When Prayer Feels Dry (Podcast)

[Unofficial Reverand Alex]

“One act of trust at such moments gives greater glory to God than whole hours passed in prayer filled with consolations.”- St. Faustina​

This is definitely worth a listen. Right now, and for the past day or so, I've been praying for my friend who's really bad at replying to things efficiently to reply to my attempts to coordinate our fall break plans. I'm not quite sure if that sentence made sense, but I'm just trying to pray for a friend to respond to my messages, and nothing's happening, despite how much I pray. I still want prayers for her to respond in a timely fashion, but I think far more importantly is for both of us to have some sort of spiritual growth through this. I don't know how that would happen, but I try to trust that God will make it happen.

What I'm describing is not any kind of "dramatic" prayer; no one's on their deathbed, there's not a major storm or riot coming my way, and there's not much spiritual warfare going on. This is just something that would be so easy for God to answer right away, and He's not, and it's more and more discouraging over time.

Therefore, I bring forth this excellent description of prayer going dry. God, I'm talking to you, but nothing's happening (...I say with irony, remembering how much God talks to me & I look the other way). What do we do? What spiritual value is there in this?

Perhaps God answered my prayer faster than I gave Him credit for. Here's a wonderful podcast that popped up on my Facebook feed as I was trying to receive messages from my friend; I don't think I would've listened to it if things went my way.

When God Feels Far Away in Prayer - Ascension Press Media

Let give this a listen & let us know what you think!

 

[Gregory Thompson]

“One act of trust at such moments gives greater glory to God than whole hours passed in prayer filled with consolations.”- St. Faustina​

This is definitely worth a listen. Right now, and for the past day or so, I've been praying for my friend who's really bad at replying to things efficiently to reply to my attempts to coordinate our fall break plans. I'm not quite sure if that sentence made sense, but I'm just trying to pray for a friend to respond to my messages, and nothing's happening, despite how much I pray. I still want prayers for her to respond in a timely fashion, but I think far more importantly is for both of us to have some sort of spiritual growth through this. I don't know how that would happen, but I try to trust that God will make it happen.

What I'm describing is not any kind of "dramatic" prayer; no one's on their deathbed, there's not a major storm or riot coming my way, and there's not much spiritual warfare going on. This is just something that would be so easy for God to answer right away, and He's not, and it's more and more discouraging over time.

Therefore, I bring forth this excellent description of prayer going dry. God, I'm talking to you, but nothing's happening (...I say with irony, remembering how much God talks to me & I look the other way). What do we do? What spiritual value is there in this?

Perhaps God answered my prayer faster than I gave Him credit for. Here's a wonderful podcast that popped up on my Facebook feed as I was trying to receive messages from my friend; I don't think I would've listened to it if things went my way.

When God Feels Far Away in Prayer - Ascension Press Media

Let give this a listen & let us know what you think!

I listened to the podcast, thanks for sharing.

It had some good points.

I think the faithfulness and faith over outcome or feelings was the main discipline to take away from it.

And as disciplines go, consistency is always key.

 

[WebersHome]

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For many of us, prayer is a last resort; a grasping at straws because we simply have nowhere else to turn. We wish for success with prayer, while not really expecting it because we already know from plenty of experience that prayer too often leads into a cul-de-sac of perplexity and discouragement; so then, what's the use? In other words: prayer is very difficult for some Christians because it's often so futile.

Why doesn't God respond? And if He's not going to respond, then why keep on making a fool of ourselves trying to get through to an imaginary playmate when all the while its phone is off the hook?

It was this very issue that led Mother Teresa of Calcutta to question whether there really is a God out there. During virtually her entire five decades in India, Teresa felt not the slightest glimmer of The Lord's presence and suffered a good deal of anxiety wondering why Christ abandoned her.

I'm not making this up. You can read it for yourself in a collection of Teresa's private letters titled "Mother Teresa / Come Be My Light; The Private Writings of the Saint Of Calcutta" published with hierarchy approval by Father Brian Kolodiejchuk, director of the Mother Teresa center and a postulator for her canonization.

