When does our eternal life start?

Kenny'sID

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All these faithful witnesses remained faithful despite situations which would make most of us be tempted to cower in fear, so that, “that they might obtain a better resurrection..” Hebrews 11:35

All of these names we know are unquestionably written in God's book of life, “these all, having obtained a good report through faith..” Hebrews 11:39

If the wicked one turns from his sin, his name is written into the book of life: Ezekiel 18:21 “But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.”

If the righteous one whose name is written in the book of life turns back from his righteousness, his name is blotted out of the book of life: Ezekiel 18:24 “But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.”

Christ is not nullifying God's Law: Matthew 5:17 “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.” - Romans 3:31 “Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.” - Romans 8:4 “That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”

I'm saving that for the OSASr's. Makes it undeniably clear we can be in, then back out, and all by our own actions or lack thereof.
 
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Andrew Jeremiah

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And if any of those fall away? Then they were never written in that book to begin with.

To count ourselves as in before it's over, would not be wise.

I personally am always a work in progress, always working towards the goal.
"Falling away" means "apostasize" and those in Covenant can apostasize. But it NEVER means becoming UN-/NON-Covenant.

The prodigal son apostasized from his father's rule of law in the home and left all that was in the father's hand to give them and him but he NEVER stopped being a son. He began as a son, and he ended as a son.

Once a son, always a son.
No one can ever say of the man that provided seed toward their birth "you are not my father" and it be truth. The son is offspring of the father.
Once a son, always a son.
 
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Buzz_B

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"Falling away" means "apostasize" and those in Covenant can apostasize. But it NEVER means becoming UN-/NON-Covenant.

The prodigal son apostasized from his father's rule of law in the home and left all that was in the father's hand to give them and him but he NEVER stopped being a son. He began as a son, and he ended as a son.

Once a son, always a son.
No one can ever say of the man that provided seed toward their birth "you are not my father" and it be truth. The son is offspring of the father.
Once a son, always a son.
See, that is what I mean when I say you nullify the Law of God rather than fulfill it.

Under the Law, Apostasy (which is extreme treason) was punishable only by death. It was a more serious crime of the nature that no sacrifice was even able to be offered to cover it.

You have no right to make Christ out to be absolving anyone of the Law's punishments after having embraced the New Covenant. The New Covenant only pardons on the basis of repentance. But you make it pardon just for the sake of a weak and misguided kind of love which is nothing like God's true love which is always tempered by a balance of mercy and justice where possible but sometimes requires straight justice.

You seriously need to rethink what you are doing and saying. It amounts to turning Christ into an excuse for loose conduct as those at Matthew 7:21-23 who thought they had God's spirit working through them were really doing.

By the way, the prodigal son was not an apostate. He never hated his father nor sought to work against his father.
 
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GraceBro

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We receive life the moment we are born again. Salvation is the restoration of the life of God, the Holy Spirit, lost when Adam sinned in the Garden. '

"And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." 1 John 5:11-13

There are more verses, but that should be enough.

Be well and grow in grace
 
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Neostarwcc

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I finally caught up with this thread. So what I got from a majority of the replies is that eternal life starts from the moment Christians are born. Because before time began Christians were chosen by God to salvation. I guess another way to think of that is that we are born with eternal salvation because God foreknew that Christians would come to him for salvation. That's an interesting thought. I guess another possibility could be that we receive eternal life when we first believe. I think one thing is clear from the bible though. Christians will never see death. Why? Jesus promised it. So whatever happens to me after my body physically dies I will never see death. Nor will anyone here. What comforting words from a wonderful savior!
 
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Buzz_B

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”GraceBro in post 104” said:
We receive life the moment we are born again. Salvation is the restoration of the life of God, the Holy Spirit, lost when Adam sinned in the Garden. '

"And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." 1 John 5:11-13

There are more verses, but that should be enough.

