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There are no "good" people. That's the very reason for the cross.
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When it comes to other religions, what is the bottom line?
- Thread starter Bee_Brian
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There are no "good" people. That's the very reason for the cross.
All people of all faiths who seek God will go through the spiritual gravity of the Son regardless of weather they understand this or not. The creator Son has always been the way, before, during and after his incarnation as one of us. "No-one gets to the Father except through me".
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JoeP222w
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Yes, because apart from Christ, there is no forgiveness of sin, no eternal life.
It is irrelevant whether or not a person believes in Hell. Hell exists and God justly grant eternal punishment to those who hate Him and reject Him.
Yet for this time, He is granting them grace and mercy, but that will not always be the case. The just judge of the universe will do what is right.
The Pope is a liar and does not know the Bible at all. The Bible says that there no such things as "good" people. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
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One thing is certain, judgment begins in the Church 1 Peter 4:17 but the remainder of that point, what happens to those who don't obey in the gospel of God is not elaborated on in that letter. There is another scripture which does talk about the entirety of people which would include other religions in Revelation 20:11-12. They are to be judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
I think at face value everyone is to be judged by the God of Israel and He has certain standards that will be the basis of His judgement.
I believe another issue may play an important part due to this topic. A person my become so obsessed with figuring out everyone else's salvation that they forget about their own.
I think at face value everyone is to be judged by the God of Israel and He has certain standards that will be the basis of His judgement.
I believe another issue may play an important part due to this topic. A person my become so obsessed with figuring out everyone else's salvation that they forget about their own.
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Christianity is not a religion. It is biology. God became the man Jesus Christ to create a new humanity. The man Jesus is the seed of that humanity. He said that unless a seed fall into the ground and die, it can not regrow. Our hearts are the soil of that new seed which gives birth to the new humanity in the spirit first. Later when we shed these mortal bodies in the ground like a butterfly breaking out of a cocoon, we will have new glorified bodies that will be immortal. This is salvation. Those who reject this salvation will remain in the old humanity which is already dead and decomposing through old age. That decomposition will continue in the second death called the lake of fire where the worm never dies and the fire is never quenched.
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chilehed
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God's creation is part of his revelation of himself.
Scripture says that everyone has some idea of God. It's undeniable that many non-Christians are seeking God - they may have false ideas about Him but they're seeking Him nonetheless, and NO ONE can seek God except on God's initiative. The fact that they're seeking God, however imperfectly, shows that He is working in their lives.
Romans 1:18-21 says "The wrath of God is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness. For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it evident to them. Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have no excuse; for although they knew God they did not accord him glory as God or give him thanks. Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless minds were darkened."
So here scripture explicitly says that one can know God by natural revelation, right? Someone who does evil can’t legitimately claim that he never knew about God, because God made sure through creation that everyone knows about him. The passage doesn’t say that they’re wicked because they don’t know God, what it says is that they’re wicked because they know God well enough and they reject him anyway!
A Protestant might say that that level of knowledge is not salvific, that you can’t be saved if that’s the limit of your knowledge of God. But there are two problems with that viewpoint. First, that would mean that people are lost because God requires them to know what they cannot know, and they cannot know it because God didn’t allow them to know it. That would violate God’s perfect justice. Second, it would mean that one can only be saved through the attainment of information which is hidden to all but a select few, which is at the core of the gnostic heresies.
If one has to have heard of Jesus in order to be saved, then never having had the opportunity to hear of him is a really good excuse for never having heard of him. But the bible specifically says that even these people have no excuse for rejecting God, because they did know about him and they rejected him anyway. What gets you into hell is rejecting God. If you don’t know about Jesus then you can’t very well be culpable for rejecting him, because you can only reject what you know about. God holds us accountable only for what we know, and not for what we cannot know.
And so the Church teaches that even these people may be saved (not that they will be saved, but only that they may be saved) through the merits of Christ, by means of which we do not know.
I like the way C. S. Lewis said it in Chapter 15 of The Last Battle. In it, Emeth tells of his meeting with Aslan:
Anyone who is saved, is saved through Christ
Scripture says that everyone has some idea of God. It's undeniable that many non-Christians are seeking God - they may have false ideas about Him but they're seeking Him nonetheless, and NO ONE can seek God except on God's initiative. The fact that they're seeking God, however imperfectly, shows that He is working in their lives.
Romans 1:18-21 says "The wrath of God is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness. For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it evident to them. Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have no excuse; for although they knew God they did not accord him glory as God or give him thanks. Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless minds were darkened."
So here scripture explicitly says that one can know God by natural revelation, right? Someone who does evil can’t legitimately claim that he never knew about God, because God made sure through creation that everyone knows about him. The passage doesn’t say that they’re wicked because they don’t know God, what it says is that they’re wicked because they know God well enough and they reject him anyway!
A Protestant might say that that level of knowledge is not salvific, that you can’t be saved if that’s the limit of your knowledge of God. But there are two problems with that viewpoint. First, that would mean that people are lost because God requires them to know what they cannot know, and they cannot know it because God didn’t allow them to know it. That would violate God’s perfect justice. Second, it would mean that one can only be saved through the attainment of information which is hidden to all but a select few, which is at the core of the gnostic heresies.
If one has to have heard of Jesus in order to be saved, then never having had the opportunity to hear of him is a really good excuse for never having heard of him. But the bible specifically says that even these people have no excuse for rejecting God, because they did know about him and they rejected him anyway. What gets you into hell is rejecting God. If you don’t know about Jesus then you can’t very well be culpable for rejecting him, because you can only reject what you know about. God holds us accountable only for what we know, and not for what we cannot know.
And so the Church teaches that even these people may be saved (not that they will be saved, but only that they may be saved) through the merits of Christ, by means of which we do not know.
