When God ceases to offer salvation

RobertZ

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"

There is no doubt evil spirits have control of you and you refuse to rid yourself from them:

Well how in the world am I supposed to rid myself of them if God has left me to my sins and stopped trying to draw me to salvation?


"

While we have compassion for a lost soul there comes a point that they must be left alone to their own devices


steven

Which is exactly what I fear that God has done with me.





Im sure you sense the frustration coming from me and please understand that im grateful for you trying to help me. But man, im sooooo messed up right now, its just unbelievable.
 
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LilLamb219

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How have I taken them out of context? I mean they say what they say and its pretty easy to understand their meaning.

In Matthew we hear our Lord say, "Lo, I am with you all the days..."

God has promised to be with us, but yet on the other hand, we can turn our backs on Him and walk away from salvation.

As I've stated before, it sounds as if you have faith. Do you believe that Christ died on the cross for the forgiveness of your sins? Or not?

Going up to some altar call is not salvation. Salvation was won for you at the cross and is God's work. You keep dwelling on some event you think should have happened and are now worried God doesn't want you. You are looking at Christianity in the wrong light.

Christianity isn't about what we do or don't do. It's an identity. It's who we are. Are you his or are you going to walk away? Quit worrying and look to whether you believe in what God has done for you at the cross ...or whether you reject the Christ.
 
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RobertZ

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but yet on the other hand, we can turn our backs on Him and walk away from salvation.


Exactly, and that is what I think that I did. The last time I can remember God offering me salvation was 10yrs ago and like an idiot I walked away from his call.
 
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spr

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Not did, but doing. That is what you are doing. You can't walk away from salvation until it is too late. Since you were able to type that message that means you still have time.

Don't fear what already happened, fear what will happen if you don't get your eyes where they belong.
 
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ephraimanesti

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Which is exactly what I fear that God has done with me.

MY DEAR BROTHER,

NO! This is what YOU have done with/to you.

Perhaps it is time that you stop blaming God for your unwillingness to take the necessary actions on your own behalf--repent, accept, and trust--and get your act together. As long as you have breath, you have time. However, who knows what tomorrow will bring.

The fact that you remember His past call of ten years ago indicates that He is still calling you or you would have forgotten the whole thing. Get your act together and respond to His continuing call!

:bow:ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim
 
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RobertZ

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Since you were able to type that message that means you still have time.

Maybe im not being clear enough about what has happened to me. I dont believe that our chance for salvation relies on rather or not we are still alive because that would be to say that its MAN who is in charge of when he gets saved and that isnt true at all.

As I said before, God calls and we must respond to his call. I believe their comes a time while still alive on earth that a human can say no to God for the last time and then God will leave that person alone for good. After that point you cant be saved, alive or not.
 
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RobertZ

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MY DEAR BROTHER,

NO! This is what YOU have done with/to you.

Perhaps it is time that you stop blaming God for your unwillingness to take the necessary actions on your own behalf--repent, accept, and trust--and get your act together.

Im not blaming God, its my idiotic fault for walking away from my last call. Not Gods fault.


The fact that you remember His past call of ten years ago indicates that He is still calling you

I wish he was still calling me, I really do and I wish I could believe that. I have tried desperately for over a year now reading Gods word and crying my heart out to him but all I get in the end is silence and the painful reminder that I walked away from God a decade ago and he has not dealt with me again since that time.

Strangly enough the closer I try to get the God the more depressed I become. I can hear his mocking voice just as that scripture in Proverbs talks about how God will mock back at you for not heeding his calls when your time of need comes.
 
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ephraimanesti

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I dont see how everyone is saying that over time God will not give a person over when Romans clearly has something totally different to say about it.

"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient" (Romans 1:28)
From your Post, i would say that you have very much "retained God in your knowledge." DO NOT LET satan WREST THE SCRIPTURES AND TWIST THEM INTO A NOOSE FOR YOU!

