jewish month is the 'Esther Fast' which takes place during the Purim festival. This occurs during the last Jewish month of the year, known as 'Adar'.

There are 2 possible eclipses in the period 7 BC to AD 6

A total eclipse on the 23rd March 5 BC at 7:45 pm
A partial eclipse on the 13th March 4 BC at 2:41 am.

Now the Jewish New Year is always the nearest new moon to the 21st March. This is worked out by observation and therefore can never be calculated exactly but nominally I calculate them as the 10th March 5 BC and 29th March 4 BC. Even if I'm out by a few days, only the eclipse occuring on the 13th March 4 BC could have taken place in Adar.
According to Josephus Herod died before the Passover of that year (Ant. 17.9.3) (although Whiston believed that reference was the year after) This would have taken place on the 11th April 4 BC. Obviously the Magi met King Herod only after Jesus had been born. Even if we say that Herod met the wise men just before his death and that Jesus was only 18 month old that puts his birth date towards the middle of 6 BC at the very latest.

Taking all the information together we are reaching a concensus of between the end quarter of 7 BC and the end quarter of 6 BC. If we want to synthesize a date for Christ's Birth then given all the information with all the guesswork and uncertainties we would have very precarious a date of 4th October 7BC.

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The information that I gave of an eclipse in 1 BC came from another site. I also question why this piece that I have posted claims that this account alludes to a fast day. I don't see any confirmation in the account of Josephus' writing that is posted here that connects the events of the rebels execution and the eclipse that very same night with any sort of fast that may have just passed. It's possible that it is mentioned in the whole of his writings. I'm honestly not too familiar with what Josephus wrote, but do know that he was a Jewish historian in those days and that much of what we know about times and dates of those days come from his writings.

So, hopefully you can see that we really don't have any hard and fast date for births and deaths thousands of years ago. In fact, particularly accurate dating of births and deaths is really only a few hundred years old. With some, very important personages recorded before that. But no matter, in the days of Jesus life, actual dates for events is nearly impossible to determine for anything because there was no standard calander system of dates and records of such things were fairly non-existent even when there was some calander dating system.

People didn't have mortgages or car payments and meetings would just be scheduled
by saying something like, "In two days..." or "In three days we will meet." Events that happened in the past were either "a few days ago" or "In the days of such-and-such a king." People had no reason or method to date things like, "On June 14, 1912 something happened."

I hope this helps. God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[miamited]

Here's another site that asks the same question that I do regarding the conjunction of the death of Matthias, the eclipse and whether or not these events did in fact come close after a fast.

Josephus on Herod's Death and other matters

 

[miamited]

Oh, and BTW, let it also be noted that all these dates are dependent on astrological data regarding an eclipse.

Just as God said when He created the heavenly bodies that they would establish times and seasons. HMMMMMM.

 

[ssoliman]

Oh, and BTW, let it also be noted that all these dates are dependent on astrological data regarding an eclipse.

Just as God said when He created the heavenly bodies that they would establish times and seasons. HMMMMMM.

Thanks a lot for taking the time out to explain Ted, this is very helpful!
Sandra

 

[KJV1611ONLY]

So i've recently started to look at scholarly articles about the historicity of Jesus and who the authors of the Bible are etc... And i came upon several sources that claim Jesus was born 4 BC now i'm still an amateur so maybe this old news or then again maybe not, can anyone help shed some light here please? Thanks

----
The real issue is not what year but the date ... Now as we approach christ-mass very few really wish to know the truth ... Jesus was not born in Dec. - the animals were grazing [sheep would have froze] ... This 25th date is Romes view when Jesus born in Oct. ... And, why celebrate a babe when HE is LORD in heaven? ...

 

[Root of Jesse]

www.bethlehemstar.net contains some good insight, suggesting that Dec 25 was the right day and either 2 or 3 BC the year.

 

[miamited]

hi kjv1611,

You should probably google December temps in Israel. You would have to put a sheep in antartica to freeze. It's why we use the wool of their coats for jackets. Personally I try to be thankful and thoughtful of Jesus' birth throughout the year, but it is a fact that he had to be born on some day in time. Was it December, October, April or June? No one knows and the Scriptures give no hint. But trust that shepherds took care of their sheep in the fields 24/7/365. The temps aren't cold enough in Israel to freeze standing water, let alone a living sheep with a nice wool coat.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[athenken]

Not to throw a wrench in the reasoning expounded on in here so far, but what of the possibility of Jesus being born in the Spring, at the time when shepherds were tending their sheep, which as been argued generally occurrs during the spring-time of the year?

 

[miamited]

hi athenken,

I'm curious. What did the shepherds do with their sheep in the rest of the year? Put them in hibernation chambers? Sheep are animals that need to be tended every day of the year. You don't stuff them in a closet like christmas ornaments to be brought out next christmas. They live about 10-12 years and they need care pretty much their entire life. They are considered one of the dumbest farm animals to raise. They don't generally understand basic dangers and are very frail and have absolutely no defensive weapons.

As far as using the shepherding of sheep to determine the time of Christ's birth, it could be pretty much any night of the year. Perhaps a study on sheep herding and care in Israel 2,000 years ago is in order to understand the worthlessness of such a proposition.

