When God ceases to offer salvation

[RobertZ]

Hi, I myself have been struggeling with this issue for over a year now. Let me start by saything that I do not believe that the Holy Spirit will deal with a stubborn unrepentant sinner all the way to his death bed. I believe a time comes that the Holy Spirit will indeed withdrawl from a person like that leaving them to their sins and to their damnation. Once this happens you have crossed the line with God, no one knows when they can toy around with Gods grace for so long until finally God tells the Holy Spirit to let that one go!

I am terrified that this is the situation I have found myself to be in. Im 37yrs old, I have been in church all of my life and have been exposed to great amounts of light and opportunities that most people do not get as I also went to a Christian School for 12yrs.


I remember time after time at the end of church services as a little boy sitting on the front pew feeling God tugging at my heart, wanting to go forward so bad I could hardly stand it. Its obvious I was under conviction but for some stupid reason I would never go forward and get saved! I always felt a sensation of relief when the singing stopped and it was time to leave church. I know that sounds horrible but its true, I didnt realize it then but I realize now that each time I was resisting Gods spirit who was trying to bring me to salvation.

Fast forward to the year 1999. Im at a church service and I feel God dealing with my heart like never before! I knew I had to get saved but for some stupid reason I yet again resisted! I remember walking out to my car to go home and looking back at the church and feeling this terrible dread come over me saying (If you leave now I will never draw you again! its now or never!)

I was such an idiot! I got in my car and drove away all because I was to embarressed to go back into church and tell someone I needed to be saved!


For the next decade I dove into willfull sinning like never before, I believe sometime after that service Gods Spirit stopped dealing with me and left me to my sins. I was looking at inappropriate content every day of the week for hours a day, cussing people out and was full of hate.


In November of 2008 I had a horrifying scare that the rapture would occure in Jan 2009. I wont go into details but I was sure it was about to happen. I remembered that I had never got saved and walked away from God. To my desperation I cried out to God to save me but it seemed to be in vain! I could sense something mocking back at me and telling me (You have rejected me so I am rejecting you!)

Since that time I have been trying so hard to get saved, begging God to deal with me again but all I get in return now is silence. I was so stupid for walking away. I sealed my fate after that service in 1999 as it was the last time God spoke to my heart.



"Today if you hear his voice harden not your heart"


Please take that advice from the Bible because you dont know when it will be the last time that you hear Gods voice calling you to salvation.

 

[rebekahy2k]

We are faulty down here, everyone is. I think just dont give up and keep trying everyday. God knows, we all fail sometimes. Im struggling with smoking and I feel very guilty. I do believe God is very understanding.

Born in sin and raised in inquity, we can't do right, we can only try.

Hi, I myself have been struggeling with this issue for over a year now. Let me start by saything that I do not believe that the Holy Spirit will deal with a stubborn unrepentant sinner all the way to his death bed. I believe a time comes that the Holy Spirit will indeed withdrawl from a person like that leaving them to their sins and to their damnation. Once this happens you have crossed the line with God, no one knows when they can toy around with Gods grace for so long until finally God tells the Holy Spirit to let that one go!

I am terrified that this is the situation I have found myself to be in. Im 37yrs old, I have been in church all of my life and have been exposed to great amounts of light and opportunities that most people do not get as I also went to a Christian School for 12yrs.


I remember time after time at the end of church services as a little boy sitting on the front pew feeling God tugging at my heart, wanting to go forward so bad I could hardly stand it. Its obvious I was under conviction but for some stupid reason I would never go forward and get saved! I always felt a sensation of relief when the singing stopped and it was time to leave church. I know that sounds horrible but its true, I didnt realize it then but I realize now that each time I was resisting Gods spirit who was trying to bring me to salvation.

Fast forward to the year 1999. Im at a church service and I feel God dealing with my heart like never before! I knew I had to get saved but for some stupid reason I yet again resisted! I remember walking out to my car to go home and looking back at the church and feeling this terrible dread come over me saying (If you leave now I will never draw you again! its now or never!)

