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When is the first day ?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by strangertoo, Mar 24, 2012.

  1. strangertoo

    strangertoo sin is diabolical abuse of fellow humans-1John 3:8

    Christian Seeker
    ... Bearing in mind that God has no gender , but most draw back from calling 'Him' 'It'... the image of God as 'Father' is a good analogy , we as very naughty children sinning when He tells us we do ourseves harm that way and seeks to convince us lovingly to TRY LOVE and find out how much MORE ALIVE we feel ay ONE with our own created hearts, conscience, mind and our spirit 'from' Him ...

    Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

    it is then only by our spirit , given to ALL by God , that we can be resurrected , noting for instance that our bodies, the very elements thereof are destroyed with this earth and heavens, and only that which is of God cannot be destroyed...

    Luke 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
    35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

    gender then is a thing of this sex-obsessed world of evil... it is of little interest even to the few saints of this world :-

    Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord:
    yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.
    I suppose therefore that this is good for the present distress,
    I say,
    that it is good for a man so to be.
    27 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.
    But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned;
    and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned.
    Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.
    But this I say, brethren, the time is short:
    it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none
    1 Corinthians 7:24-29

    ... sex was good ofr multiplying to fill the earth, but we have done that to XS , 50,000 mostly little kids , increasing numbers, die DAILY of simple MISERABLE starvation because men do not LOVE one another...

    ... sex is no longer much about reproduction so much as lust, pleasure, even in fornication, or between those of same gender mocking God's division of the sexes, ... what use this as an analogy ?

    God speaks of Israel as the 'wife' of His 'youth' by analogy , that He will take back [as per the new covenant - Jer 31:31-34 - grace to those rejected ... and Christ the bridegroom of the renewed marriage ceremony for those whose fathers broke the old covenant ...

    but it is for sake of God's promise, that prophecy may be seen to come true, showing the power of LOVE , of God, to overcome rebellious stiff-necked Israel by love alone ... to persuade of His truth in face of lies by Satan...

    again it is not really about gender ...

    and it is not only about Jews and gentiles either , since Jesus was sent ONLY to the House of Israel and they were never Jews , never accepted Judaism , did not even worship God and still do not except a few whom saints have taught to seek God

    Deuteronomy 28:64 And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.

    Now the 'Jews' [House of Judah = tribe of Judah + half the tribe of Levi as priests+ some of Benjamin] did not serve God very well according to Jesus' witness... but they did serve God ,however well or badly... it is then the House of Israel which was scattered first amongst all nations to serve other gods which their fathers had not known , not the Jews... who were scattered later ... but kept their identity as Israel ... as a people ... because of Judaism , but not the House of Israel led by Ephraim :-

    Isaiah 7:8 For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin; and within threescore and five years shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people.

    but Jesus is sent by God ONLY to the LOST House of Israel, not even to the Jews [who are easier to find, but most still do not believe Jesus is THEIR Messiah, the Christ]

    Psalms 98:3 He hath remembered his mercy and his truth toward the house of Israel: all the ends of the earth have seen the salvation of our God.

    Psalms 115:12 The LORD hath been mindful of us: he will bless us; he will bless the house of Israel; he will bless the house of Aaron.

    Isaiah 46:3 Hearken unto me, O house of Jacob, and all the remnant of the house of Israel, which are borne by me from the belly, which are carried from the womb:

    Revelation 12:2 ... she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

    Isaiah 63:7 I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD, and the praises of the LORD, according to all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his lovingkindnesses.

    Jeremiah 3:18 In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers.

    Ezekiel 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

    --- now most of the Jews claim that the House of Israel merged with the Jews but God says they are scattered worldwide living as gentiles in gentile nations and serve other gods ... Jesus says he is sent to find them , not sent to find the Jews [which is far easier :-

    Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

    Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

    Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.[Messiah of Israel, the one anointed king of prophesied re- united Israel]

    Jeremiah 3:20 Surely as a wife treacherously departeth from her husband, so have ye dealt treacherously with me, O house of Israel, saith the LORD.

    Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
    32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
    34 ...for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    ---- this is the ONLY new covenant , repeated in Heb 8:8-12 ... the house of Israel was rejected, but now is accepted FOR GOD's SAKE not theirs, because of God's promises to descendants of Jacob ... prophecies in promises of God that God cannot let fail just because Israel rebelled , failed the old covenant ...

    Jeremiah 11:10 They are turned back to the iniquities of their forefathers, which refused to hear my words; and they went after other gods to serve them: the house of Israel and the house of Judah have broken my covenant which I made with their fathers.

    Jeremiah 18:6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.

    Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

    Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    Jeremiah 33:14 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.

    Jeremiah 33:17 For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;

    Ezekiel 5:4 Then take of them again, and cast them into the midst of the fire, and burn them in the fire; for thereof shall a fire come forth into all the house of Israel.

    Ezekiel 8:10 So I went in and saw; and behold every form of creeping things, and abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, pourtrayed upon the wall round about.

    Ezekiel 9:9 Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The LORD hath forsaken the earth, and the LORD seeth not.

    Ezekiel 11:5 And the Spirit of the LORD fell upon me, and said unto me, Speak; Thus saith the LORD; Thus have ye said, O house of Israel: for I know the things that come into your mind, every one of them.

    Ezekiel 12:10 Say thou unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; This burden concerneth the prince in Jerusalem, and all the house of Israel that are among them.

    Ezekiel 12:24 For there shall be no more any vain vision nor flattering divination within the house of Israel.

    Ezekiel 13:9 And mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD.

    Ezekiel 14:4 Therefore speak unto them, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet; I the LORD will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols;
    Ezekiel 14:5 That I may take the house of Israel in their own heart, because they are all estranged from me through their idols.
    Ezekiel 14:6 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations.
    Ezekiel 14:7 For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to a prophet to enquire of him concerning me; I the LORD will answer him by myself:

    Ezekiel 14:11 That the house of Israel may go no more astray from me, neither be polluted any more with all their transgressions; but that they may be my people, and I may be their God, saith the Lord GOD.

    Ezekiel 18:25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
    Ezekiel 18:30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

    Ezekiel 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

    Ezekiel 20:13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.

    --- this be a stubborn rebellious 'wife' ... but its femininity is rather irrelevant to the analogy

    Isaiah 54:3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.
    4 Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.
    5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
    6 For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.
    7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.
    8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.
    9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.
    10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.

    I would not say it was about gender ... sex is rather irrelevant , not a useful analogy I think... apart from the bond of love ... but that is real love of all , brotherly love, not sexual lust... and indeed it is the sort of love God expects between man and wife, but modern folks scarce understand that , so it is of little use as analogy in explanation.....
  2. x141

    x141 ...

    Yes, gender is just a picture, as jew and gentile are, the two sons. All things testify of Him who created all things to declare this glory of the invisble God. Call not what God has cleansed unclean ... to him that judge's it unclean then to him it is unclean. We are bound by the measure we mete.

    Isa_38:17 Behold, for peace I had great bitterness: but thou hast in love to my soul delivered it from the pit of corruption: for thou hast cast all my sins behind thy back.

    Isa 30:20-22 ...yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers: And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left. Ye shall defile also the covering of thy graven images of silver, and the ornament of thy molten images of gold: thou shalt cast them away as a menstruous cloth; thou shalt say unto it, Get thee hence.
  3. strangertoo

    strangertoo sin is diabolical abuse of fellow humans-1John 3:8

    Christian Seeker
    ... yes indeed a good picture ... the first sons of God , promised Israel because God had to name someone for sake of demo of prophecy ...

    chose the worst of men , rebellious , proud, intelligent from which to create meek humble broken loving saints ...

    just tens of thousands from over 12 billion men required as kings and priests , so needed first ...

    and they fail , need help at the last minute , else no-one would be saved... so the whole program is to wait a thousand years whilst they catch up on love, finally wholly accept to obey God without question... faith in love

    and ironically most of them have no idea they are not gentiles , truly believe they are gentiles... but the truth of their history is important to God , written in scripture [and has avoided many attempts to destroy, disguise, edit, mistranslate, re-interpret , etc]