If the prayers of the most pious nun the 20th century ever produced went straight to perpetual voice mail, then why should John Q and Jane Doe pew warmer expect any different?

C.S. Lewis, famed author of "The Screwtape Letters", and "The Chronicles of Narnia" once remarked that he prayed, not because he expected results but, because it made him feel better.

Well, if prayer makes you feel better, then more power to you.
_

 

[K2K]

God responds!!

But do we listen?

I loved the OP - it makes an excellent point. Though instead of pointing people to a podcast, would it not be better to point them to the Lord who speaks?

If I think God is slow to respond to my questions, then that is how my faith is! And Jesus said 'according to your faith'. So we ask something of God but don't expect an instant answer from a friend speaking to us.

So if we change our thinking to 'God is with me, so He must be answering my questions', then our faith changes and you can hear the response!

So now let us look at how we pray and the thinking we have about it.

So many times I have seen where our prayers are something like, 'God give me this or that'. In the case in the OP that prayer seems to be "God give me a friend who will respond to me." God has given us all a friend who will respond to us, but He also gave people an ability to make choices (free will). They can choose not to answer the call, and so too can we choose not to answer the call.

Now God is wise and Jesus Christ explained that He stands at the door knocking with His voice so that if anyone hears His voice and opens the door He will come into them and eat with them and them with Him. (Rev 3:20) Yet with our prayers we make it about God doing something for us instead of listening to Him.

When I write on this forum I try to get people to listen to the Lord by faith. Prayer is supposed to be a conversation with God, but too often we make God into our personal "give me" machine!

He can and will give us friends, even close personal friends to go and do things with, but first don't we need to make Him our friend? Don't our prayers need to be about listening to Him first??

From listening to Him I have heard lots of really interesting things. I have written down some of the best of them, and some are on this subject:

WHEN WE TALK TO GOD, GOD TALKS TO US……. WHEN WE LISTEN TO GOD, GOD LISTENS TO US!


THE BEST LISTENERS MAKE THE BEST TEACHERS.


SHOULDN’T YOU HEAR FROM A MAN YOU’RE JUDGING WORTHY OF DEATH AND EXAMINE WHETHER THERE IS TRUTH IN WHAT HE SAYS. SO IT IS THAT I HAVE MADE HEARING FROM ME THE VERY THINGS THAT GIVES YOU ETERNAL LIFE.



What was the most common thing Jesus said in the Bible. Wasn't it something about having ears to hear?

People - the Lord wants us listening to Him, but we often make it about Him doing what we want. Who then to we think is God, Him or us?

Let us make our prayers about listening to Him. Then take our problems to Him to find out what you should do and not what He has to do!

 

[WebersHome]

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A fellow once informed me that he knows there's a God because he spoke with Him just this morning. Well: I was curious about God's voice so I asked the guy if God was a tenor, a bass, or a baritone? Does He speak fast or slow? Does He speak with an accent? Does God ramble on or break up His talk with a generous amount of pauses, like Carl Sagan? (I watch him on YouTube now and again)

Others have informed that they hear God in their minds as a still small voice when they pray. Well; I have to suggest to those folk that they consult a mental health professional because hearing voices in one's head is a symptom of schizophrenia; but more often it's likely just people's imaginations running away with them.
_

 

[K2K]

.
A fellow once informed me that he knows there's a God because he spoke with Him just this morning. Well: I was curious about God's voice so I asked the guy if God was a tenor, a bass, or a baritone? Does He speak fast or slow? Does He speak with an accent? Does God ramble on or break up His talk with a generous amount of pauses, like Carl Sagan? (I watch him on YouTube now and again)

Others have informed that they hear God in their minds as a still small voice when they pray. Well; I have to suggest to those folk that they consult a mental health professional because hearing voices in one's head is a symptom of schizophrenia; but more often it's likely just people's imaginations running away with them.
_

Over and over it is written "with their ears they don't hear"!!