I was such an idiot! I got in my car and drove away all because I was to embarressed to go back into church and tell someone I needed to be saved!


For the next decade I dove into willfull sinning like never before, I believe sometime after that service Gods Spirit stopped dealing with me and left me to my sins. I was looking at inappropriate content every day of the week for hours a day, cussing people out and was full of hate.


In November of 2008 I had a horrifying scare that the rapture would occure in Jan 2009. I wont go into details but I was sure it was about to happen. I remembered that I had never got saved and walked away from God. To my desperation I cried out to God to save me but it seemed to be in vain! I could sense something mocking back at me and telling me (You have rejected me so I am rejecting you!)

Since that time I have been trying so hard to get saved, begging God to deal with me again but all I get in return now is silence. I was so stupid for walking away. I sealed my fate after that service in 1999 as it was the last time God spoke to my heart.



"Today if you hear his voice harden not your heart"


Please take that advice from the Bible because you dont know when it will be the last time that you hear Gods voice calling you to salvation.

 

[RobertZ]

We are faulty down here, everyone is. I think just dont give up and keep trying everyday. God knows, we all fail sometimes. Im struggling with smoking and I feel very guilty. I do believe God is very understanding.

Born in sin and raised in inquity, we can't do right, we can only try.

Thanks for replying but my issue is a issue of God giving me up. Once that happens it doesnt matter how hard you try because you cant get saved from trying hard. God calls us and its our responsibility to respond to that call.

 

[visionary]

70 x 7 forgiveness and grace is offered. I know that conviction is hounding your heart. Look deep into our Lord's heart. Can you touch His Hem? Can you wrestle with Him all night like Jacob until you are blessed? Remember you gave the Lord a real hard time for a lot of years, He just might be giving you a taste of your own medicine, so that you never forget this?

 

[RobertZ]

70 x 7 forgiveness and grace is offered. I know that conviction is hounding your heart. Look deep into our Lord's heart. Can you touch His Hem? Can you wrestle with Him all night like Jacob until you are blessed? Remember you gave the Lord a real hard time for a lot of years, He just might be giving you a taste of your own medicine, so that you never forget this?

I have reocurring dreams that im in hell, I wake up at night with my skin litterally on fire. I have woke up in the night before to see a figure of what looked like Jesus stairing down at me and looking at me in disgust with blood dripping down his face.

I felt something deep down inside of me die too. Its as if my soul litterally died. It was painful thats all I can really tell you.

If anything it seems as if God is making sure that I get the message that im damned.

 

[visionary]

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Sounds like the devil is working very hard to make sure you believe that. That was not the Lord you saw in your nightmare.

 

[visionary]

Test it.. Next time it appears, rebuke it in the Lord's name. Praying for clarification from God on this issue.

 

[wonderwaleye]

As a babe in CHRIST many folks have no idea about the workings of GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT or even what GOD guides us to do in HIS WORD.

You have this problem.

It appears that the evil spirits have had a real play ground with you..

If you are to put them out and clean your house you will need GOD'S WORD working in your life. Read and reread the NEW TESTIMENT until the next time you read it you will already know what IT'S going to say. For then IT'S locked in your heart to draw from the rest of your life. You will never be sorry you did. This is GOD'S ROADMAP given to us so that we are able to walk up that path to the KINGDOM of ALMIGHTY GOD.


Then there are some very important BOOKS that are not stories that contain GOD'S WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING that can help us up the path to the KINGDOM of ALMIGHTY GOD:


Read from the books of the Apocrypha as soon as possible.

They will address the problems you face now and for a lifetime.


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Start reading:[/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]SIRACH, WISDOM, PROVERBS, ECCLESIASTES[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]These BOOKS can make a real difference in your life.[/FONT]


You can read and print out this online
at:http://www.riseisrael.com/Revision1Apocrypha.pdf

steven

 

[spr]

I'd like to see where in the scripture you are getting that. There are times to draw near to God, and sometimes people rebel, but that doesn't mean damnation. Sew to the flesh and reap from the flesh, sew to the spirit and reap from the spirit. Each day is another start.