    WHY? - because it is the very proof God offers of His power by love alone , not just to change Israel [and if them then He can clearly change anyone] , but to say what the END of all life is in the new earth, that all creation will accept Jesus, all will change to love and find out it makes us all happy , just vastly betetr than what men believe is their best option, follwoing sinners, now ... siners in politics, sinners creating money from nothing, sinners making evil laws against most men, sinners running mass religion of sinners, etc ,one sinner owning the world as inevitable mechanical consequence of capitalism... by deluding almost all men , causing almost all men to be unloving ... to disobey God and thus never know Him... to not love and find out what it is to have life abundantly ... not yet ... but God says later all will , all men will change once the truth penetrates that we have been lied to, we have been deceived and subtly so... that our perception of this world is a fake , it will never deliver the promises of the evil , it will be utterly destroyed with the heavens... for lack of love , only for lack of love...

    and then the salvation of the many [Rev 7:9-10] , predominantly gentiles, in the kingdom come ... the 'second son' in your analogy, sinners to death in this world, believing mass religion of sinners all their lives, stored in death until the kingdom is ready to do teh work of saving them from their beliefs, getting them to at last TRY loving one another to see how much better a way of life that is ...

    but there is a 'third son' , those who undergo the final baptism of fire , freed from sin a second time in death and resurrection because they sin in the new earth despite spirit baptism of all flesh [Joel 2:28] to know all truth of God [John 16:13] and the future...

    God cannot claim to be the god of all, the God of love of all, if He were not to save these too from their beliefs that stop them loving, keep them doubting that love works... we have the prodigal son , Satan, amongst them too , crated being, and Jesus confirms all creatures will accept him eventually :-

    Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

    Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

    so there are three main time phases, stages separate in time , in God's salvation by perfecting love in three baptisms then translation to spirit...

    so you would need a third 'son' in your analogy , the most evil of men , including Satan , not all gentiles because we know the final 'antichristos' of this earth [the one IN PLACE OF CHRIST , Vicarius Filii Dei] will rule ALL religion of all men except perhaps two thousand saints many of which he will have beheaded [Sharia law ?], we know he MUST be a JEW of the tribe of Judah to be accepted as the long-awaited Messiah of the Jews...
    we also know all Israel will be saved :-

    Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob

    well one can go on proving these things many separate ways in scripture , but surely the greatest proof of all is simply love itself , once one knows love...

    1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

    1 John 4:16 .... he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

    one cannot then expect sinners to know God, so they are indeed easy prey for Satan to hold them all their lives with subtle deceptions of the world, religion, their perception of life without love, their lusts, etc...

    but I'm thinking that you need to extend your analogy to three 'sons' , three major periods of mass salvation of mankind ...

    of course there are a few other men saved at least 25 I can think of at this moment in scripture, but whilst they are more than significant , they are very few indeed ...

    but one of them is the most central son of God ... whoops ... trying to count sons gets very hard rather quickly when one starts looking hard...

    Genesis 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

    Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

    Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

    John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
    Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

    Philippians 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

    1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
    2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

    ... we know God took Enoch to Himself as son of God , and one in every seventh generation , never to see death at all , long before manifestation of Jesus ...

    Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

    ... so perhaps it is a fruitless exercise counting sons ...

    would it help to know , surely the ultimate answer is countless billions ,but not all at the same time... that is more important to know because sinners teach sinners that God's mercy ends in this life, that if not saved at Jesus' return, those DESTROYED [Matt 7:13] , almost all men , are never released from hell [no matter Jesus says they are all released Rev 20:13 to the flesh Luke 24:39 and not just the first few [Matt 7:14] but countless many are saved later [Rev 7:9-10] despite all being destroyed in the end of this earth and heavens]

    but maybe the analogy is a first step at least to seeing through the lies which will deceive the whole earth -Rev 13:3-4 bar a couple of thousand saints [and even they would fail not to be deceived if Jesus did not return before their baptism fo fire, trial of faith in love, faith in God, is completed...
  4. x141

    x141 ...