God is spirit!! The Bible flat out tells us that!! The Bible explains the Holy Spirit is sent to us and speaks to us!! The Bible flat our tells us that!!

Jn 6:63 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

Of course the Holy Spirit is not the only spirit. So what about someone with symptoms of schizophrenia? Are they not hearing with their spiritual ears? Yet they are not hearing from God!

It was not someone like that who put Jesus on the cross, but those religious leaders who knew the Scriptures well (those Pharisees and Saducees) who with their ears didn't hear, that Jesus told at that time:

Jn 8:47 “He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.”

So we have this record in the Bible to let us know to not be like them, who studied the Scriptures but did not hear from the Holy Spirit speaking to their spirit. They were the ones who with their ears they did not hear and the ones who wanted Jesus dead. The one with with symptoms of schizophrenia would be compared to the man with "Legion" who needed Jesus and when he got a chance did come to Jesus for help to have "Legion" removed and put into a herd of pigs. That man went to Jesus for help, instead of wanting Him dead. That man praised the Lord for helping him, as opposed to the spiritual leaders who studied the Scriptures and went by tradition but did not hear the words of God!

I would much rather deal with a man with schizophrenia than with those religious leaders, though God sent Jesus to the Jews first. God still wishes that none would perish. So the gospel, the Good News which is that He stands at the door and if anyone hears His voice and opens His door He will come into the and eat with them and them with Him.

So it is I have a testimony, many testimonies but this one seems to apply:

One day the Lord asked me to stop at a local fast food restaurant. I wasn't hungry so I asked by with if she was hungry, but she wasn't. Still she said that if the Lord has asked you we had better do what He asked. So I went only because He asked.

When I got there, a man was making lots of noise and it was making the whole place uncomfortable. The was yelling, 'We will get him. We will get him."

I place my order, got my food when it came up. Then the Lord told me what I was hoping He would not tell me. He said, "Karl, I need you to talk to him." He was still making lots of noise and disturbing everyone.

"OK", I told the Lord, "but I will need your help."

He had me go up to get a refill of my drink, because the man was close to the drink machine. As he was speaking I stopped and asked the man, "Who is the 'we', you are referring to?"

The man was a bit taken back that anyone would talk to him. He told me that he had 600 friends and they were going to get that man. This man clearly looked to be a homeless man and he clearly did not have 600 friends in the physical sense. Anyway I talked to the man, found out that he had gotten on to someone's motorcycle across the street at the gas station and the man with the bike came out of the station and apparently hit this homeless man. Still, this man did not have 600 men as friends, so he had 600 demons, which means he was hearing from them. "Symptom of schizophrenia", right?

So I started to tell Him about seeking Jesus Christ as opposed to those 600 friends of his. The man started to laugh at me, but as he did I commanded those demons to be quick and instantly, halfway through his laugh he stopped and suddenly looked peaceful and quite. It was like, 'HA Ha H'. Then I was able to quietly talk to Him about Jesus Christ.

I had never seen this man before, but I saw him twice in that couple of weeks that followed. I do often eat at that place and the next time I was there with my wife I saw this man walking across the street. He saw me too and started dancing in the middle of the street in front of on coming traffic . He almost got run over, and then decided to not come in. About a week later I went there and the poor man was sitting looking very down and hungry in one of the seats. He was quiet, with his head down and looking dejected and humble. I got my food than hear the Lord say, "Karl, go buy him the same meal you got." So I got up and asked the man if he was hungry and would want something. Quietly he looked up at me and said that he would like something to eat. Anything would be ok by him. So I ordered what I had gotten like the Lord asked. I told the clerk that the man would be picking it up and I gave the ticket to the man. I never saw him around again.

 

[WebersHome]

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Probably one of the next things we'll see made for iPhone is a God app; a sort of divine Siri that gives people a direct line to heaven's counseling service.
_

 

[K2K]

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Probably one of the next things we'll see made for iPhone is a God app; a sort of divine Siri that gives people a direct line to heaven's counseling service.
_

People - we have a direct line to heaven!!!

