when should I rely on Jesus alone? does the bible states use faith with works all the time?

[marcosgpro]

Hello brothers and sisters. I have dilemma trying to understand this topic to improve my relationship with Jesus and grow spiritually. So, I know faith and action cannot be separate. they go hand to hand. however, when I read Romans 3:28 it states: "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law." Well in my understanding it means that faith not work can be justified only but when I read James 2:24: "As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone". does that sound contradictory? or am I taking out of context? for example, if I need motivation for a school, and I keep praying for that motivation, but it never comes, but I use a shirt or a material thing to motivate me, did that prayer worked or is it just the material thing that is working? of course, I am going to keep praying for it just to keep practicing faith on top of works.

 

[☦Marius☦]

You'll notice that in that passage it does not say "justified by his deeds ALONE". Faith and works are both necessary for salvation. However works and works of the law differ, with works of the law being the fulfillment of the Judaic code, both dietary and cleanly. Regular works are moral, good deeds. These increase faith.

 

[dreadnought]

Hello brothers and sisters. I have dilemma trying to understand this topic to improve my relationship with Jesus and grow spiritually. So, I know faith and action cannot be separate. they go hand to hand. however, when I read Romans 3:28 it states: "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law." Well in my understanding it means that faith not work can be justified only but when I read James 2:24: "As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone". does that sound contradictory? or am I taking out of context? for example, if I need motivation for a school, and I keep praying for that motivation, but it never comes, but I use a shirt or a material thing to motivate me, did that prayer worked or is it just the material thing that is working? of course, I am going to keep praying for it just to keep practicing faith on top of works.

Maybe the bottom line is that we can't let James or Paul do our thinking for us. Maybe we have to figure it out on our own.

 

[Not David]

Hello brothers and sisters. I have dilemma trying to understand this topic to improve my relationship with Jesus and grow spiritually. So, I know faith and action cannot be separate. they go hand to hand. however, when I read Romans 3:28 it states: "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law." Well in my understanding it means that faith not work can be justified only but when I read James 2:24: "As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone". does that sound contradictory? or am I taking out of context? for example, if I need motivation for a school, and I keep praying for that motivation, but it never comes, but I use a shirt or a material thing to motivate me, did that prayer worked or is it just the material thing that is working? of course, I am going to keep praying for it just to keep practicing faith on top of works.

I mean, I believe that works are part of someone's faith. If you don't have the works, then the faith is not alive. In that example that you mentioned, you need to find the motivation but trusting that God will give it to you.

 

[Thedictator]

No one can be saved by faith alone or dead faith, we are saved by a faith that must be accompanied by action: Trust in God, confession of sin, repentance of sin, and other actions as well. What we are not saved from is Faith and compliance to the Old Law.

 

[drjean]

The thief on the cross had no works, yet was received into eternal life by his faith.

When it's written that faith without works is dead, it's merely a measurement, an evaluation of your Christian activity and has nothing to do with salvation.

IF you are truly saved and wish to follow Jesus, then God says it is impossible to please Him without faith... the just WILL LIVE BY FAITH. Anything we do that we "know" we can do it alone is not living by faith... if we can see the how and make it so, it's not faith. To "work" at something without seeing the end result, without knowing we can accomplish it, fully relying upon God then that is faith. We put feet on our prayers, trusting that God will brings our efforts to fruition---those are our works that prove we are faithing in God.

The book of James (Jacob) was almost not canonized because of it's writings that appeared to contradict Scripture. However, study it with commentaries and you'll see to whom he is speaking, and of what he is meaning.

 

[St_Worm2]

....when I read Romans 3:28 it states: "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law." Well in my understanding it means that faith not work can be justified only but when I read James 2:24: "As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone". does that sound contradictory?

Yep .. if you give St. Paul's and St. James' use of δικαιόω [dikaioo] "justifed" the exact same meaning that is

St. James' 2nd chapter is not discussing salvation by faith alone -vs- salvation by faith + works, rather, he is telling us about 2 different "kinds" of faith (IOW, about a kind of faith that results in good works, and a different kind of faith that does not).

