when God says yes and man says no

[steve5]

Greetings brothers and sisters in Christ.
i am struggling at the moment. I have had a clear calling on my life for about 5 years now, and over that time the Lord has lead me through life's circumstances, in order to strengthen me for the fulfillment of that calling within the ministry.
Over the last year, the calling to the ministry has deepened and grown, to the point where I have felt compelled 'step out of the boat' and walk forward. On discussing this with my Minister, he advised me to attend a short conference held by the denomination for those who are enquiring into a mnistry. I attended, and with continued prayer, and leading from God I finally applied to enter the first step in the enquiry/discernment process of the denomination. It was not a step i took lightly, and did not move forward until I was absolutely confident, that God wanted me to do it.
The denomination have a rule that to be eligable for selection, or to proceed forward you must have been a member of that denomination for 3 years. However, that waive that rule in certain circumstances and ask you to appeal for the rule to be waived, in writing. I have not been a member of the denomination for 3 years (an impossibility as I relocated to where I live now, 2 years ago), so I appealed and submmitted a piece of writing in support of my application.
My Minister also supported my application in writing to the selection panel.
The outcome was that the panel titled 'Recruitment Task Group' refused to waive the rule and I was turned down as I had not been a member for 3 years. They have told me to reapply in two years time.
I am a mature christian, born again, and bible believeing. I can testify to God's prompting, leading which resulted in applying for Ministry in this denomination(which was as much of a surprise to me)!.
Now i feel disappointed, disheartened, and disillusioned. God has confirmed to me since this decision that I heared correctly from Him, and that I was obedient to Him in applying and responding to His call into the Ministry.
My questions are these:
Can there be times when God says yes, but man places a stumbling block in the way?
Can man made rules and regulations stifle and suffucate God's calling on someone's life, i.e legalism?
Where do I go from here?
It seems to me that in the Bible when God called, commisioned and sent, it was unbelivers who said no. My concern is that these men have placed membership of their denomination above identifying, equipping and helping someone with a true calling to serve and minister? and therefore not acting in accordance with scripture.

 

[Blaine01]

Brother I can relate to your situation as many years ago I was confronted with a similar situation. If you know in your heart that the Lord has called you and the denomination you are associated with is a stumbling block then there is a possibility that the Lord does not want you in that denomination. One of the issues Jesus had with the religious leadership was the rules that they burdened people with that had nothing to do with the will of God.

My recommendation would be first seek guidance from the Holy Spirit as to where He wants you. He may lead you into a Bible college that will then possibly lead you into a different denomination or possibly a non denominational church. How much opposition did our Lord receive from the Jewish religious leadership? Don’t let man become a stumbling block to Gods will for your life, many pastors, missionaries and lay people have fallen into that trap, and trust me Satan will do all he can to sway you away from Gods will for your life.

 

[batsarah]

Reapply in two years and plant something new in the meantime .......a fresh expression, a new work with young people or whatever.

 

[steve5]

thank you both for your replies.
can i ask you Blaine01, as you said you had a similair situation what was the outcome for you?

 

[Blaine01]

can i ask you Blaine01, as you said you had a similair situation what was the outcome for you?

Sure, I was raised SDA including their schools. For me it became doctrinal issues I couldn’t accept any longer. So for the past thirty five years I went the non denominational rout. The Lord has blessed me tremendously and well beyond anything I deserve. Even after all these years I struggle with the legalism of my original education.
My advice to anyone that has been called into a ministry for the Lord is to allow him to open the doors he wants opened and close the others. The Lord doesn’t care about denomination; he cares about your willingness to follow His leadership. Always remember any ministry you become involved in no matter how successful it may become it is never your ministry, it is the Lords.

 

[Catherineanne]

My questions are these:
Can there be times when God says yes, but man places a stumbling block in the way?

Only if God consents to that stumbling block. If God wants something now he gets it.

Can man made rules and regulations stifle and suffucate God's calling on someone's life, i.e legalism?