He is called the Holy Spirit!!!

We also have a Wonderful Counselor!!!

We call Him Jesus Christ, but His name is called "The Word of God" because He talks to you via the Holy Spirit!

Jesus Christ, through His Holy Spirit, once told me, "Karl, I am called Wonderful Counselor and so I am, but I am not a wonderful counselor to those who don't listen to Me."


It is written that His sheep hear His voice!! Is is also written that His words are spirit!! And all I just wrote above is explained in your Bible!!

So why anyone would write a sarcastic post like we might have a direct line to heaven's counseling service on our phone? Is it because they don't know about the direct line to heaven we already have?

 

[Isilwen]

People - we have a direct line to heaven!!!

He is called the Holy Spirit!!!

We also have a Wonderful Counselor!!!

We call Him Jesus Christ, but His name is called "The Word of God" because He talks to you via the Holy Spirit!

Jesus Christ, through His Holy Spirit, once told me, "Karl, I am called Wonderful Counselor and so I am, but I am not a wonderful counselor to those who don't listen to Me."


It is written that His sheep hear His voice!! Is is also written that His words are spirit!! And all I just wrote above is explained in your Bible!!

So why anyone would write a sarcastic post like we might have a direct line to heaven's counseling service on our phone? Is it because they don't know about the direct line to heaven we already have?

2 Timothy 3:16-17

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

[K2K]

2 Timothy 3:16-17

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Yeah, but the Scriptures are not God talking to you.

If you listen to Him that He will use the Scriptures to teach you, rebuke you, correct you, and train you in righteousness, but do you know Him and the Word of God?

Paul wrote:


Gal 3:1,2 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

So do you hear Him by faith via the Spirit or not?

Paul also wrote:

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

So people in those time looked the the Scriptures instead of seek Jesus Christ and listening to Him who sends the Holy Spirit with His words to them personally.

They write that the Scriptures are good for teaching but do not know the Teacher who uses them for teaching, because they don't receive the Spirit by hearing with faith!

So this is the only thing I want to know from you. Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

Hearing Him talk to you via His Holy Spirit is definitely not the same thing as just reading the Scriptures. He can and will talk to you in the store, in the gates, in the shower, in the streets, while you read any time, when you write, and certainly Today. You have direct access to heaven now, via the Holy Spirit but how listens and who is just trying to do good works according to their understanding of the Law?

 

[Isilwen]

2 Timothy 3:16-17

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

I simply do not agree with your interpretation of things.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

I suggest you read that scripture over again, and then read it again, and make sure you read the whole chapter and then read it again. Maybe then you will see that it does not say what you say it says.

So people in those time looked the the Scriptures instead of seek Jesus Christ and listening to Him who sends the Holy Spirit with His words to them personally.

They write that the Scriptures are good for teaching but do not know the Teacher who uses them for teaching, because they don't receive the Spirit by hearing with faith!

I suggest that maybe you shouldn't blame Paul for your misunderstandings. He is the one who wrote that the scriptures are good for teaching. He used absolute terms within that teaching.

What you have is extra-biblical revelation which I do not believe in.

 

[Isilwen]

Yeah, but the Scriptures are not God talking to you.

It very much is!

I suggest reading up on the sufficiency of scripture and knowing what it means and why it is right.

 

[K2K]

It very much is!

I suggest reading up on the sufficiency of scripture and knowing what it means and why it is right.

NO the Scriptures were God talking to those who wrote them!! He asked them to writing His words down, and you can read them, but reading is not hearing!!

Do you not know that God has a voice?? That His words are spirit? That His sheep hear His voice in words that are picked up in their spirit so that His words are found in their heart and perhaps in their mouth? This is all explained in the writings, so read and study the writings, but if you don't believe the writing telling you that the word of God is near you, in your heart and mouth, how are you going to hear His Holy Spirit talking to your spirit?

