When Jesus died on the cross...

[Dave L]

Your point is? That quote does not refute my point.

If the wages of sin is death, why do babies who never consciously sin - die?

 

[zoidar]

When Jesus died on the cross did God unleash his wrath on him? If yes, is that wrath forever satisfied? I apologize if this is a stupid question but when I googled it I got so many different answers. Half of the articles say that Christs death was in no way the result of Gods wrath and the other articles said that God the Father unleashed his wrath upon Jesus and that wrath is forever satisfied. It would make sense that God would have to unleash his wrath somehow why not on Jesus? I mean how else is salvation possible but by the death of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ?

Also if yes, what about Jesus's wrath? How was that satisfied?

I believe the early Church didn't saw it as God pouring His wrath on Jesus, rather God let Satan have his way on Jesus and in him doing so the consequence of sin and death struck Jesus, and Satan had no longer any right over man. Instead man was brought back to the rule of God. Satan believed he won victory crucifying God's Son, instead he lost big time.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

If the wages of sin is death, why do babies who never consciously sin - die?

Because as I said, sin brought death into the world. We suffer the consequences of that sin but we are not guilty of it, that is Roman Catholic theology.

 

[1213]

When Jesus died on the cross did God unleash his wrath on him?... I mean how else is salvation possible but by the death of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ?

I don’t think Bible speaks that God’s wrath was satisfied by killing Jesus. And forgiveness was already possible before death, as this following scripture shows:


The scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, "Who is this that speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?" But Jesus, perceiving their thoughts, answered them, "Why are you reasoning so in your hearts? Which is easier to say, 'Your sins are forgiven you;' or to say, 'Arise and walk?' But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins" (he said to the paralyzed man), "I tell you, arise, and take up your cot, and go to your house." Immediately he rose up before them, and took up that which he was laying on, and departed to his house, glorifying God.
Luke 5:21-25

Disciples of Jesus have that same right:


Whoever's sins you forgive, they are forgiven them. Whoever's sins you retain, they have been retained."
John 20:23

 

[Dave L]

Because as I said, sin brought death into the world. We suffer the consequences of that sin but we are not guilty of it, that is Roman Catholic theology.

How can God be just punishing innocent victims?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

How can God be just punishing innocent victims?

How is He punishing innocent victims? In an earthquake the sinful as well as the righteous are killed. That is the consequence of the earthquake.WE did his to ourselves, Adam had free will...we live in a fallen world.

 

[Dave L]

How is He punishing innocent victims? In an earthquake the sinful as well as the righteous are killed. That is the consequence of the earthquake.WE did his to ourselves, Adam had free will...we live in a fallen world.

How good would God be if he didn't stop suffering being able to do so? If he cannot, he is not omnipotent.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

How good would God be if he didn't stop suffering being able to do so? If he cannot, he is not omnipotent.

That's silly! Then you obviously don't believe we have free will...

 

[Dave L]

That's silly! Then you obviously don't believe we have free will...

We lost that in the Fall too.

“Jesus answered them, “I tell you the solemn truth, everyone who practices sin is a slave of sin.” (John 8:34)

“As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:” (Romans 3:10)

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

We lost that in the Fall too.

“Jesus answered them, “I tell you the solemn truth, everyone who practices sin is a slave of sin.” (John 8:34)

“As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:” (Romans 3:10)

We lost our free will in the Fall?????

 

[Dave L]

We lost our free will in the Fall?????

If you did not, why do you need Christ to save you?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

If you did not, why do you need Christ to save you?

What LOL??? We did not lose our free will in the fall. Adam chose to sin. We choose to sin. We choose to accept Yeshua or not. Were are not forced. What are you talking about?!?!?!

 

[Dave L]

What LOL??? We did not lose our free will in the fall. Adam chose to sin. We choose to sin. We choose to accept Yeshua or not. Were not forced. What are you talking about?!?!?!

Why no choose to be holy apart from Christ if your will is free?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Why no choose to be holy apart from Christ if your will is free?

So you cant choose to be good or do evil? We are all just robots? I am not even sure what you are trying to say because it seems so silly

 

[Dave L]

So you cant choose to be good or do evil? We are all just robots? I am not even sure what you are trying to say because it seems so silly

Your will only reacts. It never acts without a reason. God controls us through our wanting to choose what we do, for the reasons he sends.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Your will only reacts. It never acts without a reason. God controls us through our wanting to choose what we do, for the reasons he sends.

If He created us without complete free will, He would make us slaves and robots and we would not need salvation because we would never sin. We CHOOSE to follow Him. We do it of our own free will.

 

[Dave L]

If He created us without complete free will, He would make us slaves and robots and we would not need salvation because we would never sin. We CHOOSE to follow Him. We do it of our own free will.

We are slaves to the reasons we base our choices on.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

We are slaves to the reasons we base our choices on.

That has nothing to do with anything...we all still use free will to make those choices. You say some really silly things...

 

[Pneuma3]

When Jesus died on the cross did God unleash his wrath on him? If yes, is that wrath forever satisfied? I apologize if this is a stupid question but when I googled it I got so many different answers. Half of the articles say that Christs death was in no way the result of Gods wrath and the other articles said that God the Father unleashed his wrath upon Jesus and that wrath is forever satisfied. It would make sense that God would have to unleash his wrath somehow why not on Jesus? I mean how else is salvation possible but by the death of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ?

Also if yes, what about Jesus's wrath? How was that satisfied?

Hi Neo I am going to take you in a different direction on this.

The wrath of God is the law
Jesus was born under the law
Jesus fulfilled the law
Thus Gods wrath (the power of the law) was satisfied.

 

[AFrazier]

When Jesus died on the cross did God unleash his wrath on him? If yes, is that wrath forever satisfied? I apologize if this is a stupid question but when I googled it I got so many different answers. Half of the articles say that Christs death was in no way the result of Gods wrath and the other articles said that God the Father unleashed his wrath upon Jesus and that wrath is forever satisfied. It would make sense that God would have to unleash his wrath somehow why not on Jesus? I mean how else is salvation possible but by the death of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ?

Also if yes, what about Jesus's wrath? How was that satisfied?

This is a little out of the normal way of looking at this subject, but when I consider all the relevant scripture involved, what I find is that Jesus was the object of God's wrath upon his own self. Taking it as read that Jesus is God in the flesh, it is God who bore our sins. And in accordance with the law, there must be a sacrifice for sin. So God sent a lamb to atone for the sins he carried. Hence, Jesus is the Lamb of God, or more precisely with the genitive denoting possession, God's lamb. God didn't send Jesus to be a sin offering for us, but to be a sin offering for himself, being himself in possession of, and under the burden of, our sins.

Think on that for a while.