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When God ceases to offer salvation

Discussion in 'Requests for Christian Advice' started by RobertZ, Mar 13, 2010.

  1. nyjujubeez

    nyjujubeez Newbie

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    Several conclusions can be drawn from these warnings.
    • First, God actively punishes unconfessed sin not only after the sinner's death, but also during that person's life.
    • Also, moral degradation is a punishment of God upon willful spiritual ignorance.
    • Further, when God gives one over to a depraved mind, that person's sensitivity to sin is deadened and his chances for repentance thereby lessened.
    • Yet, God does not violate man's freedom, forcing man to sin and then judging him for it. Rather, men in this state welcome more extreme degradation and actively embrace it: 'who being past feeling, have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness' (Eph 4:19).
      Consequently, Scripture states both that Pharaoh hardened his heart against God, and that God hardened Pharaoh's heart (Exodus 8:32 & 9:12).
    The Holy Spirit convicts men of their sin and draws them to the Savior (John 16:8-11 & 3:5-6). Yet, at least once in history, God has punished iniquity by withdrawing His Spirit. Prior to the world wide flood, God said, 'My Spirit will not strive with man forever,' and then He appointed 120 years during which repentance could be made (Gen 6:3)). Instead of repenting, man used God's longsuffering as an occasion for further sin, and only Noah and his family were spared.
    God has further declared that He will not forgive blasphemy against the Holy Spirit(Mat 12:31).
    …If one's conscience is bothering him to the point that he feels he is too guilty for God to forgive, he has the assurance of God's Word that forgiveness is possible. The very fact that he is bothered by his sinfulness shows that the Holy Spirit has not abandoned him nor has God given him over to a depraved mind.
    The real danger arises, however, when one can continually violate God's law and never feel the slightest remorse over his rebellion. The Bible's warning should jolt the spiritually flippant out of their complacency:"
    "It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Heb 10:31).
    "Seek the Lord while He may be found; call upon Him while He is near. Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; and let him return to the Lord, and He will have compassion on him; and to our God, for He will abundantly pardon" (Isaiah 55:6).
    [Henry M. Morris and Martin E. Clark, The Bible Has the Answer, Revised and Expanded (Green Forest, Arkansas: Master Books, 1976), pp. 244-246, emphasis added.]
    George Standison and staff further clarify,
    " With this exception [the unforgivable sin], there is nothing in the category of human offenses that is beyond the reach of divine forgiveness. 'Although your sins be like scarlet, they shall be white as snow.' is the ancient promise given by God to men; 'though they be like crimson, they shall be as wool' [Isaiah 1:18].
    This is not to be interpreted, however, as an encouragement to sin, but rather as an inducement to repentance. If the sinner truly repents, imploring God's forgiveness for Jesus' sake; if he accepts him as Saviour and endeavors, with divine help, to live thereafter a Christian life, he will not only be forgiven, but will be kept from falling back into sin. This is the teaching of the Gospel, and it is exemplified in innumerable cases today. We have many instances everywhere of great sinners who have forsaken their evil ways and who are now living the new life, sustained by divine power.
    'There's a wideness in God's mercy
    Like the wideness of the sea.'​
    We have the Saviour's distinct assurance, 'Him that cometh unto me, I will in no wise cast out' [John 6:37]. There is no punishment for sins that are forgiven. 'Jesus paid it all'" [Bible Answers for 1000 Difficult Questions (Iowa Falls: World Bible Publishers)].
    If you, dear reader, have not yet truly repented of your sins and asked our Lord Jesus Christ for the total forgiveness and salvation that only his precious blood can provide, we urge you to do so immediately. It is the wisest decision you can ever make!
     
  2. nyjujubeez

    nyjujubeez Newbie

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    Can a Christian commit “the unpardonable sin”?