    To me God can not deny himself. We still, due to the covering that is cast over all the people and over all the nations/thoughts still unknowingly for the most part turn God into an image like unto corruptible man.

    As long as the mentality of the earth remains there will be seed time and harvest. I see the book of Revelation as One Book and that Life the Life in us. As the Father granted the Son to have Life in himself, which is the Father so has he done in us.

    Just like the Father gave Jesus a kingdom he gives us a kingdom, each individual, a white stone, a new name, a throne, Life. In the same manner the Father sent the Son so the Son sends us. We are all of one and these merely pictures of Truth that the Spirit and the Bride with One voice say Come to.

    In reality as Jesus and James said All things come from the Father. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning and changes not. The whole earth is filled with his glory but this is not our perceptiion. Anything less than this Father, this One Glory Jesus spoke of returning to and where we are presently at is an image that provokes to jealousy, the jealousy a burning, that God might be the All in All (Truth finsihed before it began). This image is in the temple which we are, set in the holy place, our mind and it is the image of a beast/man/serpent/satan/dragon. Like the covering of the tabernacle of Moses both clean and unclean, Badger's skins and ram skins died the color of Adam (red in the face). The covering cast over all our thoughts.

    Enoch was both the seventh and the eighth from Adam, just like David, both the seventh and the eighth son of Jesse. Both Rest and New Beginnings, a first day of the week, Christ. Enoch is a picture of the two who were separated by a deep sleep becoming one again, the days of Enoch's separation for him had ended.

    To me the whole of the Bible is a book of within. This is where our relationship with God is, as Jesus said, the father never leaves me alone. From here, from beneath the throne is where the river flows from but this time when it comes out of Eden into the Garden/woman it comes out as One river and this Life.

    Our Life is hid in christ even as he is hid in his Father, this secret place of the most high. A work finished before the foundation of the earth, regardless of what my natural senses tell me, my teachers are not hid in a corner any longer and has become a word that is cast behind me, a menstrous cloth cast from me.

    Everyday the heavens open to me, within me. Eveyday he causes me to drink. For me the manna has ceased, I eat of the fruit of the land, that which grows of itself. I no longer labor, this to me is marvelous in my eyes.

    I see by your writings that you still try to use your soul to percieve what knowledge can not find. You have not agreed with your enemy, as Jesus did, in the wilderness/pentecost. As for me my waters are stilled and here is where he leads us into all Truth, this all in all. The place of seeing rather than the hearing of the ear, but still yet it's the Spirit and the Bride say come.

    Nebuchadnezzar lead into captivity therefore he went into captivity, a beast of the field until the days of his separation were ended, here his thoughts/kingdom like Jobs children are restored.

    Concering the third son ... I see in feasts Jesus was sent forth crucified from the foundation of the earth, the feast of pentecost begins, a dualitiy/the feast of pentecost is a salvation yet with sin, this yet is of the beast which equates to the holy place in Mose's tabernacle or the contents of Noah's ark, a wandering in the wilderness, both clean and unclean. Throughout this feast the three feasts over and over play out, interwoven togehter in a complex union, no beginning, no end, without measure. To put your finger on it and say this is God becomes a city we build and name. Here the word becomes a reed like unto a rod and as well fastened nails

    Tabernacles is Christ just as he is Jubilee, but yet it is God, the Father who is in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, taking captivity captive, a bringing again of our captivity to the place that was before it began, when God spoke, before the word was sent forth. These feasts happen in us even as they happened to Christ even as they happened to the Father. We also are snared by the words that come out of our mouth.

    The Father is the sum of all the feasts, they are all summed up in this One that was before the world was. The third heaven is the third feasts, tabernacles, who Jesus was an image of, the image of this invisible God. Jesus knew it was not complete until he returned from where he came from, a place where he is glorifed with the Father's self, He will also glorfy him with Himself.