The previous poster claimed they would freeze in Israel in the winter. Obviously they haven't a clue what the weather is like in Israel in the winter. You can't hardly freeze ice in an Israeli winter. Even in the higher elevations the temperatures rarely get below freezing. Israeli winters are probably similar to winters in northern Florida for a comparison to those living in the states. Average winter temps run between 40 lows and mid 60 highs. It's easy to check out, just google it.

I just don't understand where people get this idea that sheep herding and care is some kind of part-year job. I live in South Carolina and my dog will often stay out all night even when the temps are in the 20's. If it gets below that I make him come in, but he doesn't have nearly as much coat as a winter sheep. Sheep do just fine in the winter temps of Israel and shepherds also do fine, although they probably would build a small fire not only for heat but to keep wild animals away.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[opengate07]

We do not know the exact time of his birth, but I believe we can get pretty close. Jesus was born 6 months after the birth of his cousin John the Baptist and this was somewhere around June or July.
Daily Bible Study - The Conception Of Christ

 

[ViaCrucis]

----
The real issue is not what year but the date ... Now as we approach christ-mass very few really wish to know the truth ... Jesus was not born in Dec. - the animals were grazing [sheep would have froze] ... This 25th date is Romes view when Jesus born in Oct. ... And, why celebrate a babe when HE is LORD in heaven? ...

1) Sheep probably would have been fine.
2) There is far more evidence for a December birth than an October birth (though it's ultimately irrelevant as far as Christmas is concerned).
3) We celebrate the Infant Christ because the Incarnation lay at the heart of Christianity and remembering that He was at one point a helpless infant who was completely dependent upon His mother's care points us specifically to the reality of the Incarnation as God's full immersion and participation into our humanity.

The Incarnation is Christianity.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BRISH]

hi ssoliman,

Hopefully you'll come to know him as your Savior, but for now

Amen to that. I think we get lost in the details sometimes.

www.bethlehemstar.net contains some good insight, suggesting that Dec 25 was the right day and either 2 or 3 BC the year.

I was just looking at some videos at youtube, and I think these are related to that site mentioned. There are 7. Here is part one. Just look to the right (on youtube) and you will see the next (part 2) and so forth until you've watched all 7. I haven't watched all of it, but I'm fixing to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCLmRB-OpGE

Interesting.

 

[Pfaffenhofen]

So i've recently started to look at scholarly articles about the historicity of Jesus and who the authors of the Bible are etc... And i came upon several sources that claim Jesus was born 4 BC now i'm still an amateur so maybe this old news or then again maybe not, can anyone help shed some light here please? Thanks

I was told 7 bC but not sure.
What your question is?

 

[athenken]

hi athenken,

I'm curious. What did the shepherds do with their sheep in the rest of the year? Put them in hibernation chambers? Sheep are animals that need to be tended every day of the year. You don't stuff them in a closet like christmas ornaments to be brought out next christmas. They live about 10-12 years and they need care pretty much their entire life. They are considered one of the dumbest farm animals to raise. They don't generally understand basic dangers and are very frail and have absolutely no defensive weapons.

As far as using the shepherding of sheep to determine the time of Christ's birth, it could be pretty much any night of the year. Perhaps a study on sheep herding and care in Israel 2,000 years ago is in order to understand the worthlessness of such a proposition.

The previous poster claimed they would freeze in Israel in the winter. Obviously they haven't a clue what the weather is like in Israel in the winter. You can't hardly freeze ice in an Israeli winter. Even in the higher elevations the temperatures rarely get below freezing. Israeli winters are probably similar to winters in northern Florida for a comparison to those living in the states. Average winter temps run between 40 lows and mid 60 highs. It's easy to check out, just google it.

I just don't understand where people get this idea that sheep herding and care is some kind of part-year job. I live in South Carolina and my dog will often stay out all night even when the temps are in the 20's. If it gets below that I make him come in, but he doesn't have nearly as much coat as a winter sheep. Sheep do just fine in the winter temps of Israel and shepherds also do fine, although they probably would build a small fire not only for heat but to keep wild animals away.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

I must admit, as is evident from my comment, that I know little to nothing about shepherding. I was merely spouting something that I had heard a while ago. Obviously I was ill-informed.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Not to throw a wrench in the reasoning expounded on in here so far, but what of the possibility of Jesus being born in the Spring, at the time when shepherds were tending their sheep, which as been argued generally occurrs during the spring-time of the year?

Shepherds tended their sheep year around. Sheep always needed to be watered, grazed, and kept from danger.

 

[Pfaffenhofen]

Shepherds tended their sheep year around. Sheep always needed to be watered, grazed, and kept from danger.

I wonder how sheep came to do with Christ's real birthday.
Trying to guess by sheep?
No way...

 

[Root of Jesse]

I must admit, as is evident from my comment, that I know little to nothing about shepherding. I was merely spouting something that I had heard a while ago. Obviously I was ill-informed.

Well, now you're reformed. Sometimes we take for granted just such tidbits of info. Thank you for taking it the right way.