Then we have Proverbs 1:24-32 which clearly shows that after a period of time when God has been dealing with someone that he will let that person go and when the person that would not listen to God has their time of need they will cry out to him but will not find him.
This was written close to 1000 years before Christ. Jesus' Incarnation, Life, Death and Resurrection changed the rules--opening wide the door to God's Grace.

Salvation is on Gods terms, not ours. He calls us and we have the responsibility to respond to that call.
YES!!! That is everyone's point! Stop allowing satan to play mind-games with you and just DO IT!

:bow:ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim
 
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H

Hosannainthehighest

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did you know there is a scripture that says SATAN COMES AS AN ANGEL OF LIGHT?
do you realise that satan knows all scripture? do you also know that he speaks an element of truth? enough to get you to think it's from God, but then he twists it to the point that you are full of guilt?

there is NO WAY Jesus is standing over you mocking you. Never in scripture has He ever acted that way. You are being lied to by satan, and you've bitten the bait. now he has you believing hook, line and sinker that you are damned.

This is not of God.

Have you considered...Moses murdered, David committed adultery and murder, one of the apostles killed Christians before being saved..... They then went on to follow the Lord and be blessed by Him for His glory. They could have, like you, believed they were beyond salvation and then not known the love of God for them.

The bible says to renew your mind. It seems that your deep held belief that you are damned is filtering what you read in the bible.
 
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RobertZ

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This was written close to 1000 years before Christ. Jesus' Incarnation, Life, Death and Resurrection changed the rules--opening wide the door to God's Grace.


I hear exactly what your saying however the same rule applys today that you cannot keep on resisting Gods callings and grace and then expect God to answere your call in your time of Trouble after you have ignored his warnings. Of course he will mock this type of person when they call on him.

God hears the prayers of the truely broken and repentant heart. Not a person who cries out because they realize that they are about to be left behind in the rapture.


I mean come on, I ignore God like a moron and then I expect him to suddenly rescue me from Hell when I cry out to him. That is not a truely repentant heart and no matter how hard I try I cant seem to must up true repentance and Godly sorrow because those are both Gifts from God which I blew.
 
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RobertZ

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Never in scripture has He ever acted that way..


Im not saying that Jesus does the mocking, its the spirit of God himself who does and I proved that in the passage of Proverbs.

Yes, I know that Jesus is the one who died for the sins of the world but its the Spirit of God who pulls us to Jesus and if you offend him enough he will in turn repay you as you deserve.


Read Hebrews 10:26-31 if you dont believe me.
 
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Hosannainthehighest

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all I get in the end is silence and the painful reminder that I walked away from God a decade ago and he has not dealt with me again since that time.

Strangly enough the closer I try to get the God the more depressed I become. I can hear his mocking voice just as that scripture in Proverbs talks about how God will mock back at you for not heeding his calls when your time of need comes.
This is not the voice of God. This is the words of the liar satan. God would NEVER talk to you this way...NEVER.
 
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Hosannainthehighest

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Im not saying that Jesus does the mocking, its the spirit of God himself who does and I proved that in the passage of Proverbs.

Yes, I know that Jesus is the one who died for the sins of the world but its the Spirit of God who pulls us to Jesus and if you offend him enough he will in turn repay you as you deserve.


Read Hebrews 10:26-31 if you dont believe me.
i'm not going to believe your take on things. Jesus IS God. He said He came to show you the Father. If Jesus never acted this way on earth, then there's no way God is thinking that way towards you either, since Jesus only ever did what the Father told Him to do. They are one. You are not beyond salvation. You are following a liar by believing this.
 
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spr

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If you believe you missed the bus how are you supposed to be corrected? All that can be done for you is to be told there is opportunity to do the work of God until the end. If you are paranoid that you are unable to do the work of God, that is work in itself, is it not?

What terrified Job? It was what God was going to bring upon him. You seem terrified, and the question has to become why don't you run with scoffers and mockers who don't care about the God who sits in heaven. That must be some sort of evidence in your favor.
 