If anyone has any damnation to issue it is Satan, because until the final Judgment there is no knowing who is really damned and who isn't. All we can figure is if we believe we are for God, and others are against us, they are against God. And that works until we learn how much confidence we can have in thinking we are for God. But even so, believe it, and walk. And if you can not believe it spend your time in fear and trembling. That's how scripture says salvation is to be found.

 

[Christsdaughter]

Everyone has until the end of their own life or the end of time to come to Christ as long as the motive is pure. God knows our hearts...don't worry about that! It sounds to me like you really love God and believe in Him. Give yourself to Him today! It sounds like you are under serious spiritual attacks! Satan is trying to keep you from salvation by telling you that God has given up on you! THAT IS A LIE! I will definately pray for you! God Bless!

 

[sbbqb7n16]

Yeah Robert... I don't think that's actually God. I really just don't. The very reason that Jesus came was to save sinners. So you're saying that you are one sinner He doesn't want to save anymore?? Please... you're the very reason He came!

The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
2 Peter 3:9

And let's see what Jesus himself has to say about people who lived a life of sin and hated it and want to turn back to God. If you have the time, please read Luke 15 - The Prodigal Son, and pay close attention to the actions of the Father towards the son who left - how he loved him, how he was waiting every day for him to come back, how he welcomed him back with open arms. That is how God is waiting for you even now:


12. But when Jesus heard this, He said, "It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick.13. "But go and learn what this means: `I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT SACRIFICE,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
Matthew 9:12-13

17. "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
John 3:17


Luke 15 [Commentary]
1. Now all the tax collectors and the sinners were coming near Him to listen to Him.2. Both the Pharisees and the scribes began to grumble, saying, "This man receives sinners and eats with them."3. So He told them this parable, saying,4. "What man among you, if he has a hundred sheep and has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open pasture and go after the one which is lost until he finds it?5. "When he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing.6. "And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, `Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!'7. "I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.

8. "Or what woman, if she has ten silver coins and loses one coin, does not light a lamp and sweep the house and search carefully until she finds it?9. "When she has found it, she calls together her friends and neighbors, saying, `Rejoice with me, for I have found the coin which I had lost!'10. "In the same way, I tell you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents."

11. And He said, "A man had two sons.12. "The younger of them said to his father, `Father, give me the share of the estate that falls to me.' So he divided his wealth between them.13. "And not many days later, the younger son gathered everything together and went on a journey into a distant country, and there he squandered his estate with loose living.14. "Now when he had spent everything, a severe famine occurred in that country, and he began to be impoverished.15. "So he went and hired himself out to one of the citizens of that country, and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.16. "And he would have gladly filled his stomach with the pods that the swine were eating, and no one was giving anything to him.17. "But when he came to his senses, he said, `How many of my father's hired men have more than enough bread, but I am dying here with hunger!18. `I will get up and go to my father, and will say to him, "Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in your sight;19. I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me as one of your hired men."'20. "So he got up and came to his father. But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and felt compassion for him, and ran and embraced him and kissed him.21. "And the son said to him, `Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight; I am no longer worthy to be called your son.'22. "But the father said to his slaves, `Quickly bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet;23. and bring the fattened calf, kill it, and let us eat and celebrate;24. for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.' And they began to celebrate.

25. "Now his older son was in the field, and when he came and approached the house, he heard music and dancing.26. "And he summoned one of the servants and began inquiring what these things could be.27. "And he said to him, `Your brother has come, and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has received him back safe and sound.'28. "But he became angry and was not willing to go in; and his father came out and began pleading with him.29. "But he answered and said to his father, `Look! For so many years I have been serving you and I have never neglected a command of yours; and yet you have never given me a young goat, so that I might celebrate with my friends;30. but when this son of yours came, who has devoured your wealth with prostitutes, you killed the fattened calf for him.'31. "And he said to him, `Son, you have always been with me, and all that is mine is yours.32. `But we had to celebrate and rejoice, for this brother of yours was dead and has begun to live, and was lost and has been found.' "

 

[raekae]

God doesn't give up. He hasn't given up on you. I have to agree with the other posters that think its the devil trying to convince you of these things. And from the sound of it, he's doing so very well...