    Authorities agree that the answer is no. Here's why.
    "If we refuse to accept the testimony given to us by the Holy Spirit, fight off His conviction of our sin, and never accept the truth, we will never come to Christ for salvation. In Christ, all our sins are forgiven. Therefore, no Christian can commit the unpardonable sin. Only an unregenerate person who refuses to come to Christ will die in his or her sins" [SIZE=-1][Freedom in Christ (Knoxville, Tennessee: FICM.org, 2002).][/SIZE].
    "…once you accept Jesus, that part of the Holy Spirit's job is complete, thus you can't blaspheme His work. Naturally, He continues to work with you, and you can be stubborn and resist Him as a Christian, but you can't blaspheme Him. Live unproductively, carnal and unspiritual, possible. But commit the unpardonable sin? It's just not possible for a true Christian. Remember what Paul said: [Darrin Yeager (DYeager.org, 2002).]
    “There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus…” (Rom 8:1).​
    A true Christian cannot commit a sin for which there is no forgiveness. We are protected by the power of God (1 Pet 1:5). Although we can certainly grieve the Holy Spirit, he still seals us for the day of redemption (Eph 4:30). The Apostle Paul was confident "that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ" (Phill 1:6, NKJV).
    Bear in mind, however, if someone who claims to be a Christian is responding to the Holy Spirit and Christ in a way very similar to that of the Pharisees, despite the strong witness of the Holy Spirit and abundant exposure to the truth of God's Word, it is highly doubtful that the person was ever saved. Only God knows for sure. The evidence clearly points to an unregenerate heart.
    "…for a tree is known by its fruit. …For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks" (Matthew 12:33-34, NKJV).
     
  3. LilLamb219

    LilLamb219 The Lamb is gone Supporter

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    I couldn't find where you might have answered this...but WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE?

    Do you believe that Christ died for your sins and you are forgiven?
     
  4. nyjujubeez

    nyjujubeez Newbie

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    RobertZ - you have to ask yourself why are you feeling the way you are feeling now. You mentioned that you have been in the Word and weeping. Remember it is not you who draws yourself to the LORD (no, not one seeks the LORD) - it is the LORD who draws you...
     
  5. RobertZ

    RobertZ Well-Known Member

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    I dont really know, im afraid it could just be a wordly sorrow which brings death instead of a Godly sorrow that brings salvation.

    Esau wept bitter tears as well but could find no place for repentance because he sinned so greviously.
     
  6. RobertZ

    RobertZ Well-Known Member

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    Isaiah 1:15 "So when you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide My eyes from you; Yes, even though you multiply prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are covered with blood.
    Jeremiah 11:11 Therefore thus says the LORD, "Behold I am bringing disaster on them which they will not be able to escape; though they will cry to Me, yet I will not listen to them.
    Jeremiah 14:12 "When they fast, I am not going to listen to their cry; and when they offer burnt offering and grain offering, I am not going to accept them. Rather I am going to make an end of them by the sword, famine and pestilence."
    Ezekiel 8:18 "Therefore, I indeed will deal in wrath. My eye will have no pity nor will I spare; and though they cry in My ears with a loud voice, yet I will not listen to them."
    Micah 3:4 Then they will cry out to the LORD, But He will not answer them. Instead, He will hide His face from them at that time Because they have practiced evil deeds.
    Zechariah 7:13 "And just as He called and they would not listen, so they called and I would not listen," says the LORD of hosts;
     
  7. RobertZ

    RobertZ Well-Known Member

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    Doesnt this sound like whats happened to me? with all of my nightmares about Hell? waking up at night with my skin burning? Hearing what sounded like God mocking back at me as mentioned in Proverbs when I asked him to save me?

    If this doesnt sound like someone who has fallen into the hands of the Living God I dont know what does.
     
  8. nyjujubeez

    nyjujubeez Newbie

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    You posted:
    I dont really know, im afraid it could just be a wordly sorrow which brings death instead of a Godly sorrow that brings salvation.

    So is this sorrow leading you to salvation now? Are you ready to have Jesus be your LORD and Savior? What are your feelings towards this. Are you wishy washy upset or are you truly upset?



    You posted:
    Esau wept bitter tears as well but could find no place for repentance because he sinned so greviously.

    What was his sin? Did he reach out to the LORD? I don't remember him crying out to God. He cried out for his birthright.
     