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nyjujubeez

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"I would like to just know if what it says in Matthew is true. It states that every sin is forgivable, except if a person speaks badly about the Holy Spirit. I have attended a private Christian school and one day my Bible teacher was saying that a person is not forgiven if he/she speaks against the Holy Spirit. As he stated that… I thought something against the Holy Spirit. I did not mean to… it just happened. I prayed and asked forgiveness, but does that mean I am forgiven or eternally condemned? SINCERELY WORRIED"
Clearly, this student is confused about the true meaning of this biblical reference. Once understood, this young person can rest assured that the unpardonable sin was most certainly not committed in this case. In fact, this sin cannot be committed by a true Christian.
An unforgivable sin is described in Mark 3 and Matthew 12. These passages involve Jesus Christ's repeated and widespread public defeat of Satan and his demons. Many readers and theologians have been confused about the true nature of this sin. As you read these verses for yourself (below), bear in mind part of the purpose of Jesus Christ's ministry was to directly confront darkness with the light of truth in a public battle of pure good versus pure evil. The only being in the universe that is more powerful than the Evil One, is God. He is the only one with enough power to bind Satan himself and forcibly dispossess him.
Mark 3 22-30 states,
"And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, 'He has Beezlebub,' and, 'By the ruler of the demons He casts out demons.' …'Assuredly, I [Jesus] say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation;' because they said, 'He has an unclean spirit" (NKJV, emphasis added / Note: The Pharisees made the same charge in Mat 9:34 In Mat 12 31-32, Jesus says to the Pharisees,
"Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come" (NKJV, emphasis added).
What is the context of these statements, and what is the exact sin described?

Pharisees

The Pharisees had long observed the sinless Jesus Christ. They observed him doing undeniable and powerful miracles that were, at the very least, clear evidence of power supplied by God. These impressive miracles were freely given in pure kindness and love to release people from obvious suffering and the oppression of horrible evil.
However, the Pharisees had so firmly set their hearts against accepting Jesus as the Messiah that they rejected the obvious truth before them and perversely twisted it to influence the crowds. They publicly credited the most ultimately evil being in the universe with these precious, godly miracles. In other words, they called the precious and holy Spirit of God, the unclean spirit of satan. In effect, they charged Jesus Christ with sorcery; one who is in league with satan. These charges are not only appalling and extremely serious, but clearly absurd. As Jesus immediately responded,
"How can satan cast out satan? If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan has risen up against himself, and is divided, he cannot stand, but has an end. No one can enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man. And then he will plunder his house" (Mark 3: 23-27; also see Luke 11: 14-23).
Note that…
"Jesus does not deny the existence of other exorcists here. [See: Mat 7:22-23] …Exorcists often invoked a higher spirit to get rid of a lower one. …But a demon's retreat that meanwhile drew attention to another of Satan's servants would only be a strategic retreat; such possible activity contrasts with the wholesale exorcizing of the masses that Jesus undertakes, which clearly signifies a defeat of satan [Mat 12:29; 4:24; 8:16; Mark 1:34, 39; 5:12, 15; Luke 9:1] …the parable about tying up a protective householder means that Jesus had defeated Satan and could therefore plunder his possessions--free the demon-possessed" [SIZE=-1][Craig S. Keener, The IVP Bible Background Commentary, New Testament (Downers Grove, Illinois: InterVarsity Press, 1993), pp. 143, 80.][/SIZE].
Author Dr. Henry Morris insightfully clarifies the true nature of Pharisees' sin:
"The unforgivable sin of speaking against the Holy Spirit has been interpreted in various ways, but the true meaning cannot contradict other Scripture. It is unequivocally clear that the one unforgivable sin is permanently rejecting Christ (John 3:18; 3:36). Thus, speaking against the Holy Spirit is equivalent to rejecting Christ with such finality that no future repentance is possible. 'My spirit shall not always strive with man,' God said long ago (Gen 6:3)
…In the context of this particular passage (Mat 12:22-32), Jesus had performed a great miracle of creation, involving both healing and casting out a demon, but the Pharisees rejected this clear witness of the Holy Spirit. Instead they attributed His powers to Satan, thus demonstrating an attitude permanently resistant to the Spirit, and to the deity and saving Gospel of Christ" [SIZE=-1][Henry M. Morris, The Defender's Study Bible (Iowa Falls, Iowa: World Bible Publishers, 1995), emphasis added.][/SIZE].
 