No. God's call does not go unanswered. If it is checked in one direction it will open in another. God's call is like a river; you can put a dam in its way, and that might slow things down a bit, but sooner or later it will find a way out.

Where do I go from here?

Treat the instructions you have been given as if they come from God himself. Submit to them, and obey them.

Ministry is not only about leading; it is also about being willing to accept God's will without whining, complaining or going off in a huff. I know you are not doing any of those things, but this is a testing time, and it is important. How you approach the coming two years will reveal how you will approach your ministry, when it comes.

It seems to me that in the Bible when God called, commisioned and sent, it was unbelivers who said no. My concern is that these men have placed membership of their denomination above identifying, equipping and helping someone with a true calling to serve and minister? and therefore not acting in accordance with scripture.

You have not been told no. You have been told not yet.

There is a difference.

God allows us to be told to wait when he knows that it will be for our spiritual benefit. If he really wanted you now, that would happen. Clearly, he wants you to learn something, and this is a time of teaching; it is up to you to work out what that lesson is, and learn it. Be grateful that they did not say no, and take the time to seek out what the lesson is that God has for you. Before we ever get to minister to others, we have to accept God ministering to us, and sometimes it is very painful indeed.

Remember, the 3 year rule is there to protect the congregation. It was put in place for a reason, and unless there is a very good reason to disregard it, they are right to keep to it. Respect the rule in the same way as you respect Nicene, and the ten commandments, and anything else from God. Perhaps instead of asking why you have not been seen as a special case, consider why you should be a special case; are you not a sinner like everyone else? Have you not been given great mercy and Grace already? Then why not wait 2 years in return; it is little enough to ask.

In other words, accept the authority of the church and don't rail against it. Otherwise, how can you expect anyone to accept your authority as a minister, when you get it? The two go together.

I wish you well.

 

[lovemygod316]

IMO, Catherineanne makes the most sense. I know you feel called to start NOW, but do you really think that the three year minimum as a member of the denomination is an unfair and arbitrary rule, meant to keep out well meaning potential ministers that just happen to be new to that church? If you really feel called to be a minister in that denomination now, then you should feel just as called in two years. And at that point you will be a respected member of the church and will know a lot more people there.

 

[steve5]

thank you for your replies, they have helped me to reflect a lot on the issues.
just in response to accepting the decisions of that church/denomination as authorative from God.
The same denomination has just voted in their General Assembly to recongnise ministers in same sex relationships. Something contrary to God's Will and Word, so
In short, I do not accept all/every decision made within the denoimination as being from God. As we see in Acts, the Bereans even discerned the teachings of Paul the Apostle. It is clear that people in roles and positions of authority, and decision making within that denomination are not aligned with God's word, as were the Saducees and Pharisees of Jesus' day.
In answer to being seen as a special case, the denomination invite people to submit a supporting application if they have not been a member for 3 years, which is what I done. I did not spontaneouly submit a document stating why I should be considered for ministry now, ie making myself a special case.
You can be in a same sex relationship and recongnised and practice as a minister. You can have a genuine call and comission on your life from God and be told that as youv'e not been a member for 3 years, no thanks. Biblical & Just?? I dont think so.

 

[Blaine01]

If you are involved in any church or denomination that will ordain a homosexual then I would strongly recommend seeking a good bible teaching church that lives by Gods ordnances and laws.

If you seek the Holy Spirits guidance He will lead you where He wants you. What I have found is that His leading will be confirmed through scripture, and through others. Just be completely open to Gods will for your life and you will do fine.

God Bless your desire to serve Him.

 

[actionsub]

If you are involved in any church or denomination that will ordain a homosexual then I would strongly recommend seeking a good bible teaching church that lives by Gods ordnances and laws.

If you seek the Holy Spirits guidance He will lead you where He wants you. What I have found is that His leading will be confirmed through scripture, and through others. Just be completely open to Gods will for your life and you will do fine.