    The Father's commandments and the Father's doctrine are life. He, His Commandments, His Doctrine are One and not divided. It is our perception that causes our captivity, a carrying away into babylon, right in the confines of our own head. It was the woman that you gave me, she gave to me and I did eat.
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2012
  5. strangertoo

    strangertoo sin is diabolical abuse of fellow humans-1John 3:8

    Christian Seeker
    ... the woman is Jerusalem, as scripture says 'a harlot' seducing the kings of the earth , but I agree with you it is but a story/dream/illusion , because that is the only way to talk about the spirit in our language tied to the earth ...

    Matthew 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

    we can scarce talk about the spirit having no experience of it until we love in life, stop sinning

    1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

    1 John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

    1 John 4:12 If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

    sin then is the representation of separation , for sin is unlovingness that prevents God within ...

    but what are we saying here in reality, for the spirit cannot leave God really, has no need to return... it is just a way of speaking in words of this world that are inadequate ...

    what we are saying then is that it is perception of sin which creates illusion of separation... the spirit of no man ever leaves God, the spirit creates the illusion of the man, the sin, the separation, the dividedness in place of oneness of love... but as you say, it cannot be real to God, no creation [which necessarily ends as it began] can be real to endlessness , it is then virtual, like a dream, unreal, an illusion ... all creations endlessly created are none of them the reality of God the creator, cannot be

    so we cannot see god when BELIEVING we are bound to the earth , life, consciousness, space, time , etc

    so by sin we affirm bondage to illusion, but by love we find what is beyond life ... this is just what Jesus said , we cannot enter the kingdom without spirit baptism, God within us showing all truth [John 16:13] and the future ,until our love is perfected in life ...

    then it is as if we are CHANGED , translated to spirit, but all that 'happens' is that we change from belief in the world to belief in the spirit

    1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed... etc

    we have then no need to die if we can deny sin and freely choose to love in the illusion ... some, as Enoch, escape the illusion without need of dying and resurrection to prove death is not the end of anything but sin :-

    Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

    thus the illusory distinction between men is simply what they believe for sake of creation ...

    nothing can not be of God, spirit , creations all unreal of necessity , gaining appearance of reality , of self, of perception, of thought of time, of matter, of space, of universes, only because the spirit 'creates' illusions that begin and end , does so endlessly ...

    we can scarce know the spirit then until we have loved perfectly the creation so that we can love the creator, and all it says , the TRUTH is, simply that the creator is WHOLE, indivisible , completely alien to creations... but the reality is the creator, not the creation , although when bound to the creation it has illusion of reality , of individuals, of sentience, of time,of consciousness, etc...

    so we have no adequate words, because one cannot even understand what love is whilst believing one is separate ...

    Mark 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

    Mark 10:26 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
    27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
  6. x141

    x141 ...

    I see that our soul our woman (for he has made the two one again the were separated at the beginning even as the Father was separated from the son), is the immoral woman. I see this in the book of Job among others, of this turning, as John, as Encoh, as Isaiah etc. Satan was Job's son of perdition that seemingly turns God against him. You can eat of any tree of the garden except your own. We can enter into others labors even as we enter into Jesus' labors but this entering in is into the Kingdom that is within. To me, presently this is eating freely of any tree of the garden. The womans perception seeded by that which is without the garden brought about the law of sin and death. Job never gets a new wife just new children. Our thoughts in picture are both masculine and femine. Job's new children total ten but this is the law of Life. His daughters being three (masculine symbolic of the Rest) recieve an inheritance amongst the sons. His wife becomes becomes the heavenly Jerusalem when the harlot is left desolate of all her children and goods. Here is where the turning happens. To me Job's friends are the three main feasts. But the feasts that God's soul abor's. These are the "In the day that you eat of it, it must be on the Lord's day, or the one who comes in his Father's name. Elihu's wrath, the wrath of the Lamb which wrath leads to the turning to Father causing Job to see. THis all from loosing your soul/thoughts, becoming desolate. Jesus is found speaking to the harlot in this fashion. He would have gathered all her children but she would not. Just like the pharisees, they don't enter in and don't suffer any one else to enter in either. Not that they don't want to, but the harlot won't allow them to due to her covering. Her covering dictates that God is both good and evil and so the fruit of her womb, her children are the same, a duality. The new woman/earth has no seas. When the manifestation happens we won't know it because it will be as if we have always been. Like Jesus, before Abraham was I am. A Son of the Father. Every son returns to the Father that has a Jerusalem who has children, righteous children. Again all pictures of Truth that knowledge can not find, she has no light of her self, the seed is the Life of the woman.