You don't have to be in a church to be saved. If you want God in your life, tell Him. Tell Him you're a sinner, and that you believe in what Jesus did for you. Our God is a God of mercy and compassion. We have all made choices that aren't the best, and we have all heard God speak to us and we walk the other way. The thought that God has given up on you is a false thought, and you should really try and get it out of your head. I know its easier said than done...

I would suggest finding a church nearby. Go talk to a pastor. Have them pray with you. Get a bible, and read scriptures on salvation and the love of God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Praying for you!

 

[Emmy]

Dear RobertZ. You had many replies, and you alone will know what God`s answer is for you. May I remind you that God is Love, that Jesus died that we might live. God KNOWS your heart, He knows your every thought and every wish. God is a righteous God, He is fair and forgiving God, and we may be sure that God wants us back. God made us in His image, we alone in this Universe can think and reason. As long as you are sincerely trying to return to God: loving God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind, and follow Jesus back to God, our Heavenly Father will never forsake you. You have time enough to learn to love your neighbour, all others, whether friend or foe, As you love/treat yourself. God will never force you, but God knows your innermost wishes. I say this humbly and with love, Robert. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[sekir]

Hmm I have a feeling that God is not rejecting you ..if that was the case you wouldnt be alive or even feel guilt or want to be saved-Wow Praise God you have still have the need to be saved or be near him....only the HOly SPirit can do that to a person -make him want God his forgiveness

It is the enemy that whispers in ur ears that God does not want you ...

Say the prayer of salvation-and believe In God's forgiveness brother-dont delay anymore
dont rely on feelings or voices ....it will take time maybe or maybe God will deliver you completely from the hold of the devil ..sometimes God will deliberately allow us to taste the sins we did -so that we may turn from them forver and walk in obedience hence forth

SO brother -dont wait for an affirmation etc-receive Jesus as ur savioru-he is waiting for you ...dont let anything hold u back-u r alive that means there is time even now..remember the thief who got saved before his death...
Jesus doesnot want anyone to perish at all....so brother dont let any lies enter you

I went thru the same thing never feeling forgiven the voice that told me to sin saying it is too late anyways ..but I looked at the word of God ...and I started walking in obedience prayer and meditation of his word

do that and see the renewd you in Christ
'

 

[ephraimanesti]

Thanks for replying but my issue is a issue of God giving me up. Once that happens it doesnt matter how hard you try because you cant get saved from trying hard. God calls us and its our responsibility to respond to that call.

MY DEAR BROTHER,

You would benefit, i think, by foregoing the excessive self-focused drama, repenting, amending, accepting God's forgiveness, and getting on with your Christian life as Abba's beloved child.

GOD NEVER GIVES UP ON ANYONE. PERIOD!

Any voice which tries to tell you different is from the pit. (Yes, even satan can quote Scripture when it serves its purpose.)

Trust Scripture; trust God; and trust God's promises--especially the one which states that "He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." (II Peter 3:9)

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[RobertZ]

I dont see how everyone is saying that over time God will not give a person over when Romans clearly has something totally different to say about it.

"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient" (Romans 1:28)


Then we have Proverbs 1:24-32 which clearly shows that after a period of time when God has been dealing with someone that he will let that person go and when the person that would not listen to God has their time of need they will cry out to him but will not find him.

Salvation is on Gods terms, not ours. He calls us and we have the responsibility to respond to that call.

Proverbs 1:28
"Then they will call to me but I will not answer; they will look for me but will not find me.