  9. RobertZ

    RobertZ Well-Known Member

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    I am upset and disgusted with myself but when I pray to God I either get silence in return or a laughing mocking voice telling me its too late.


    Thats right, he blew his birthright for a pot of stew and in comparison the same can be said for a person who blows their chance for salvation in exchange for a season of sin.
     
  10. nyjujubeez

    nyjujubeez Newbie

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    You Posted:
    Since that time I have been trying so hard to get saved, begging God to deal with me again but all I get in return now is silence. I was so stupid for walking away. I sealed my fate after that service in 1999 as it was the last time God spoke to my heart.

    If you said that you have silence, how can you also be having dreams of hell? Either the Lord is answering you or not. So are you saying God will answer about damnation but not about salvation? What salvation opportunity are you looking for? What sign is it that you are waiting to see?
     
  11. nyjujubeez

    nyjujubeez Newbie

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    So the difference here is Esau did not care about his stand with God, he cared about earthly possession and pride. Do you care about your relationship with the Lord?
     
  12. RobertZ

    RobertZ Well-Known Member

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    In all honesty my heart is so hardened I do not really know if its that or if I just fear being left behind in the rapture and going to hell.
     
  13. RobertZ

    RobertZ Well-Known Member

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    Something else, ever since I was a child I have had great fears of the rapture and I have always viewed God as someone who is going to get me know matter what I do.

    I have never understood the merciful side of God and I have never understood how to just Trust in what Jesus did for me and now I feel like I have gone so far that even if I wanted to know trust in Jesus that its too late for me because I abused Gods sacrafice so greatly and now I see God as a God of Justice for me just waiting to destroy me in Hell.


    Its as if I have lived my entire life knowing that I will be left behind and knowing that I cant be saved. I really dont know what in the world is wrong with me. I think im going nuts.
     
  14. Cain Spencer

    Cain Spencer God save us all.

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    Let us remeber that it is not so much the Holy Spirit that withdraws from us but rather us that withdraws from it. It is called closing the door back in Christ' face.
     
  15. sbbqb7n16

    sbbqb7n16 Veteran - Blue Bible Dude

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    Robert,

    I see you typing that you want forgiveness, but that's complete bull. You want everyone to agree with you that God's turned His back on you.

    Which hasn't happened by the way.

    So you post verses taken out of context, and arguments about how God has given up on you. and for some odd reason, you want us to agree with you.

    Maybe then you could explain to yourself why you feel so bad.

    It's actually because psychologically you feel a need to punish yourself for the wrong choices you've made in life. And if God would forgive you, then you wouldn't get the punishment you think you deserve. So you choose to believe that He won't forgive you, which allows you to punish yourself. And you pick and choose verses here and there to perpetuate that belief.

    Your arguments are wrong scripturally.

    1) Look at the life of the Apostle Paul.
    2) Look at the thief on the cross beside Jesus
    3) Look at the imagery of Barrabas being set free and Christ being sent to the cross instead - a cruel killer who was supposed to go to the cross after a lifetime of heinous crimes who gets to go free because the sinless Christ takes his place on the cross
    4) Look at the 1000's of sinners worldwide who have received forgiveness in Christ after lifetimes of sinful decisions and an unwillingness at first to repent.
    5) Read up on the patience, love, mercy, and forgiveness of God.

    And then tell me what you've done that's so bad that God has turned His back on you.
     
  16. RobertZ

    RobertZ Well-Known Member

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    But Paul didnt walk away from God and Paul also said he obtained mercy because he sinned against God in ignorance.

    I cant say the same for myself as I certainly was not ignorant of my sins against God.

    Not trying to be funny but can you give any examples of anyone who had been exposed to great light and then turned away and later came back and was saved?
     
  17. nyjujubeez

    nyjujubeez Newbie

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    I'm praying for you :)
    Listen, I would go and read about those who have had hardened hearts in the Word. See if your actions and their actions match up. Take Pharoah for example. You have to ask, why did he let the Hebrews free and then why did he turn around and track them down to kill them? Does that sound like what you are doing? Are you just wanting to be a Christian to get out of the rapture but will turn around and not love your brothers? Take time to read John all the way through again.