    I am really enjoying this.

    Yes it is a dream and Jesus came to wake us out of sleep. It's funny, when he opens the door in someone and I speak this call of the bridegroom you can see there mind going tilt as I begin to have fellowship with the Father and the Son even with some who have never darkened the door step of a church (I speak church as a man). There soul begins to fall asleep, a great rest comes upon both them and me and to us both the heavens open within each of us and we eat of a table prepared before the foundation of the earth. All our foosteps are ordered, laid out before the world was. It is the righeous man (new children) that percieve's that this is so for God opens our eye's to the well of Life in the wilderness and our Son lives.

    Both Isaac and Ishmael take a wife from their captivity. Here the masculine and the femine are portrayed again.

    He calls all his sons out of Eygpt, out of babylon. In her is found the blood of all who were ever slain on the earth, and all these summed up in Christ.

    Gen_20:12 And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.

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    I see all these (but of a few in scripture) as speaking of the same thing, mind/bride/soul of Christ who is of the Father, they are all of one. Soul of the Father. " And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife ...." What makes it the perception of three is the sending forth, a point in time, and a returning, the three feasts. the point in time is the building of a city and naming it/a carrying away into babylon. For it was for the Father so it is with his son and his sons sons, to the third and fourth generation, a filling of the earth, all who come after and every thought. One mountain and her names is mount zion. All this a shadow/image of what the Spirit and the Bride say Come to. This always was, Father.

    2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

    2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

    1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

    Php 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

    Joh 3:29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

    Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

    Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

    Heb 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

    Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

    Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
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    This is the path of Enoch, to become not, this was the way that Jesus came to show, he is this way, this truth this life. In a little while you see me no more, in that day will you know I am in the Father and you are in me and I am in you.
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    Everything points to a way back, to where it came from, for not tobe unclothed but clothed upon. When the one is two it is an unclothing, a nakedness. To be one is to be clothed upon. All thinigs testifies of him. This way this Life is within. Naked we came out maked we return. Oh but the harlot, the immoral woman turns even this (in us) into the image of a corruptible man. The woman with three measures of meal and the hiding of the leaven, this son of perdition. it is the act of hiding it, this image and the fall of Truth that is the key that opens the bottomless pit.

    We each have the one in us who is the author and finisher of all things, he leads us into himself as he lead Jesus.
  10. strangertoo

    strangertoo sin is diabolical abuse of fellow humans-1John 3:8

    Christian Seeker
    ... the creation is created ... it begins and it ends ... endlessness is the creator , no beginning ,no ending

    endlessness endlessly creates that which ends...

    what we think we see with our eyes is one creation , not the endlessness which created

    but the endlessness can communicate it's undividedness , 'one-ness', wholeness , to the created [or not] ...

    this then is love of God, to know the lack of division of the creator

    but of THIS creation the RULE is that all will know God by choice

    thus we see God persuading men that love is a better way to live than hurtful sin
    that long-term happiness and knowing the creator is far more valuable than short-term pleasures and the longer-term misery they bring inexorably

    that is seen as the will of God , but it is more than that, it is the rule of this creation

    ... conceptions race
    in quiet time
    and truth comes out
    in flowing rhyme
    the muse is good
    the truth sublime
    but few live yet who tow the line
    our world become one mighty crime
    though always some
    have seen the sign
    writ in all hearts
    for all to see
    our insight to
    our destiny ...

    so men can gain comfort , rest from conflict within, in noticing the love that survives in this world , for that is the truly remarkable thing about it

    evil has been given complete power to tempt all mankind and completely dominates the whole earth , but for what ? ... love continues in a few souls, but for what , why?