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nyjujubeez

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What is the difference between the two types of blasphemy described in Matthew 12? Why is the sacrifice of Christ ineffective as an atonement for the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit?
Respected Christian theologian Dr. F.F. Bruce writes,
"…Speaking against the Son of Man might be due to a failure to recognize Him for what He is. So Paul recalls how in his pre-Christian days he thought it his duty to oppose the name of Jesus of Nazareth. But if, having seen the light on the Damascus Road, he had deliberately closed his eyes to it and kicked out against the goad which was directing him into the true path, that would have been the sin against the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit persuades and enables men to accept Christ and enjoy the saving benefits of the gospel [John 16:8; Acts 7:51], but if anyone refuses to submit to the Spirit's gracious constraint, preferring to call good evil and evil good, how can the gospel avail for him? The deliberate refusal of the grace of God is the one sin which by its very nature is irremediable" [SIZE=-1][F.F. Bruce, Answers to Questions (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan Publishing House, 1973), pp. 46-47.][/SIZE].
"Anyone who rejects the Holy Spirit's convicting influence and does not repent will not be forgiven, 'neither in this world, neither in the world to come' (Mat 12:32)" [SIZE=-1][Ray Comfort, “The Unpardonable Sin,” The Evidence Bible (Gainesville, Florida: Bridge-Logo Publishers, 2001).][/SIZE].
“Jesus thus regards blasphemy against the Spirit—permanently rejecting his identity (Mat 12:18) as attested by the Spirit's works (12:28)—as the worst of sins”
[Craig S. Keener, The IVP Bible Background Commentary, New Testament (Downers Grove, Illinois: InterVarsity Press, 1993), p. 80.].
 
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RobertZ

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This is not the voice of God. This is the words of the liar satan. God would NEVER talk to you this way...NEVER.


I think sometimes people seem to forget that while God is a God of Love and Mercy he is also a God of Justice.

This is from the Spirit of the Lord himself-

Proverbs 1:26-28
I will also laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your dread comes,

When your dread comes like a storm And your calamity comes like a whirlwind, When distress and anguish come upon you.

Then they will call on me, but I will not answer; They will seek me diligently but they will not find me.
 
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RobertZ

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i'm not going to believe your take on things.


Hey, it isnt my take on things. Its Gods take on things and I have provided scripture for you as proof on this. Rather you want to read it or not will not change what Gods word clearly says.
 
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nyjujubeez

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The situation was similar at the biblical city of Capernaum, where Jesus Christ performed an extraordinary number of miracles and taught many important public lessons. In the end, most of the people of Capernaum remained unrepentant. Like the Pharisees, they persistently rejected the convicting ministry of the Holy Spirit who bore witness to the true identity of Jesus Christ, their Messiah.
They turned away from the abundant light graciously provided to them, and chose to remain forever in their unbelief. They persistently refused to listen to anything the Holy Spirit was telling them. Like the Pharisees, they chose self-imposed blindness. For this reason, they were strongly judged. "For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required…" (Luke 12:48). Thus, along with nearby Chorazin and Bethsaida, Capernaum received a very stern warning from Jesus, "It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee" (Matt 11:21-24).
How can one know whether or not they have committed "the unforgivable sin?"</B>