Jn 5:46,47 “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. “But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”



I come to this Christian forum thinking I will find people who like me hear from Him. In the OP I liked something I read. I read:

Perhaps God answered my prayer faster than I gave Him credit for. Here's a wonderful podcast that popped up on my Facebook feed as I was trying to receive messages from my friend; I don't think I would've listened to it if things went my way.

And I saw some wisdom from God in the OP. God does answer our prayers faster than we give Him credit. Now it is not the podcast we so badly need to listen to, but the Lord our God we need to listen to. The Lord our God speaks, but some do not know Him!

Is 1:2 Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth;
For the LORD speaks,
“Sons I have reared and brought up,

Is 1:3 But they have revolted against Me.
“An ox knows its owner,
And a donkey its master’s manger,
But Israel does not know,
My people do not understand.”

Sadly, what I often find is a people who think God is so slow to answer that His words are not near us, in our heart and mouth. They say all the words we have from Him are those written down a few thousand years ago! Perhaps He will return someday soon, implying that He is either still dead or in a far off place called heaven. Based on that false conclusion they tell themselves that reading the sacred writing is hearing from Him. They don't know to listen "For the LORD speaks," They have revolted against Him. They don't even know their owner and His voice like an ox or a donkey would. They don't understand.

 

[Isilwen]

NO the Scriptures were God talking to those who wrote them!! He asked them to writing His words down, and you can read them, but reading is not hearing!!

Do you not know that God has a voice?? That His words are spirit? That His sheep hear His voice in words that are picked up in their spirit so that His words are found in their heart and perhaps in their mouth? This is all explained in the writings, so read and study the writings, but if you don't believe the writing telling you that the word of God is near you, in your heart and mouth, how are you going to hear His Holy Spirit talking to your spirit?

Jn 5:46,47 “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. “But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”



I come to this Christian forum thinking I will find people who like me hear from Him. In the OP I liked something I read. I read:



And I saw some wisdom from God in the OP. God does answer our prayers faster than we give Him credit. Now it is not the podcast we so badly need to listen to, but the Lord our God we need to listen to. The Lord our God speaks, but some do not know Him!

Is 1:2 Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth;
For the LORD speaks,
“Sons I have reared and brought up,

Is 1:3 But they have revolted against Me.
“An ox knows its owner,
And a donkey its master’s manger,
But Israel does not know,
My people do not understand.”

Sadly, what I often find is a people who think God is so slow to answer that His words are not near us, in our heart and mouth. They say all the words we have from Him are those written down a few thousand years ago! Perhaps He will return someday soon, implying that He is either still dead or in a far off place called heaven. Based on that false conclusion they tell themselves that reading the sacred writing is hearing from Him. They don't know to listen "For the LORD speaks," They have revolted against Him. They don't even know their owner and His voice like an ox or a donkey would. They don't understand.

2 Timothy 3:16-17

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

All you speak of is extra-biblical revelation. I do not believe in extra-biblical revelation. I believe in the sufficiency of scripture.

 

[K2K]

2 Timothy 3:16-17

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

All you speak of is extra-biblical revelation. I do not believe in extra-biblical revelation. I believe in the sufficiency of scripture.

Yeah - we have discussed this before. You believe the Scriptures are all you need - how ever the Scriptures tell you that you need Jesus Christ.

So I write telling people about Jesus Christ who I have come to know (and I am not alone in knowing Him) and your write back saying that you don't believe in "extra-biblical revelation.
I might then point out a verse like:

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Yet you reject the verse and go back to your interpretation of 2 Tim 3:16-17 because you again think the Scripture are all sufficient even though Gal 3:22 proves that they are not.

So perhaps I can point out 2 Tim 3:15 because it is right next to those verse you think prove your point but they don't.