1. a "dead" faith (the kind of faith that he tells us is possessed by demons .. James 2:19). This is the kind of faith that produces NOTHING. And.......

2. a "lively" or "saving" faith - this is the kind of faith that results in all the things that "accompany" salvation, good works, the 24/7 desire to please and obey God in all that we do/say/think (and the desire to seek His forgiveness whenever we don't), etc..... This is why St. Paul tells us,

Titus 3
5 He saved us, NOT on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy.

Ephesians 2
8 By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus FOR or UNTO good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
​

Our good works, our ongoing choices to live a holy rather than a sinful lifestyle, and our daily choices to obey, glorify, & please God in everything that we do/say, is the RESULT/FRUIT of our salvation, NOT the cause of it.

Here is a great description of someone who is not saved (a non-Christian/a "natural" man or woman) from St. Paul:

1 Corinthians 2
14 A natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.​

How could such an person, who neither knows God, nor is capable of understanding or accepting the things of God as anything short of foolishness, choose to obey and please Him

In Romans 3, St. Paul speaks of being "justified" before God, but James 2 speaks of being "justified" concerning our claim of faith before men .. e.g. James 2:18 (both others faith, but especially our own .. 2 Corinthians 13:5), because again, true/saving faith always RESULTS in the things that accompany salvation. This is the only way we can truly assess whether we are saved or not because, unlike God, we cannot see the heart (even our own).

Yours and His,
David

Romans 11
6 If it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
.​

 

[SkyWriting]

Hello brothers and sisters. I have dilemma trying to understand this topic to improve my relationship with Jesus and grow spiritually. So, I know faith and action cannot be separate. they go hand to hand. however, when I read Romans 3:28 it states: "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law." Well in my understanding it means that faith not work can be justified only but when I read James 2:24: "As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone". does that sound contradictory? or am I taking out of context? for example, if I need motivation for a school, and I keep praying for that motivation, but it never comes, but I use a shirt or a material thing to motivate me, did that prayer worked or is it just the material thing that is working? of course, I am going to keep praying for it just to keep practicing faith on top of works.

Faith and works are seperate, but they are related.
Faith may be visible in what you do, but what you do does not give faith any credit. It's a one way street.

For prayer to be answered, you must ask for God to supply you the prayer.

 

[Tayla]

justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

"Works of the Law" refers to the Old Testament Jewish Mosaic Law. It does not refer to works done in faith.

 

[St_Worm2]

"Works of the Law" refers to the Old Testament Jewish Mosaic Law. It does not refer to works done in faith.

Works done “in faith” are works that Christians do because of the saving faith that we ~ALREADY~ possess. We are, after all, His workmanship (as it was God who gave us a new heart and a new spirit .. Ezekiel 36:26-27, quickened us and caused us to be born again .. John 3:3; Ephesians 2:1-5, and made us into new creatures in His Son .. 2 Corinthians 5:17), created in Christ Jesus FOR good works, not because of them ... see Ephesians 2:8-10.

—David

Titus 3
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy.​

 

[St_Worm2]

Should I rely on Jesus alone?

Yes, because you cannot atone for your own sins, not to mention the fact that you are, at best, forgiven .. not inherently innocent or righteous like He is. Therefore, you cannot stand in the presence of God if He has not credited/imputed your sin to His Son’s account, and His Son’s innocence and righteousness to your account .. 2 Corinthians 5:21.

Being saved “by faith” means being saved on the basis of the works of Another .. instead of your own works. IOW, you are saved by His perfect, innocent and righteous life (that He lived while He was here before His Father on your behalf), and by dying in your place on the Cross.

Jesus is your only innocence, your only righteousness, and the only atonement for your sins, that’s why you need to rely on Him alone for salvation. And even though we are not saved by the things that we do (or fail to do), good works, holy living, etc., must be present in the life of any Christian, or their “claim” or belief of being a Christian should not be considered as anything more than that (more than a mere claim or belief, that is).

