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Featured When the world is not destroyed

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by shilohsfoal, Aug 9, 2020.

  1. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Jacks or better to open

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    Daniel 7:11 Then I kept watching because of the arrogant words the horn was speaking. As I continued to watch, the beast was slain, and its body was destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire.
    Daniel 7:12 As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was removed, but they were granted an extension of life for a season and a time.
    Daniel 7:13 In my vision in the night I continued to watch, and I saw One like a Son of Man coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into His presence.
    Daniel 7:14 And He was given dominion, glory, and kingship, that the people of every nation and language should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and His kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

    Scripture talks about when Jesus is given authority to rule and is given a kingdom that shall last forever.
    Now according to scripture,there is one kingdom that is cast into the fire at that time. Not the entire world.
    The other kingdoms have thier authority taken away and even thier lives extended but they are not destroyed.

    Which this corresponds to the book of Revelation which shows the beast (that kingdom) cast into the lake of fire. It also does not show the rest of the world being destroyed.According to revelation, those who died for thier testimony of Jesus, who did not worship the beast or receive his mark are resurrected and they are brought back to life and reign with Christ for a thousand years.

    Revelation 20:4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

    Which Daniel goes on to speak of these same saints being given the kingdom that was once governed by the beast.

    Daniel 7:15 I, Daniel, was grieved in my spirit, and the visions in my mind alarmed me.
    Daniel 7:16 I approached one of those who were standing there, and I asked him the true meaning of all this. So he told me the interpretation of these things:
    Daniel 7:17 These four great beasts are four kings who will arise from the earth.
    Daniel 7:18 But the saints of the Most High will receive the kingdom and possess it forever--yes, forever and ever.'
    Daniel 7:19 Then I wanted to know the true meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others--extremely terrifying--devouring and crushing with iron teeth and bronze claws, then trampling underfoot whatever was left.
    Daniel 7:20 I also wanted to know about the ten horns on its head and the other horn that came up, before which three of them fell--the horn whose appearance was more imposing than the others, with eyes and with a mouth that spoke words of arrogance.
    Daniel 7:21 As I watched, this horn was waging war against the saints and prevailing against them,
    Daniel 7:22 until the Ancient of Days arrived and pronounced judgment in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for them to possess the kingdom.

    My opinion is, the forth beast resides in the promised land. An area between the Eurprates River and the Nile. It's a kingdom which was promised to Abraham's seed thousands of years ago but is being governed today by very corrupt governments which all deny Jesus is the Son of God and heir to that kingdom.

    Galatians 3:16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say, "and to seeds," meaning many, but "and to your seed," meaning One, who is Christ.

    Just keep one thing in mind.
    Daniel just stated that one kingdom is cast into the fire at that time.

    Daniel 7:11 Then I kept watching because of the arrogant words the horn was speaking. As I continued to watch, the beast was slain, and its body was destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire.

    This corresponds to revelation when the beast is cast into the lake of fire.

    Revelation 19:20 But the beast was captured along with the false prophet, who on its behalf had performed signs deceiving those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. Both the beast and the false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

    Those who died for thier testimony of Christ , who do not worship the beast or recieve its mark shall reign with Christ in the kingdom promised to him.
    And all nations shall worship him.
    Amen.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
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  2. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Revelation 19:20

    19Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies assembled to wage war against the One seated on the horse, and against His army. 20But the beast was captured along with the false prophet, who on its behalf had performed signs deceiving those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. Both the beast and the false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21And the rest were killed with the sword that proceeded from the mouth of the One seated on the horse.

    And all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.
     
  3. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Jacks or better to open

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    Revelation 20:4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
    Revelation 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection.
    Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
    Revelation 20:7 When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison,
    Revelation 20:8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth--Gog and Magog--to assemble them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the seashore.
    Revelation 20:9 And they marched across the broad expanse of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. But fire came down from heaven and consumed them.
     
