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To start, it could be chastening or a trial of faith. If we weren't going to experience 'some' sickness God wouldn't have promised to heal us. There would be no need for the healing promises in the Bible.I have to simply ask then - why do Christians get sick?
Also, healing services in church buildings is not supported by Scripture. Most miracles of healing happened in the streets or people's homes.
Okay. Paul is usually quite clear in what he says. He does not specify his thorn in the flesh as being some kind of sickness. He called it a messenger from Satan. As I have said before, it is much more likely to be the persecutions that he has had to bear for the Gospel. This is consistent with what he has stated about the persecutions and trials he has had to go through in declaring the Gospel wherever he went.
But there is absolutely no connection with any type of sickness. To say that he had some type of eye condition is a pure speculation bordering on absolute nonsense.
How's that?
Can you justify biblically equating persecution as a messenger of Satan?
Actually, church buildings are not supported by scripture.
peace,
Simon
To start, it could be chastening or a trial of faith. If we weren't going to experience 'some' sickness God wouldn't have promised to heal us. There would be no need for the healing promises in the Bible.
Why couldn't sickness be chastening or trial of faith? Job was sick as a trial of his faith. Deut 28 shows that sickness can indeed be chastening. Do you ever get sick?Nowhere does Jesus say that. The only place where He even mentioned why a condition existed was in the case of the man born blind, and that was a disability and not a sickness. He said that it was for the glory of God in the healing of it, and He demonstrated that by restoring the guy's sight to him.
How could a sickness by a chastening or a trial of faith, when Jesus took our sicknesses in His body on the cross and by His stripes we have already been healed (1Peter 2:24).
Deuteronomy 28:58-61 (NASB)Sickness is not a chastening or a trial of our faith, because God is not the one who brings sickness on people, He heals people. Sickness comes from the devil, and God does not use the devil to do His work. Jesus Christ is the author and finisher of our faith, not the devil.
That too.The reason why people in our churches are sick and not healed is because of the unbelief of Christians and their church leaders. It is our fault, not God's fault, that people are not healed, because in most cases, we have neither the Scriptural knowledge or the faith to effectively minister healing to those who are sick.
Why couldn't sickness be chastening or trial of faith? Job was sick as a trial of his faith. Deut 28 shows that sickness can indeed be chastening. Do you ever get sick?
Deuteronomy 28:58-61 (NASB)
58 "If you are not careful to observe all the words of this law which are written in this book, to fear this honored and awesome name, the LORD your God, 59 then the LORD will bring extraordinary plagues on you and your descendants, even severe and lasting plagues, and miserable and chronic sicknesses. 60 "He will bring back on you all the diseases of Egypt of which you were afraid, and they will cling to you. 61 "Also every sickness and every plague which, not written in the book of this law, the LORD will bring on you until you are destroyed.The important thing to consider when you are applying Scripture, is to consider who is the intended audience. Moses was writing to Old Covenant Jews who were under the Law. It was not written to New Covenant Christians who are born again, new creatures in Christ.
You see, the Bible was written for us, but not always to us.
You are misquoting the Scripture and applying things that Moses taught to people he never intended to apply it to.
Job did not see his sickness and misfortune as a trial of his faith. There is no mention in all the book that Job actually exercised faith in his situation. Faith is always based on the Word of God. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God. There is no mention anywhere that God gave Job His Word until right at the end when He was about to restore Job to health and to restore all the other things.
God cannot put upon anyone the diseases that existed in Egypt, because Jesus was whipped, fulfilling Isaiah's prophecy that by His stripes we are healed. Jesus quoted Isaiah in context with His supernatural healing ministry. Peter quotes it in the past tense to show that now that the Atonement has been made, healing is an accomplished fact for all New Covenant Christians. All we have to do is to believe it.
I think that you need to do some serious Bible study to find out the difference between the Old and New Covenants.
If you are still living according to what Moses taught in Deuteronomy, then maybe you are still in the Old Covenant where you are expected to keep the whole Law without one infraction. If this is so, you may not be born again. You may still be at the stage of being a believer in the same way that unconverted Jews were believers during the time that Jesus was on earth before His death and resurrection. You might be like Apollos who only had the baptism of John, and you might need a genuine born again, New Covenant Christian to explain the Way more perfectly to you.
Yes. From Paul's own testimony of what he went through as he preached the Gospel in different places. Also, use your own common sense:
Does persecution come from God?
If it doesn't come from God, and it is there to stop a person exercising their faith and preaching the Gospel, then give three guesses where it comes from?
or...they aren't healed because they just aren't healed yet.
Chronic illness for attention? lame.
"To say that Paul had a sickness or an infirmity is nonsense, because the Scripture does not make that clear at all.
Really??
Gal13:
13 Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.
14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.
15 Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.
OBVIOUS CONCLUSIONS
- Paul got sick in Galatia, and it apparently had something to do with, or in some way affected he eyes. He apparently "Got better" eventually, and it's NOT known whether the infirmity was "Chronic" or not.
"Paul's thorn in the flesh could have been anything."
True - but who was talking about any "Thorn in the flesh??? Not me for sure. The Bible seems to indicate a "Spiritual buffeting" was his "Thorn issue", not any "Physical affliction".
But to say there's no biblical evidence that Paul "Got sick" is disingenuous. And it's also a matter of Biblical record that Paul LEFT TROPHIMUS SICK - 2 Tim 4: SO apparently Paul DIDN'T minister healing to him, or it didn't "take".
20 Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.
Case closed.
You stated: "Sickness comes from the devil, and God does not use the devil to do His work."You are misquoting the Scripture and applying things that Moses taught to people he never intended to apply it to.
Are you implying that Job didn't have faith? He did indeed have great faith.Job did not see his sickness and misfortune as a trial of his faith. There is no mention in all the book that Job actually exercised faith in his situation. Faith is always based on the Word of God. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God. There is no mention anywhere that God gave Job His Word until right at the end when He was about to restore Job to health and to restore all the other things.
And so I ask again, do you ever get sick?God cannot put upon anyone the diseases that existed in Egypt, because Jesus was whipped, fulfilling Isaiah's prophecy that by His stripes we are healed. Jesus quoted Isaiah in context with His supernatural healing ministry. Peter quotes it in the past tense to show that now that the Atonement has been made, healing is an accomplished fact for all New Covenant Christians. All we have to do is to believe it.
I didn't imply any such thing. I am not under the Law.I think that you need to do some serious Bible study to find out the difference between the Old and New Covenants.
If you are still living according to what Moses taught in Deuteronomy, then maybe you are still in the Old Covenant where you are expected to keep the whole Law without one infraction. If this is so, you may not be born again. You may still be at the stage of being a believer in the same way that unconverted Jews were believers during the time that Jesus was on earth before His death and resurrection. You might be like Apollos who only had the baptism of John, and you might need a genuine born again, New Covenant Christian to explain the Way more perfectly to you.
You stated: "Sickness comes from the devil, and God does not use the devil to do His work."
I stated: "61 Also every sickness and every plague which, not written in the book of this law, the LORD will bring on you until you are destroyed."
Are you implying that Job didn't have faith? He did indeed have great faith.
And so I ask again, do you ever get sick?
I didn't imply any such thing. I am not under the Law.
Galatians 5:18 (NASB)
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
Your refusal to answer the question is clear enough.
Still no answer. I'll try again, Do you ever get sick?Do you actually read the Bible sometimes?
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