2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

You see the "able to" which does not mean they do but can. So you might have read them and not gotten the wisdom that leads to salvation! And do you not read the "through faith which is in Christ Jesus?" So salvation is not though the Scriptures but through faith which is in Christ Jesus. Can you not see that proves the Scriptures are not that which is the "sufficiency"? It is clearly not the Scriptures which get you into heaven! They are not sufficient for that! So then I have quoted Jesus Christ as recorded in the Scriptures saying:

Jn 5:39,40 “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

So you write something like - 'Oh, because I read and trust in the Scriptures Jesus Christ will come for me and give me eternal life.'

Yet that would mean you don't know that He is with you always. You are saying in your heart that He is either dead and not come back to life or is in some far off place called heaven and will return someday - or why else do you not seek Him today and listen to what He has to say today. You obviously don't even think He can speak to you today. So I usually reply with Roman 10 which shows that the word is near us and that we are not to say in our heart that Jesus Christ is either dead or in a far off place called heaven, or I might quote something from Jn 10 which talks about His sheep actually hearing His voice and being lead by His voice.

What it actually comes down to though, is that you are going to refuse to believe in Jesus Christ as being with you and talking to you via His Holy Spirit talking to your spirit. That is not believe what is written in the Bible, and is why I can show you verse after verse proving that idea wrong. Indeed, I can quote verse after verse from the Bible which explains that is the problem people have been having and is seen all through the Bible.

Still - even that fact that Jesus has been trying to get people to listen to Him all along, is not why I respond to you and others on this forum. I respond to them because I do hear from Him and that produces two reasons to respond. One is because the Lord cares for people and does not want any to perish, so He tells me to point out that salvation is through Him, just like 2 Tim 3:15 explained. And also because I hear from Him I too get to caring for the people and don't want any to perish. So I agree with Him and try to point people to actually hearing from Him as the Word of God who said He stands at the door and knocks and if anyone hears His voice and opens the door He will come into them and eat with them. (Rev 3:20)

So I testify about things I have heard and respond with Scriptures in order that people might believe in Him who I know and believe in Him and be saved. Still if they don't accept my testimony about Him being alive and active, and that His sheep actually do hear His voice on a specific day called "Today", and if they won't even believe the very Scriptures they claim are "sufficient", then what else can be done for them?

Another verse like: Jn 5:46 “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me.

No - they don't actually believe Moses who wrote about Him.

So perhaps another testimony like when He told me:

WE DON’T USE THE LORD TO PREACH THE SCRIPTURES; WE USE THE SCRIPTURES TO PREACH THE LORD!!

No - they won't accept my testimony either just like it is written:

Jn 3:11 “Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.

Anyway - I will leave you with another testimony.

I was walking and talking with the Lord yesterday. This problem came up in our conversation. I was indeed telling Him, "What else can I do, Lord". He talked to me about how frustrating it was for Him too, trying to get people who will not listen to turn and listen to Him is not easy. Towards the end of the walk, as we talked and He tried to listen and encourage me while I tried to listen to him, He finally told me, "Karl, what about a break. I am going to give you kind of like a sabbatical leave." I told Him I would wrap up the threads I was on and He told me that He was going to give me a season of just Him and I walking together.

I could use the break, but that does not mean I don't care about the people. I do care about you Isilwen and hope you to can come to walk and talk with Him. Until then, I know that you would be want to convince me to just live by my understanding of the Scriptures and I would be wanting to convince you to live by every word that comes out of the Lord who said he would never leave you and He meant it.

 

[Isilwen]

Yeah - we have discussed this before. You believe the Scriptures are all you need - how ever the Scriptures tell you that you need Jesus Christ.

So I write telling people about Jesus Christ who I have come to know (and I am not alone in knowing Him) and your write back saying that you don't believe in "extra-biblical revelation.
I might then point out a verse like:

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Yet you reject the verse and go back to your interpretation of 2 Tim 3:16-17 because you again think the Scripture are all sufficient even though Gal 3:22 proves that they are not.

So perhaps I can point out 2 Tim 3:15 because it is right next to those verse you think prove your point but they don't.