I like the way C. S. Lewis said it in Chapter 15 of The Last Battle. In it, Emeth tells of his meeting with Aslan:
Then I fell at his feet and thought, Surely this is the hour of death, for the Lion (who is worthy of all honor) will know that I have served Tash all my days and not him. Nevertheless, it is better to see the Lion and die than to be Tisroc of the world and live and not to have seen him. But the Glorious One bent down his golden head and touched my forehead with his tongue and said, "Son, thou art welcome." But I said, "Alas, Lord, I am no son of thine but the servant of Tash." He answered, "Child, all the service thou hast done to Tash, I account as service done to me." Then by reason of my great desire for wisdom and understanding, I overcame my fear and questioned the Glorious One and said "Lord, is it then true, as the Ape said, that thou and Tash are one"" The Lion growled so that the earth shook (but his wrath was not against me) and said, "It is false. Not because he and I are one, but because we are opposites - I take to me the services which thou hast done to him. For he and I are of such different kinds that no service which is vile can be done to me, and none which is not vile can be done to him. Therefore, if any man swear by Tash and keep his oath for the oath's sake, it is by me that he has truly sworn, though he know it not, and it is I who reward him. And if any man do cruelty in my name, then, though he says the name Aslan, it is Tash whom he serves and by Tash his deed is accepted. Dost thou understand, Child?" I said "Lord, thou knowest how much I understand." But I said also (for the truth constrained me), "Yet I have been seeking Tash all my days." "Beloved," said the Glorious One, "unless thy desire had been for me thou wouldst not have sought so long and so truly. For all find what they truly seek."
Anyone who is saved, is saved through Christ
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We are all sinners so being "good" has nothing to with salvation.
All can be saved by declaring with their mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in their heart that God raised Him from the dead. For it is with your heart that you believe and with your mouth that your profess your faith and are saved (Romans 10:9 -10)
We are saved by Gods grace, love and mercy not by being "good"
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I wouldn't be surprised to see Gandhi in heaven. I've become aware he was fond of Christian hymns at his prayer services and carried a new testament around with him sometimes in India. Was he an "anomymous Christian"?
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Phil 1:21
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Faith in name only is dead. If we have true faith in our Lord Jesus Christ we will want to live our lives according to His word. Now, before this devolves into another "faith alone versus works" argument, we do good not to become saved but because we are saved.
James 3:14-26
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
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marineimaging
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God does not send anybody to hell. We are all hell-bound by default. God gave us a way to avoid hell by the payment of His only begotten son, Jesus. Friend, nobody is going to be saved if they do not believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour and that is the bottom line. Just being good enough is not good enough. Nobody can be good enough. Even our human best it trash. Jesus didn't go to the cross to take goodness to hell for burial. The bottom line is to believe in Jesus, sincerely repent of your sins, turn about and walk with the Lord. Be baptized in the name of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit to show your public confession of faith.
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RaymondG
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Why do you feel that the God who is Love, would create babies, against their will, bound to hell fire by default? If you knew that there was a great chance that your own children would be tortured if you had them......would you still choose to have them just to say you "have children?"
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1213
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Perhaps it would be good to rely only in the words of Jesus. He said:
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46
If person is righteous, he gets the eternal life. It may be possible that people who have not yet heard of Jesus are righteous. If they are, their actions prove it.
He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10
And it is also good to notice this:
For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without the law. As many as have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it isn't the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law will be justified (for when Gentiles who don't have the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying with them, and their thoughts among themselves accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.
Romans 2:12-16
On basis of those, it is possible that person is righteous, even if he is not yet Christian.
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If your being deceived, your responsibility as the veil is being lifted, is like, connected to how much or how far the veil has been lifted... And they are in proportion to one another...
Perhaps... (It's a theory)...
But you kinda get what I'm trying to say in general, right...? Responsibility, opportunity, ability...
God Bless!
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There is another possible aspect that could change the narrative here.
Consider for a moment the great white throne judgement: the books were opened and they checked to see if the name was in the book of life or not. Most of us assume that nobody present at that event will have their names in the book of life. But why? Does it say that? No it doesn't.
It says that if anyone's name WAS NOT FOUND in the book of life was cast off. The reason the books were opened was to check. They were judged by their works, and I believe what the determining factor will be their intentions, motives and agendas.
So it seems that there will indeed be people who will go into eternal life based on their character and mannerisms. OK, some of this is conjecture, but this scenario aligns with the character of God, the shepherd who leaves 99 sheep to get back the lost one. Maybe the truly good people of other religions?
I read this weird comment someone made once that the Saints, the true church will become like Yeshua and the people found to be righteous will have eternal life with new bodies but confined to the earth. That's really out there, but it could even be possible.
Consider for a moment the great white throne judgement: the books were opened and they checked to see if the name was in the book of life or not. Most of us assume that nobody present at that event will have their names in the book of life. But why? Does it say that? No it doesn't.
It says that if anyone's name WAS NOT FOUND in the book of life was cast off. The reason the books were opened was to check. They were judged by their works, and I believe what the determining factor will be their intentions, motives and agendas.
So it seems that there will indeed be people who will go into eternal life based on their character and mannerisms. OK, some of this is conjecture, but this scenario aligns with the character of God, the shepherd who leaves 99 sheep to get back the lost one. Maybe the truly good people of other religions?
I read this weird comment someone made once that the Saints, the true church will become like Yeshua and the people found to be righteous will have eternal life with new bodies but confined to the earth. That's really out there, but it could even be possible.
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Those in the first resurrection, will not (need to be) judged by their deeds, but after the thousand year reign, or age of Christ, those taking part in the second resurrection, and some or all (can't remember) judged by their works...
But, if you truly have a good heart, don't you think you'll have good works as far as God is concerned, for it...?
God Bless!
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