    Evil is only 'evil' because it destroys ...

    we watch , helpless to stop it , but it is destroying our world on which it thinks it relies , watch, it destroys itself ...

    and in the process it has tried the love of a handful of saints and they overcame temptation to think short-term pleasures which bring misery long-term...

    they overcame this world , most died because this world hates to be proven wrong, but it is wrong, but only MOSTLY , not completely...

    love hangs on even in weak flesh , love is stronger then than a whole world of evil because it is good for all long-term , some see that already...
    we might say man is evolving spiritually ...

    men grasp at sick religion, sick politics, sickness of many as they hide inthe crowd but it is sick too , it's just instinct to hide in a herd ...

    but only the few who love are right about the future , right about what is 'beyond' futuer, beyond time, that created time, is time-less , beyond space-time, not in space or time but makes them...

    endlessness from which we KNOW al that begins and ends comes...

    but most astoundingly endlessness chooses to communicate with this one of its endless creations ...

    says THIS creation will KNOW it , through love , so to be one with it because endlessness has no division, is one-ness, which is what is the real meaning of 'love'

    so life is really 'nothing much' , just a proof of what we KNOW ... that evil will persuade most men to be unloving and so miserable inside because they have not done what we all will do one day IN TIME ,IN SPACE

    but we destroy our earth so quickly that we need another before we can all learn to do what we all want to do, be happy, and the only way is to love one another, be one ...

    so we need another viable earth , no problem for endlessness because all it 'does' is create endlessly ...but to most of us that is not inour programming FROM MEN , only in our programming from endlessness , our heart, spirit, conscience, and somewhere in our mind beneath all the lies of the world...

    2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

    why did Peter, Isaiah, Jesus all write about the new earth and new heavens, new space-time universe ... recreation of time , new earth for all men, all raised from death all freed from 'hell' [Rev 20:13] unlike what most men say and believe [inconsistently] ...

    but love is even more than the eventual peaceful life of all in the new earth bought by the few who love now

    love is to be one with endlessness, beyond life , to seemingly change from seeing oneself as a human being - to being spirit , able to manifest in endless creations by simple belief , because to endlessness that which ends is like an illusion, a dream, a virtual reality .. what is endless is reality then , not its 'dreams' , its creations ...

    so what we are we KNOW by our love, not by our eyes ...

    For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth:
    and the former shall not be remembered,
    nor come into mind.
    -Isaiah 65:17

    But as it is written,
    Eye hath not seen,
    nor ear heard,
    neither have entered into the heart of man,
    the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
    1 Corinthians 2:9

    all will accept love, accept Jesus, accept God in the end
    but for now just few [Matt 7:13-14] and the rest sleep in death, destroyed,
    but for their spirit from God
    indestructible as God

    Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

    Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

    Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

    Jesus led the way of love KNOWING how few would follow now - Rev 7:3-8

    KNOWING how many would follow by judgement day in the new earth - Rev 7:9-10
    despite that almost all are destroyed for sin in THIS earth when this earth and heavens have finshed their task, Satan has tempted and seduced almost all men on this earth and would have tempted them all, save Jesus ...

    but Jesus comes back early so the few are saved now ... since a few are required to craete the kingdom come, to rule and minister in the new earth when the many are resurrected, all are freed from death and hell toward the saving of countless many from temptation into love , rest from inner conflict, peace of the comforter , in the new earth, new heavens, new universe...

    but Jesus also says ALL will accept his power of love eventually

    the power of love is ENDURING mercy when any accepts the Truth of love, one-ness of the creator reflected in the creations because that is the RULE of the endless creator for this creation... 'special ' because it looks DUAL ... two earths with their heavens , two universes , one ends in almost complete darkness, one ends in complete light ... and 'then' the third heaven with no earth, freedom of the spirit , not individuals divided, but ONE spirit which we knew in our blindness as love...