  4. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    2 Peter 3:12

    Waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn!

    Revelation 21:1-27 ESV / 60 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful

    Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” ...

    Hebrews 12:29

    For our God is a consuming fire.

    Isaiah 51:6

    Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look at the earth beneath; for the heavens vanish like smoke, the earth will wear out like a garment, and they who dwell in it will die in like manner; but my salvation will be forever, and my righteousness will never be dismayed.

    2 Peter 3:10-12

    But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed. Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn!

    Zephaniah 3:8

    “Therefore wait for me,” declares the Lord, “for the day when I rise up to seize the prey. For my decision is to gather nations, to assemble kingdoms, to pour out upon them my indignation, all my burning anger; for in the fire of my jealousy all the earth shall be consumed.

    2 Peter 3:12-13

    Waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
     
  5. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Jacks or better to open

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    Revelation 20:4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

    When do you believe Christ and the resurrected saints will begin to reign in the kingdom that was once governed by the beast, before or after Gog invades the kingdom and surrounds them?
     
  6. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    When Jesus returns the 1st resurrection happens and all the saved are taken to heaven for the 1,000 years. All the rest living at that time are destroyed **(beast, false prophet, all the wicked unsaved) and lay dead upon the earth (birds gorge on their flesh)... the earth is desolate .... no one for satan to tempt ... this is how he is bound/imprisoned/chained (for the 1,000) years ... he has no one to tempt.

    After the 1,000 years then the 2nd resurrection (of the unsaved) happens and this is when satan gathers these (the unsaved) for the battle of Gog & Magog.

    They attack the city (the New Jerusalem that has descended from heaven) ... the city and all in it are protected. God then destroys satan, his minions and all the wicked unsaved forever. Then God makes a new heaven & earth and the saved inherit it. The new and old covenants completely fulfilled.

    * The 1,000 reign is with Him in heaven .... review of the records of the lost .... so all have understanding of His perfect judgement .... all will know why they were not among the elect. (only He knows the secret things)

    * 1 Corinthians 6:3

    2Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3Do you not know that we will judge angels?

    **
    ** 2nd Thessalonians 2:8

    Berean Study Bible
    And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His arrival.
     
  7. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Jacks or better to open

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    So you believe Christ never reigns over the earth but Insted reigns somewhere in outer space?
    John states he sees an angel coming down from heaven so we know John is upon earth when he sees the things he writes about in this chapter.

    Revelation 20:1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the Abyss, holding in his hand a great chain.

    John sees those who are resurrected upon earth where he is. He never says they ascend into heaven nor does he say he sees them in heaven.

    Revelation 20:4 Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

    You said you believe new Jerusalem descends from heavdn to earth before the earth and heavens are made new. You feel that John mistakenly wrote the things he saw backward or wrote them backward on purpose?

    Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
    Revelation 21:2 I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
  8. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    This is a post mil view. It cannot work, because Satan is bound under the earth. Satan does not use an army that has lain dead for 1000 years. Amil makes more sense than post mil, and for that reason, most post mil denominations accept amil instead of trying to justify post mil anymore. All of OT prophecy were looking at the last Millennium as being the new heavens and earth. It was only until after John actually lived it, not just saw a vision, that in Revelation we get there is a new reality besides what the OT prophets saw in their visions. They only saw current earth. John was taken literally in his body into the next reality. Then he was taken back to the 1st century to deliver 7 copies of Revelation to 7 1st century churches. If you do not accept this, then you have to reject Moses and Elijah can appear at different times in the same body. Eternity where GOD is, not heaven above us, has no time. There is no change of time. Time does not exist. Only Moses, Elijah (Enoch), and John have experienced eternity and can be sent by God to any place and any time, in or out of current reality. These are 3 of the 4 candlesticks and olive trees mentioned in Revelation 11:4. They are also symbolized in the 4 beast of Revelation and OT prophecies. The 24 elders were specific humans. The 4 beast were specific humans for a God ordained earthly ministry and 4 witnesses of God.
     