God Bless your desire to serve Him.

My problem comes from the other side, I am divorced and remarried and the "good Bible-teaching" churches won't touch me with a pole.
It's the liberal denominations that are willing to take me on.

 

[Catherineanne]

thank you for your replies, they have helped me to reflect a lot on the issues.
just in response to accepting the decisions of that church/denomination as authorative from God.
The same denomination has just voted in their General Assembly to recongnise ministers in same sex relationships. Something contrary to God's Will and Word, so
In short, I do not accept all/every decision made within the denoimination as being from God. As we see in Acts, the Bereans even discerned the teachings of Paul the Apostle. It is clear that people in roles and positions of authority, and decision making within that denomination are not aligned with God's word, as were the Saducees and Pharisees of Jesus' day.
In answer to being seen as a special case, the denomination invite people to submit a supporting application if they have not been a member for 3 years, which is what I done. I did not spontaneouly submit a document stating why I should be considered for ministry now, ie making myself a special case.
You can be in a same sex relationship and recongnised and practice as a minister. You can have a genuine call and comission on your life from God and be told that as youv'e not been a member for 3 years, no thanks. Biblical & Just?? I dont think so.

Imo, you are certainly not ready for ministry. You are full of entitlement and verging on self righteous, and that is the last thing that anyone needs in a minister, imo.

Being a minister does not involve standing in judgement of your church and complaining about it as you are doing. I have to say, it is increasingly clear that the decision was the right one.

By all means find a church more suited to you, if you can. But the chances are they will still want you to be a member for several years before accepting you as a minister. And rightly so.

Good luck with that.

 

[Blaine01]

There is a big difference between liberal ideology (theology) and teaching contrary to Gods laws. Divorce and remarriage to me is like any other sin, if you have repented and turned away from that sin, then the word says you are forgiven and your sins are remembered no more.
Paul was writing to the Romans in Timothy. Polygamy was widely practiced and I have often wondered if what he was really saying is that church leaders shouldn’t be involved in polygamy.
Here again it would depend on the reason for the divorce, did the wife file for divorce and the husband disagreed, then the husband has no fault in the divorce and I don’t think that should apply. However if the husband committed adultery and the wife divorced him then I would say he has a problem.
Some denominations take it case by case. If you know the Holy Spirit is calling you into ministry then God will open the doors for you when the time is right. Don’t try to force it, or step out ahead of Him.
Talk to some of the non denominational churches and most of all seek the Holy Spirits guidance in all that you do.

 

[steve5]

thank you catherineanne for those very gracious and helpful words, which are in no way judgemetal or non-gracious of me or the situation I find myself in.
Thankfully, as you so often state (IMO), it is only your opinion.
As far as 'standing in judgement of my church and complaining', I was expressing a very valid point that the direction at the top of the hierachy in the denomination is steering it in a non-biblical way. Unless of course you believe same sex relationships are ok for Ministers of the Gospel? Therefore, stating an objection is completely justified. Self-Righteous, defintely not. Perhaps if more ministers got off the Liberal fence the Church would be in a healthier state?
I have only scraped the surface of explaining the whole situation and context of my discerning the call into ministry, the countless opposition, and at times unbearable testing and trials which God has and is bringing me through.
Finally, I had no objections to becoming a member and was putting this in motion, with the assistance of my Minister who knows me and supported my application.

 

[episkopos]

I do not think there's anything wrong with waiting a while to hold a ministerial office. What I do believe is that God sometimes gives specific instructions to a group of people- "The giving of the law".
"Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the GIVING OF THE LAW, and the service of God, and the promises." Rom 9:4

Every single one of the people who received the anointing in the upper room had followed the Lord faithfully for several years. In choosing a replacement of Judas Iscariot, the apostles specified that it had to be someone who had been around for a long time.

Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us -- beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us -- one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection. So they put forward two men...
Acts 1:21-23, NASB

- Steps to the anointing

So that these doctrines are or at least should be based on scripture, making them sound. This is why denominations and churches we belong to are crucial to our being in the will of God. So unless your ministry is meant to start elsewhere I believe the set custom is direction as to when to start which is essential in itself. So do not question your call especially understanding firstly that concerning ministry, there will always be times when you'll question your call; yours happens to be antecedent to your "ministry"

Secondly, that many are called. "For many are called, but few are chosen." Matt 22:14
One of the reasons why God calls so many people is because He needs a lot of work done. If the many He has called however decided to function only after assuming special positions then there'd be no point in His calling many. So as batsarah said get involved with something. It is God who gives the grace to be fruitful(in fact He's already told you the harvest is plentiful) in His work and you will be fruitful in Jesus Name. None of this is meant to belittle the office of being a pastor or minister; however a sign of true pastor is one who wants his church to do just he does, persuing the vision of the church and to become like him.
Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. 1 Cor 11:1
My strongest emphasis would be to ask the Holy Spirit for guidance, that is pray more about it.
I'd strongly recommend you reading Many are called

 

[Hediru]

Wow. I can relate to your situation for sure. Church politics are really worse than governmental politics at times. I won't hijack your thread talking about my issues with my denomination, but I will say that a very important person high up the food chain (who barely even knows me, really) told me "You will be a detriment to any congregation that has you as a pastor."

What transpired after that was a series of long, painful prayer before God. And what I learned was that yes, God has called me into ministry. But being called into ministry does not mean being a pastor. There are many different kinds of ministry that require many different specific gifts and skills. For me, I realized that I am not called to preach every Sunday. However, I am uniquely gifted to work with children. So I am a Christian Educator/Children's Minister. I will admit that it is not an easy calling, and in many ways, it is more difficult than being a pastor, mainly because the majority of congregations cannot afford a paid CE person. And when you find a church that can, when they have to make budget cuts, the first staff person to get bumped is the CE person. I admit that I have complained to God about this a lot. "Lord, I'm willing to follow you, just give me a salary I can live on!" But, I trust that God is in control and knows what he's up to. It would just be nice to be let in on some of his plans every once in awhile.

Sorry. Didn't mean to go down that road. But the point is, being called into ministry does not necessarily mean pastoral ministry. Also, I hate to admit it, but denominational candidacy processes do serve a purpose and there's a reason those structures are in place. Trying to get around ordination requirements hardly ever works out from what I've seen and heard (and I'm a seminary student, so I know a lot of people in a lot of different processes!).

My advice to you is this. Depend on God. Lean on Him more now than you ever have before. God will show you the way. Perhaps you are called into pastoral ministry but now is not the right time. Perhaps you're trying the wrong denomination. Or perhaps you're not supposed to be a pastor. That's between you and God. Believe me, when I heard the call, I thought it was going to be easy. Boy was I wrong! God is never easy on the people he uses. Just look in the Bible! You want to be used by God? Hang on, it's going to be a bumpy ride!

 

[kocarkacirx]

Reapply in two years and plant something new in the meantime .......a fresh expression, a new work with young people or whatever.

 

[Denied]

I had a burning in my bones for what we label, full time ministry as well. 27 years with this perpetual hunger. I tried everything to get into 'pastoring'. God said no. My music ministry from church to church. God said no. After 19 years of waiting, He allowed me to go out as an evangelist 2 years in a row at my vacation times. The power of God and His anointing blessed the revivals. Then what I expected to be true was clearly brought out in the open.
The 'pastors' where I ministered became jealous and wouldn't invite me back.
So God told me I was done until further notice. You see He was revealing to me the falsehood of the clerical/laity construct. No one is to be elevated above anyone else. This is soundly condemned by Christ.
It was a hard pill to swallow, but I stayed at my job, forgetting about any so-called 'full time ministry'.
So I studied and continued to follow Jesus into clear understanding. Read my posts in the thread titled 'the pastor...where did he come from?' In the Apologetics section for further study.