Bible researcher Larry Richards points out,
"This reference to an unforgivable sin has troubled many unnecessarily. Those who are concerned that they have done something for which Jesus will not forgive them show a very different attitude from the Pharisees, who refused to accept even the most compelling evidence that Jesus was the Son of God. The person who rejects the Spirit's message about Jesus will not be forgiven. Anyone who seeks Jesus' forgiveness certainly has not committed the unforgivable sin" [SIZE=-1][Larry Richards, 735 Baffling Bible Questions Answered (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Fleming H. Revell, 1993), pp. 241-242.][/SIZE].
Scholars Morris and Clark further explain:
"Persons deeply troubled by a guilty conscience often fear that they have sinned too grievously for God to forgive and save them. Others, dominated by a carnal, calculating attitude, hope to sin to the limit and then come to Christ to escape the consequences. Thus with radically different motives, both ask 'Is it possible to sin beyond the point of being saved?'
God's ability to save is not limited by man's sinfulness. In fact, every person, before he accepts Jesus Christ as Savior, is in total rebellion against God, though sinfulness many not manifest itself with equal intensity in every person. The Apostle John taught believers,
'If any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He is the propitiation (satisfaction) for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world' ( 1 John 2:1-2).
The Bible is filled with examples of people who receive forgiveness for all manner of wickedness, for 'the Lord's hand is not short that it cannot save' (Isaiah 59:1). God's boundless grace prompted Paul to exclaim, 'When sin increased, grace abounded all the more' (Romans 5:20). And Paul's personal testimony showed God's redemptive purpose and power were not limited by man's sinfulness, thus encouraging those who feared they had sinned too grievously to be saved (1 Tim 1:15-16).
While God's ability to save is boundless, the Bible clearly shows that there are certain conditions under which He will not save. For instance, God will not save those who neglect or despise Christ's sacrifice in an effort to find an alternate salvation plan.
'For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins' (Heb 10:26).
This warning pertains to those who 'trample under foot the Son of God' and regard His blood as unclean (Heb 10:29). God the Father has appointed His Son's sacrifice as the sole way of salvation and will not grant salvation to those who seek it by any other means.
The book of Romans contains the most concentrated teaching on the subject of salvation to be found in the NT, and it begins with a panorama of man's sin. Those who rejected God's revelation concerning Himself and worshipped idols instead were given over by God to a more severe moral defilement (Rom 1:22-24). Those who worshipped man instead of God received equally severe punishment: 'For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions,' the result being rampant immorality and homosexuality (Rom 1:26-27).
'And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper' (Rom 1:28).
 
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RobertZ

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"…Speaking against the Son of Man might be due to a failure to recognize Him for what He is. So Paul recalls how in his pre-Christian days he thought it his duty to oppose the name of Jesus of Nazareth. But if, having seen the light on the Damascus Road, he had deliberately closed his eyes to it and kicked out against the goad which was directing him into the true path, that would have been the sin against the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit persuades and enables men to accept Christ and enjoy the saving benefits of the gospel [John 16:8; Acts 7:51], but if anyone refuses to submit to the Spirit's gracious constraint, preferring to call good evil and evil good, how can the gospel avail for him? The deliberate refusal of the grace of God is the one sin which by its very nature is irremediable" [SIZE=-1][F.F. Bruce, Answers to Questions (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Zondervan Publishing House, 1973), pp. 46-47.][/SIZE].
"Anyone who rejects the Holy Spirit's convicting influence and does not repent will not be forgiven, 'neither in this world, neither in the world to come' (Mat 12:32)" [SIZE=-1][Ray Comfort, “The Unpardonable Sin,” The Evidence Bible (Gainesville, Florida: Bridge-Logo Publishers, 2001).][/SIZE].
“Jesus thus regards blasphemy against the Spirit—permanently rejecting his identity (Mat 12:18) as attested by the Spirit's works (12:28)—as the worst of sins”
[Craig S. Keener, The IVP Bible Background Commentary, New Testament (Downers Grove, Illinois: InterVarsity Press, 1993), p. 80.].



Exactly.
 
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