  9. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    no it is not post mil view ... there is a 2nd resurrection my friend (of the wicked lost) and those will indeed be gathered for the great battle.

    There are so many flaws in what you are putting forth it's not even worth addressing.

    John was in vision ...

    Revelation 4

    After the vision of these things I (John) looked, and there before me was
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
  10. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    After the vision of the 7 churches. No longer a vision. Calling this world an empty desolation for 1000 years is a post mil view. God waits for an empty earth that does nothing, keeps 1000 years in form. God waits post mil to do anything. That is post mil theology. Revelation 20 gives the time frame of all OT new heavens and new earth visions. Those prophesies happen during the next 1000 years. They are not seeing after the reality change. They are seeing a vision of this reality that amil claim is the current condition. Those who deny God a near perfect world, mistake the last 2 mil as fulfilling all OT prophecy. Is it because they deny the end of Adam's punishment? They claim to not be futurist. They literal claim nothing. All human theology accepts God is coming sometime. That is not a new claim.

    The 7th Trumpet brings an end to God’s plan of the sinful nature imposed into Adam's punishment. It is the return of control by fallen humanity and human government, to one directly controlled by God. The spiritual blindness is lifted, the deception of Satan is gone. Men are without excuse to be a sheep or goat. To be wheat or tares. At some point those who are righteous remain righteous. Those who are wicked remain wicked. Yet during the last 3.5 years under Satan's control, some will choose to be beheaded over worshiping Satan and receiving the mark. Even in total depravity, God extends mercy. But receiving the mark declares ones name was never in the Lamb's book of life. This is all in black and white in Revelation 14 - 20.
     
  11. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    What is the post millennial view?
    In Christian end-times theology (eschatology), postmillennialism, or postmillenarianism, is an interpretation of chapter 20 of the Book of Revelation which sees Christ's second coming as occurring after (Latin post-) the "Millennium", a Golden Age in which Christian ethics prosper.

    no .... He returns, the 1st resurrection happens and the 1,000 years is spent in heaven .... it's not a earthly reign at all.
    Premillennialism view
     
  12. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Except premillennialism is an earthly reign. That is the major point. It is the fulfillment of all the OT prophecies. Second Coming is not the point, if nothing happens on earth. You would not be amil, because you state a 1000 year period. This earth is not desolate for 1000 years. Now you may disagree with other post mill, because they claim things get better, while you claim nothing happens at all. There are posters who claim the rapture does not happen until the end of the 1000 years. They are post mil as well. The rapture would be your "second coming", but it is not the Second Coming until after the earth sits desolate for 1000 years.
     
  13. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    all these "isms" are confusing .... what I am saying IS ... when He returns the first resurrection happens (of the saved only ... call that a rapture if you want I suppose) the saved are taken to heaven for the 1,000 years (no one left alive on earth) .... and yes the earth is desolate for that 1,000 years .... then the 2nd resurrection happens of all the dead lost.

    There are two resurrections and they are 1,000 years apart.
     
  14. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Jacks or better to open

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    According to zech, after the Lord comes, the survivors of the nations that came against Jerusalem will go to Jerusalem every year to keep the feast of tabernacles. Now how do you suppose they are going to go to Jerusalem every year if there was none left to go?
    Your not making any sense.

    Zechariah 14:16 Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.
     
  15. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Yes human theology of so many flavors is very confusing. The Second Coming does not leave the earth desolate. Even post mil say there are people on the earth. If you claim Christ does not reign on earth, that is post mil. You accept there is 1000 years. But in heaven.


    If all are dead, your resurrection works great. You have a means of some being alive, or do humans nuke the earth and no one survives? If some can be raptured, they would be. Just curious if you think all will be dead.
     