Be well and grow in grace
An inescapable fact is that all, (whether they proceed to prove by their ongoing unfolding of affections and thinking to gravitate toward faith in God with its desire of righteousness or toward unbelief with its love of evil), all begin with a modicum of life from God to exist even for a short time. That modicum of life is on loan to us for a purpose. And that purpose is stated as being, “That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us..” Acts 17:27

”Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die.” 1 Corinthians 15:36

Essentially, we could say that we are given just enough life at birth to be able to choose to search for and find life. But if we do not choose to use that modicum of life for that purpose, God then lets that modicum of life fade away from us so that we essentially grow increasingly dead with each passing day. As that seed, if instead of finding fertile soil in which to be hidden for change, we remain out in the open where we are subject to the elements such as the scorching of the sun, we eventually die having that modicum of life cooked out of us and wasted.

Christ represents that fine soil to us. We are given opportunity to bury ourselves in him just as a live seed is buried in fine soil.

”Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die. And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.” 1 Corinthians 15:36-38

Tell me, when we first enter Christ as our fine soil, do we take time to die as that seed before we can be made new, or not?
 
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Buzz_B

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”mmbatlestar in post 105” said:
I finally caught up with this thread. So what I got from a majority of the replies is that eternal life starts from the moment Christians are born. Because before time began Christians were chosen by God to salvation. I guess another way to think of that is that we are born with eternal salvation because God foreknew that Christians would come to him for salvation. That's an interesting thought. I guess another possibility could be that we receive eternal life when we first believe. I think one thing is clear from the bible though. Christians will never see death. Why? Jesus promised it. So whatever happens to me after my body physically dies I will never see death. Nor will anyone here. What comforting words from a wonderful savior!

Prove what you said in the part I enlarged and emboldened.

Prove that this was before time began.

Prove that God was focused on Christians when God created Adam.

Use the Scriptures and prove what you claim.
 
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Neostarwcc

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Prove what you said in the part I enlarged and emboldened.

Prove that this was before time began.

Prove that God was focused on Christians when God created Adam.

Use the Scriptures and prove what you claim.

Ephesians 1:4 and it wasn't just me that claimed it others in this thread did as well.
 
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Buzz_B

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Ephesians 1:4 and it wasn't just me that claimed it others in this thread did as well.
Yes, I am aware that is a popular belief. Men like Darby added to the problem by using words like "eternity" at Acts of the Apostles 15:18. The word is actually, "aionos", which is in the singular grammatical number there in the Greek and so can only mean an "age." And that age of course must mean the age in which the tabernacle of David was torn down. This is why there is so many variations to how different translators express the thought, with most expressing it as meaning some form of "long ago" or "of old." But some led by their bias tend to exceed the Greek grammar and shape it to their liking.

The following NT verses all use the same singular number Greek word, "aionos":
Matthew 13:22; Matthew 13:39; Matthew 13:40; Matthew 13:49; Matthew 24:3; Matthew 28:20; Mark 4:19; Luke 1:70; Luke 16:8; Luke 20:34; Luke 20:35; John 9:32; Acts of the Apostles 3:21; Acts of the Apostles 15:18; 1 Corinthians 1:20; 1 Corinthians 2:6; 1 Corinthians 2:8; 2 Corinthians 4:4; Galatians 1:4; Ephesians 3:21; Ephesians 6:12; Hebrews 1:8; Hebrews 6:5; 2 Peter 3:18

It is a similar problem there at Ephesians 1:4. It only says that "we" were chosen in him "before the foundation of the world." The Greek word there translated as "foundation" means, "the throwing down of seed." (Compare Hebrews 11:11 where the Greek word translated as "conceive" is the same Greek word as translated "foundation" at Ephesians 1:4) Thus the founding of the world is when Adam began to throw down his seed in the form of children. Which then means that Adam's sin was before that founding of the world. And so when Adam sinned before founding the world, God planned for the rescue of Adam's seed.

Then we have the issue of Greek plural pronouns affecting that verse and how those plural pronouns ought be properly understood. The verse only really indicates that the group of ones which God would proceed onto choose, that group was what God foreordained would be in the Son to form a replacement for Adam, that through that replacement mankind could have the spiritual instruction and direction back which was lost with Adam when he sinned.

When one keeps close with the Greek grammar rules it all becomes quite simple to understand.
 
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PeaceJoyLove

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Philippians 4:3 "And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life."

Romans 8:16 "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God."

Individually this requires a great deal of clear-minded humility about whether or not we actually have that witness being born to us of God's spirit. For it is easy for ones own emotions to deceive them. But when it is real, it is undeniable to us.