2 Tim 3:15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

You see the "able to" which does not mean they do but can. So you might have read them and not gotten the wisdom that leads to salvation! And do you not read the "through faith which is in Christ Jesus?" So salvation is not though the Scriptures but through faith which is in Christ Jesus. Can you not see that proves the Scriptures are not that which is the "sufficiency"? It is clearly not the Scriptures which get you into heaven! They are not sufficient for that! So then I have quoted Jesus Christ as recorded in the Scriptures saying:

Jn 5:39,40 “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

So you write something like - 'Oh, because I read and trust in the Scriptures Jesus Christ will come for me and give me eternal life.'

Yet that would mean you don't know that He is with you always. You are saying in your heart that He is either dead and not come back to life or is in some far off place called heaven and will return someday - or why else do you not seek Him today and listen to what He has to say today. You obviously don't even think He can speak to you today. So I usually reply with Roman 10 which shows that the word is near us and that we are not to say in our heart that Jesus Christ is either dead or in a far off place called heaven, or I might quote something from Jn 10 which talks about His sheep actually hearing His voice and being lead by His voice.

What it actually comes down to though, is that you are going to refuse to believe in Jesus Christ as being with you and talking to you via His Holy Spirit talking to your spirit. That is not believe what is written in the Bible, and is why I can show you verse after verse proving that idea wrong. Indeed, I can quote verse after verse from the Bible which explains that is the problem people have been having and is seen all through the Bible.

Still - even that fact that Jesus has been trying to get people to listen to Him all along, is not why I respond to you and others on this forum. I respond to them because I do hear from Him and that produces two reasons to respond. One is because the Lord cares for people and does not want any to perish, so He tells me to point out that salvation is through Him, just like 2 Tim 3:15 explained. And also because I hear from Him I too get to caring for the people and don't want any to perish. So I agree with Him and try to point people to actually hearing from Him as the Word of God who said He stands at the door and knocks and if anyone hears His voice and opens the door He will come into them and eat with them. (Rev 3:20)

So I testify about things I have heard and respond with Scriptures in order that people might believe in Him who I know and believe in Him and be saved. Still if they don't accept my testimony about Him being alive and active, and that His sheep actually do hear His voice on a specific day called "Today", and if they won't even believe the very Scriptures they claim are "sufficient", then what else can be done for them?

Another verse like: Jn 5:46 “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me.

No - they don't actually believe Moses who wrote about Him.

So perhaps another testimony like when He told me:

WE DON’T USE THE LORD TO PREACH THE SCRIPTURES; WE USE THE SCRIPTURES TO PREACH THE LORD!!

No - they won't accept my testimony either just like it is written:

Jn 3:11 “Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.

Anyway - I will leave you with another testimony.

I was walking and talking with the Lord yesterday. This problem came up in our conversation. I was indeed telling Him, "What else can I do, Lord". He talked to me about how frustrating it was for Him too, trying to get people who will not listen to turn and listen to Him is not easy. Towards the end of the walk, as we talked and He tried to listen and encourage me while I tried to listen to him, He finally told me, "Karl, what about a break. I am going to give you kind of like a sabbatical leave." I told Him I would wrap up the threads I was on and He told me that He was going to give me a season of just Him and I walking together.

I could use the break, but that does not mean I don't care about the people. I do care about you Isilwen and hope you to can come to walk and talk with Him. Until then, I know that you would be want to convince me to just live by my understanding of the Scriptures and I would be wanting to convince you to live by every word that comes out of the Lord who said he would never leave you and He meant it.

A whole lot of nothing in your reply. I will never be convinced by you. I believe in the sufficiency of scripture and always will. I am sorry, but I just do not believe that you are talking to Jesus.

With that said, my belief is indeed in Jesus to save me, not the scriptures, but what Jesus did at the cross and then being raised three days later to sit at the right hand of the Father. The Bible teaches us to live a Christian life without the need for extra-biblical revelation.