Notice the IF word here in Hebrews. IF you hear his voice today harden not your heart. That means respond to his call today IF you hear his voice because it just might be your LAST CALL.

Heb 3:15
"Today if you will hear his voice harden not your hearts"

 

[LilLamb219]

I believe you've taken those scriptures out of context enough to scare you.

Here is something also that I see...you're saying that it's up to us to do our part for salvation by doing something (accepting or responding to the call) and I'm not one to believe in decision theology since I find it completely unbiblical. Salvation is 100% God's work. We receive it and we do that passively. If we reject salvation, that is active and is completely 100% our fault and is the reason we're damned.

We do not know if there is a point where God gives up on his sheep. We do not. We cannot. So we shouldn't pretend that we do know.

God is the fisherman who puts his nets in the water and scoops up the fish. Those who jump out, he puts his nets back in and re-scoops. It's not up to the fish to jump into the net because they see it there. God rescues us and we come to the realization of that fact and we are grateful.

Your worries show that you have faith. Explore that more than continuing in your worries.

 

[RobertZ]

I believe you've taken those scriptures out of context enough to scare you.

How have I taken them out of context? I mean they say what they say and its pretty easy to understand their meaning.

 

[wonderwaleye]

" Hi, I myself have been struggeling with this issue for over a year now. Let me start by saything that I do not believe that the Holy Spirit will deal with a stubborn unrepentant sinner all the way to his death bed. I believe a time comes that the Holy Spirit will indeed withdrawl from a person like that leaving them to their sins and to their damnation. Once this happens you have crossed the line with God, no one knows when they can toy around with Gods grace for so long until finally God tells the Holy Spirit to let that one go! "

Your close but not quite there in what you say. You are right when you say the HOLY SPIRIT WILL NOT deal with a unrepentant sinner till death. You are WRONG when you say:

"I believe a time comes that the Holy Spirit will indeed withdrawl from a person like that leaving them to their sins and to their damnation. Once this happens you have crossed the line with God, no one "


In this case the HOLY SPIRIT does not need to withdraw as they would of never been ANOINTED with GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT. Therefore GOD does not need to withdraw the HOLY SPIRIT from you.


There is no doubt evil spirits have control of you and you refuse to rid yourself from them:


Romans
Chapter 1


18 The wrath of God is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness.


19 For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it evident to them.


20 Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have no excuse;


21 for although they knew God they did not accord him glory as God or give him thanks. Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless minds were darkened.


22 While claiming to be wise, they became fools


GOD has a message for all about dealing with this person:


Ephesians
Chapter 5


6 Let no one deceive you with empty arguments, for because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the disobedient.


7 So do not be associated with them.


8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light,


9 for light produces every kind of goodness and righteousness and truth.


10 Try to learn what is pleasing to the Lord.


11 Take no part in the fruitless works of darkness; rather expose them,


12 for it is shameful even to mention the things done by them in secret;


13 but everything exposed by the light becomes visible,


14 for everything that becomes visible is light. Therefore, it says: "Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ will give you light."

It is clear that GOD wants us to turn from this man :


So do not be associated with them.


Because:


While claiming to be wise, they became fools


While we have compassion for a lost soul there comes a point that they must be left alone to their own devices


steven

 

[RobertZ]

"

Your close but not quite there in what you say. You are right when you say the HOLY SPIRIT WILL NOT deal with a unrepentant sinner till death. You are WRONG when you say:

"I believe a time comes that the Holy Spirit will indeed withdrawl from a person like that leaving them to their sins and to their damnation. Once this happens you have crossed the line with God, no one "


In this case the HOLY SPIRIT does not need to withdraw as they would of never been ANOINTED with GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT. Therefore GOD does not need to withdraw the HOLY SPIRIT from you.

What is the difference? either case the person ends up crossing the line with God and making salvation impossible.

And of course the Holy Spirit can withdraw, thats how the person is left to their sins because the Holy Spirit no longer draws the person to salvation.