As for Paul knowing that of others as Philippians 4:3 shows, this is Paul's judgment based upon his witness of the correctness of the knowledge of God's truths they speak and their demonstration of the fruitage of God's spirit by them. For those things are a sure indication. But it requires that we our self first have those things else we cannot know what to look for in others. If we lacked in those things we would just be judging by what seems good to our self.
Perception being key...to perceive a lack and striving to attain...when the truth be He fills all in all...there is no place HE is not. First this realization must come within ...as Paul said we have the mind of Christ...for a time duality within til the truth narrows down to the One that has always been...(brought back to remembrance...single of eye...
 
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DreamerOfTheHeart

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So our Lord Jesus has promised to all believers the gift of eternal life but when does that eternal life start? The moment we are born again? After we die and are given our perfect bodies on the last day? Jesus promised believers will live even though they die so does that mean that when our bodies die we still live in spirit? So that would mean that our eternal life starts from when we first come to Jesus. Maybe even from the moment we were born because Christians were chosen by God before he formed the world. But there are verses in the bible that seem to support all views. Like for example on the last day we are given eternal life to reign with Jesus during his 1,000 year reign. I just don't know. Thoughts?

Effectively, yes, but there is a sleep world, where people live in dreams.

At one juncture in Revelation, you see the martyrs crying out for justice.

So, it does appear that those crimes the sinful ones did against the martyrs, stays with them.

I am different, however, and there are many others. But all of this is hidden from the world, which runs on faithlessness and faith.

There are angels, there are other beings out there. I am not an angel, but I am immortal. I am... not from around here.

Same with my wife, and I suspect many out there.

All of whom have yet to see that.

I have my "Eve" in me. I am like a son of Adam. But, I am not a son of Adam. I know this because I see it in me. I have that of Adam which was taken from Adam to make woman.

Not something weird, like being a hermaphrodite.

I do have teenager, or woman skin: super soft, sensitive, smooth. And woman's intuition and communication skills. Just God took from Adam a lot of stuff which was his to make woman. And Adam and Eve desired each other, because they are one person made separate.

Sometimes I feel like I am in a bad episode of "Dead Like Me".

I work a job to pay the bills. Have a wife and kids. You can probably notice there is something about my face, on my avatar.

"Like for example on the last day we are given eternal life to reign with Jesus during his 1,000 year reign. I just don't know. Thoughts?"

Eternal life means eternal life.

Revelation is a heavily encrypted book so even the wicked spiritual forces can not make out where we are in it.
 
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Buzz_B

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Perception being key...to perceive a lack and striving to attain...when the truth be He fills all in all...there is no place HE is not. First this realization must come within ...as Paul said we have the mind of Christ...for a time duality within til the truth narrows down to the One that has always been...(brought back to remembrance...single of eye...
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Ephesians 4:6
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Luke 17:21
Sorry, I was tired when I first read your post and so upon coming back to review it I felt I had to take back my "I agree".

You are using an improperly translated version of the Bible for you signature quotes. In Luke 17:21 you have Jesus telling the Pharisees whom he said had wicked hearts, that the kingdom of God is in their hearts. You really need to learn how to properly use the Greek plural number pronouns.

Luke 17:21 properly translated, reads, "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst (or, in the midst of you)." Jesus is referring to himself as the king of that kingdom standing right there among them. That is why he went onto say what he did to his disciples.

You take Ephesians 4:6 as meaning what it does not mean. It is referencing God's involvement with the his congregation, saying that God is "over" all that his congregation does, God is "through" as involved in all that the congregation does, and God is "in" as the focus of all that the congregation does. This idea you have of God and Jesus literally being in us as individuals is cute but untrue. It fails the test of truth. Even the material temple building could not contain God.

Edit:
I should add that our missed understandings are the result of tiny little things we have failed to understand, the combination of which causes us to ratify other larger wrong conclusions as though they are valid when they are not. For that reason it takes a good deal of humble work at learning to see even with the help of the holy spirit.