    I understand you having a hard time seeing the Lord as merciful (I grew up in the Catholic church) -
    But you HAVE TO TRUST THE LORD and NOT your own understanding. Even in the OT the LORD says he wishes NONE to perish...that is WHY Jesus came to take our place. We are all sinners and none of us look for the LORD, He has chosen us - we do not choose Him. We are uncapable, He is the one who calls us. Have faith in HIS ability, not yours for salvation. The LORD is understanding and gracious because WHILE we were sinners He died for us - not after but during.
     
  18. sbbqb7n16

    sbbqb7n16 Veteran - Blue Bible Dude

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    20. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.21. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.22. Professing to be wise, they became fools,23. and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.24. Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.25. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.26. For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,27. and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.28. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,29. being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips,30. slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,31. without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;32. and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.
    Romans 1:20-32

    In context, that verse is about people who turned from God to idolatry and even though they knew the law of God, they willingly turned away from it, did not seek forgiveness, and continue to encourage people who practice sinful things to keep on sinning.

    Does that still accurately descrbie you? Aren't you seeking forgiveness?

    20. Wisdom shouts in the street,
    She lifts her voice in the square;
    21. At the head of the noisy streets she cries out;
    At the entrance of the gates in the city she utters her sayings:
    22. "How long, O naive ones, will you love being simple-minded?
    And scoffers delight themselves in scoffing
    And fools hate knowledge?
    23. "Turn to my reproof,
    Behold, I will pour out my spirit on you;
    I will make my words known to you.
    24. "Because I called and you refused,
    I stretched out my hand and no one paid attention;
    25. And you neglected all my counsel
    And did not want my reproof;
    26. I will also laugh at your calamity;
    I will mock when your dread comes,
    27. When your dread comes like a storm
    And your calamity comes like a whirlwind,
    When distress and anguish come upon you.
    28. "Then they will call on me, but I will not answer;
    They will seek me diligently but they will not find me,
    29. Because they hated knowledge
    And did not choose the fear of the LORD.
    30. "They would not accept my counsel,
    They spurned all my reproof.
    31. "So they shall eat of the fruit of their own way
    And be satiated with their own devices.
    32. "For the waywardness of the naive will kill them,
    And the complacency of fools will destroy them.
    33. "But he who listens to me shall live securely
    And will be at ease from the dread of evil."
    Proverbs 1:20-33

    In context, this is an allegory of a person named Wisdom, who is telling people what will happen to those who ignore wisdom. Foolish decisions eventually get foolish consequences.

    This is NOT God talking about salvation, or giving a requirement for salvation. It is an encouragement to live and make wise decisions to avoid the consequences (in this life) of foolish ones.
    12. Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.13. But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.14. For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,15. while it is said, "TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
    DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS, AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME."
    16. For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses?17. And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?18. And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient?19. So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.
    Hebrews 3:12-19 (emphasis added)

    In context, the passage itself points out that as long as it is called "Today" you have a chance to repent. ie, Every day. Is today "today"? yes - so then it's not too late for you Robert.

    Also in the passage you picked your verse out of, it says that the only reason they were kept out was because of their "unbelief." It doesn't say the sins of their past were too great to be forgiven. It doesn't say they deserve to be punished. It doesn't say that it's too late for them now. It says "Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God."
     
  19. sbbqb7n16

    sbbqb7n16 Veteran - Blue Bible Dude

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    Can you provide me an example of someone who turned away from God who wanted to receive Christ but never did?

    How can you turn away from Christ when you've never given your life to Him?


    Paul willingly murdered Christians. He may have not known that Christianity was true, but as a Pharisee, he for sure knew that "thou shalt not murder." Was he ignorant in his murder?
     
  20. RobertZ

    RobertZ Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, I need a little time to let all of this soak in and I will probably need to read over this several times to make sure I understand clearly. My mental capacity to focus on anything right now is pretty messed up so please just bare with me.
     
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