Yours and His,
David

 

[Radagast]

No one can be saved by faith alone or dead faith, we are saved by a faith that must be accompanied by action

As they say, we are saved by faith alone, but not by a faith that is alone.

 

[redleghunter]

You'll notice that in that passage it does not say "justified by his deeds ALONE". Faith and works are both necessary for salvation. However works and works of the law differ, with works of the law being the fulfillment of the Judaic code, both dietary and cleanly. Regular works are moral, good deeds. These increase faith.

Which part of justification is on our works of righteousness?

 

[redleghunter]

Hello brothers and sisters. I have dilemma trying to understand this topic to improve my relationship with Jesus and grow spiritually. So, I know faith and action cannot be separate. they go hand to hand. however, when I read Romans 3:28 it states: "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law." Well in my understanding it means that faith not work can be justified only but when I read James 2:24: "As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone". does that sound contradictory? or am I taking out of context? for example, if I need motivation for a school, and I keep praying for that motivation, but it never comes, but I use a shirt or a material thing to motivate me, did that prayer worked or is it just the material thing that is working? of course, I am going to keep praying for it just to keep practicing faith on top of works.

Whose righteousness justifies?

 

[redleghunter]

Truth be told here:

Ephesians 2: NKJV

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

 

[redleghunter]

You'll notice that in that passage it does not say "justified by his deeds ALONE".

Can you explain this please.

Faith and works are both necessary for salvation.

Never saw that but have seen both are inseparable.

However works and works of the law differ, with works of the law being the fulfillment of the Judaic code, both dietary and cleanly. Regular works are moral, good deeds.

I hear this a lot but where do we get the moral law from? God's commands right? Again there is no difference. Paul is not speaking of heave offerings here but the moral law.

 

[redleghunter]

Maybe the bottom line is that we can't let James or Paul do our thinking for us. Maybe we have to figure it out on our own.

How do we do that exactly?

 

[redleghunter]

Hello brothers and sisters. I have dilemma trying to understand this topic to improve my relationship with Jesus and grow spiritually. So, I know faith and action cannot be separate. they go hand to hand. however, when I read Romans 3:28 it states: "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law." Well in my understanding it means that faith not work can be justified only but when I read James 2:24: "As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone". does that sound contradictory? or am I taking out of context? for example, if I need motivation for a school, and I keep praying for that motivation, but it never comes, but I use a shirt or a material thing to motivate me, did that prayer worked or is it just the material thing that is working? of course, I am going to keep praying for it just to keep practicing faith on top of works.

Hi brother Marco.

In short God wants us to 100% rely on Him. Several trials and errors on my part this is what I learned.

When we pray we must always understand our request is in accordance with His Will and not our own.

The tshirt material items may be motivational but sometimes we tend to create with our minds and hands things we want over God's will. The Israelites waited a long time for Moses to come back with the Law and decided they would create their own god in their image.

Not saying you are brewing a golden calf, but we must be patient and let the Lord work His Grace in us.

 

[Radagast]

am I taking out of context? for example, if I need motivation for a school, and I keep praying for that motivation, but it never comes, but I use a shirt or a material thing to motivate me, did that prayer worked or is it just the material thing that is working?

I've read you OP three times now, and I still don't quite understand it.

But the whole faith/works issue is about salvation.

Your question about motivation for school and "shirts" has nothing to do with it (although Ephesians 6:5-8 does apply).

 

[St_Worm2]

I've read you OP three times now, and I still don't quite understand it.

But the whole faith/works issue is about salvation.

Your question about motivation for school and "shirts" has nothing to do with it (although Ephesians 6:5-8 does apply).

I agree. The saving faith required to 'become' a Christian, and living the life of faith before God 'as' a Christian, are two very different things.

@marcosgpro, are you more interested in knowing about God's grace and saving faith that justifies/saves us when we 'become' Christians, or is your question about leading a better life of faith before God 'as' a Christian than you are doing right now?

Thanks!

--David