For example, I can show many places in the Scriptures which tell us that men harden their own hearts and cause themselves to be blind. Conversely, I can show you many places which say that God hardened the hearts of a certain man or groups of men. How can both be true? They can both be true, and it takes humility on our part to learn to see how so. But we cannot exercise that humility while insisting it is all one or the other. Would we rather leave the appearance that the Bible contradicts itself untouched and laying there waiting to confuse others or would we rather find out what the answer to that seeming dilemma is? When we do look for the answer we find that the appearance of contradiction is a mere illusion caused of not having all of the details. And then we are positioned to be able to explain it for the benefit of others, a thing God wants us to do.

If we pridefully insist that we know that God says he blinds men, then that is all we are willing to see. Who then is it that is blinding us from seeing that both can be true, that men do harden and blind their own hearts and that God also does harden and blind some men. It is we that blind ourselves to seeing that through our own pride be unwilling to look past what we believe so as to broaden our understanding. It is not God's nor the Bible's fault for all the information is there for us to do so anytime we become willing to do so.

Why not loosen our grip upon having to be so right in ourselves and free ourselves to look beyond what we think we know. We have nothing to lose and much to gain by doing so.
 
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PeaceJoyLove

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You are using an improperly translated version of the Bible for you signature quotes. In Luke 17:21 you have Jesus telling the Pharisees whom he said had wicked hearts, that the kingdom of God is in their hearts. You really need to learn how to properly use the Greek plural number pronouns.

Luke 17:21 properly translated, reads, "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst (or, in the midst of you)." Jesus is referring to himself as the king of that kingdom standing right there among them. That is why he went onto say what he did to his disciples.

Young's Literal Translation Luke 17:21 nor shall they say, Lo, here; or lo, there; for lo, the reign of God is within you.'



This idea you have of God and Jesus literally being in us as individuals is cute but untrue. It fails the test of truth. Even the material temple building could not contain God.

Paul believed it to be true. He said the mystery being revealed, "Christ in you, the hope of glory." And in Galatians 1:15 But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by His grace, was pleased 16 to reveal His Son in me...

We are the temple not made with human hands...God's glory fills the temple...there is no place that God is not...

Even Jesus prayed in John 17.....That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us:

And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one;

Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am


I believe HIM...
 
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Buzz_B

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Young's Literal Translation Luke 17:21 nor shall they say, Lo, here; or lo, there; for lo, the reign of God is within you.'





Paul believed it to be true. He said the mystery being revealed, "Christ in you, the hope of glory." And in Galatians 1:15 But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by His grace, was pleased 16 to reveal His Son in me...

We are the temple not made with human hands...God's glory fills the temple...there is no place that God is not...

Even Jesus prayed in John 17.....That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us:

And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one;

Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am


I believe HIM...
OK, Believe what you want but you are violating the Greek grammar. As one who is educated in the language I cannot be convinced to follow you in your mistake.

Plural Greek Pronouns are to be interpreted as meaning the group being spoken to, not the individual as you are interpreting it.

And I informed you that Luke 17:21 was spoken to the Pharisees whose hearts surely did not have the kingdom of God in them. But, hey, somebody has to be wrong or everybody would be right. :)
 
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PeaceJoyLove

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OK, Believe what you want but you are violating the Greek grammar. As one who is educated in the language I cannot be convinced to follow you in your mistake.

Plural Greek Pronouns are to be interpreted as meaning the group being spoken to, not the individual as you are interpreting it.

And I informed you that Luke 17:21 was spoken to the Pharisees whose hearts surely did not have the kingdom of God in them. But, hey, somebody has to be wrong or everybody would be right. :)
It is okay that you accuse me. I forgive you. Even Jesus on the cross asked His Father to forgive them for not knowing what they were doing, yet they were fulfilling God's purpose just the same...

The truth of who we are is just as much individually as it is collectively...when He reveals the son we have always been, within. God is one spirit...there is no place that God is not...There is nothing that exists that didn't come from Him. To think otherwise is to rob Him of His glory or as Jesus put it "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers,"

God is just a word ... what is in that word depends upon who the one is who is defining that word; if another defines it for you, it was never yours to begin with. To me, its not an outward direction which genders to confusion of face; its an inward direction, that causes an outward expression of His perfect love...as He loves us, impartially. Even Jesus said, "You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one."
 
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