  16. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Tabernacles pointed ahead to the time when people of all nations would flock to Jerusalem to worship the Lord (Zech. 14:16). This is being fulfilled as the Lord gathers people from every tongue, tribe and nation to worship in the new Jerusalem (the heavenly) – “But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly . . .” (Heb.12:22). At the end of the age the glory of this Jerusalem is unveiled:

    “Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Now the dwelling (tabernacle) of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away” (Revelation 21:1-4).

    Jewish tradition also speaks of two Jerusalems: “For centuries, religious Jews have concluded their Pesach Seder as well as their services on Yom Kippur with the words ‘Lashanah haba-ah biru-shalayeem – next year in Jerusalem.’ Most revealing of all is the strange and wondrous anomaly that even Jews who already live in Jerusalem repeat this hope twice yearly. The tradition speaks of two Jerusalems: Yerushalayeem shel matah, the earthly city, and Yerushalayeem shel ma-alah, its heavenly counterpart.

    Feast of tabernacles will be celebrated in the New Jerusalem (the heavenly one)
     
  17. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    When Jesus returns He is returning in full glory ... with the power of the Father and with all the angels.

    No one can see God and live.

    The saved are changed and glorified with Him ... are able to be in His presense.

    The lost on the earth can not and are consumed by His arrival ... lay dead on the earth.

    Jesus Himself described the event: “‘As lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. The Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds the sky, with power and great glory” (Matthew 24:27, 30).

    “The day of the Lord will come like a thief (no one knows when). The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire” (2 Peter 3:10).

    It’s the end of one age and the beginning of an entirely new one in which Christ’s followers are clothed with immortality. It’s the time when death, the final enemy is vanquished, (1 Corinthians 15:51-53).

    Revelation describes these two groups. One will experience the second coming of Christ as a horrifying surprise. They will pray for the rocks to fall on them and hide them from Him (Revelation 6:15—17). The second group will experience it as a wonderful deliverance—a fulfillment of all they’ve lived for. They will be singing ecstatically, “This is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us” (Isaiah 25:9).
     
  18. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Jacks or better to open

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    According to scripture the new jerusalem doesn't come down from heaven till 1000 years after the first resurrection. According to zech 14, the survivors of the nations which attack Jerusalem during the war of Armegeddon go to Jerusalem every year. Now we know from Ezekiel that Egypt shall lay desolate for forty years and after that the Egyptians shall return to Egypt.
    But according to you no one is left alive to journey to Jerusalem every year.
    And zech did say every year.

    Now do you agree there will be people left alive on the earth to travel to Jerusalem every year after Christ comes?Every year?

    Zechariah 14:16 Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.
     
  19. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    no ... because His word is very clear ... when He returns the 1st resurrection happens ... and those left are destroyed ... I provided the verses ... of which ... likely didn't even go look at.

    2 Thessalonians 2:8
    Berean Study Bible
    And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His arrival.

    Job 4:9
    By the breath of God they perish, and by the blast of His anger they are consumed.

    Isaiah 11:4
    but with righteousness He will judge the poor, and with equity He will decide in favor of the earth's oppressed. He will strike the earth with the rod of His mouth and slay the wicked with the breath of His lips.

    Matthew 16:27
    For the Son of Man will come in His Father's glory with His angels, and then He will repay each one according to what he has done.

    2 Thessalonians 1:9
    They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, separated from the presence of the Lord and the glory of His might,

    Job 4:9
    By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed.
     
  20. shilohsfoal

    shilohsfoal Jacks or better to open

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    When Christ comes the beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire. The beast which is a kingdom is destroyed. The entire world is not.
    The beast is a confederacy of ten nations in the middle east who fight against the Lamb for control of his kingdom.

    Christ comes during the war of Armegeddon.
    Armegeddon is not in Cuba or Hawaii.
    It's in Israel. The beast and the kings of the earth are fighting for control of Jerusalem. Not Mexico.

    Mexico is not destroyed because it's not the beast.
     
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