    1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

    1 John 4:16 ...he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
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    To me all things are present. He is revealed in the moment. This revealing within. To make it without, subject to time, to me is corruption, and it becomes like an image of a man.

    Satan to me is a beast, the man of sin, son of perdition, the man who tills the field, the man who weakens the nations/thoughts. The one who makes the world a wilderness, a wandering, a tossing to and fro, where our shame foams out, and this out of our mouth.

    The commandments of God and the doctrine of God are Life, nothing less than His person. Anything less than one is not Truth and is a lie. Jesus said that came before him were liars, that he was the Truth, I am. The guy who calmed the waters with a word is the same guy who used the toilet paper to wipe his bum. This image he took to the cross, he became the serpent on the cross, the man of sin, who recieved a head wound, like Goliath, yet lived. This seed bruises our heel and smites the image of confusion at it's feet, our walk.
  12. strangertoo

    strangertoo sin is diabolical abuse of fellow humans-1John 3:8

    Christian Seeker
    ... but the final antichrist is a sign to watch for, looks like Christ returned , does miracles, unites religion in worship of a [fake] god... continues the pagan days of modern religion in place of the memorials of God ... MUST come first ...

    ... as for what is within, only the inspiration/vision is of the spirit and one may see that as within but the man is only illusion, the self is only illusion, the individual is only illusion.. God is not in the whole of what we see but creator of the seeing ... so to see within is just as much illusion as to see without because self imagines it is self which sees... but self itself is a mask, an illusion over the truth of being...

    to live in the now is to acknowledge time rather than create time as illusion...

    but it makes no odds, all will see beyond seeing eventually , it's just a creation, it ends...
  13. strangertoo

    strangertoo sin is diabolical abuse of fellow humans-1John 3:8

    Christian Seeker
    God as a person? ... illusion too , part of creation ... what is required to see through it is to become whole in the illusion through love chosen freely because all the deceptions of the world fail, within the illusion ... then one can get on with finding out that loving all makes one happy in life but also allows visions of what is beyond life , spirit... so one can be in-the-spirit ...

    Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward,
    that I will pour out my spirit upon
    all flesh;
    and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
    your old men shall dream dreams,
    your young men shall see visions:

    Luke 3:6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

    to love is only to become integral, to stop denying spirit, mind, heart, conscience ... but then there is more once one stops lying to oneself deluding, suffering illusion of flesh, thinking one is creation ,not creator ... so one ceases to be individual, becomes one ... there is but one spirit, and it matters not in the end if it seem evil or good except that it takes longer to become one if one is evil... but what matters time... life, pain, death, consciousness, all transient, all craeted, all 'illusion' then by means of demonstrably false belief... but in the end it makes no difference, God is the same , time-less, to suffer time is illusion , we end , as one spirit which creates endlessly , no other 'place' to be, nowhere to go, no way to go, never 'left' ....
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2012
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    I see evil and good as both part of this illusion/dream/sleep as well. It is a perception, heaven and earth, good and evil, light and darkness, two sons. If you agape your enemy he is no longer your enemy, so where does sin appear. Over all this is judgment, one that is true and one that is a lie. The spirit of the Father leads us back to the same, as you said, "never left."

    All Path's born out of heaven lead to heaven.
  15. strangertoo

    strangertoo sin is diabolical abuse of fellow humans-1John 3:8

    Christian Seeker
    Yes, sin is unlovingness , which despite short-term brief pleasures leads one inexorably to misery which leads on to try love which leads one to happiness , which leads one to believe in love which leads to God within, which leads one to know one never left God except in belief that one was not God [but of course some believe they are God who still believe in sin, and that must lead to misery to lead back to the truth ...

    so the whole creation is only about getting the creation to love, to believe that its root is the creator , the endlessness , not the creation which ends... quite something for the creation to be enabled to know the creator as creation... to become like the creator through love, undivided, whole... yet completely different because the creation has time, ends after a [finite] time...

    Lamentations 3:38 Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?

    Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2012