When does our eternal life start?

aiki

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The verses that mention "eternal" can be explained in different ways that accommodate this theory. Essentially it is not as cut and dry as the eternal punishment camp sees it, and historic Judaism would not support it either,

That there are alternative interpretations to the word "eternal" doesn't mean they are necessarily good interpretations. In my many discussions with people about annihilationism, I have never yet encountered an argument for it that really properly handled Scripture.

ECT (eternal, conscious torment) is a very cut-and-dried doctrine, easily and clearly supported by Scripture.

A careful look at the OT reveals that the Jews understood that there was the hell of torment of which Jesus spoke so descriptively. (Isaiah 33:14; Isaiah 66:15-16; Isaiah 66:24, etc.)
 
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joshua 1 9

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So our Lord Jesus has promised to all believers the gift of eternal life but when does that eternal life start? The moment we are born again? After we die and are given our perfect bodies on the last day? Jesus promised believers will live even though they die so does that mean that when our bodies die we still live in spirit? So that would mean that our eternal life starts from when we first come to Jesus. Maybe even from the moment we were born because Christians were chosen by God before he formed the world. But there are verses in the bible that seem to support all views. Like for example on the last day we are given eternal life to reign with Jesus during his 1,000 year reign. I just don't know. Thoughts?
Yes the resurrection power of God is working in our lives as soon as we are born again of the Spirit. That is why we believe in the resurrection because that power is already at work in us to perfect us so that we can be without spot, blemish or wrinkle. Jesus said: "According to your faith let it be done to you" People that do not have faith in eternal life or the resurrection will not receive because that power is not at work in them. If they do not have faith to believe God can set them free then they will not be free.
 
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CallofChrist

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but you did say, aiki,: "All people, saved or not, are immortal from conception... the soul of the person never ceases to exist"
that is only half of what immortality or eternal life will be.

Eternal life isn't a bodiless soul, so saying we are immortal from conception is a bit of a misnomer.
 
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joshua 1 9

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All people, saved or not, are immortal from conception. Those who are saved go on to eternal life and those who are not go on to the "second death" which is eternal, conscious torment in hell. In the matter of a person's eternal destiny, "life" in Scripture is representative of all things good, of perfect well-being, and "death" is representative of the loss of all those good things and of well-being. In both cases, however, the soul of the person never ceases to exist.
Hell (Geenna) is a Greek word and is not even found in the Hebrew Bible. The word in the Hebrew is Sheol. The word we need to look at is Shamad & Shachath to exterminate or destory.

Even if you were to pick one word in the Hebrew and spend your whole life trying to understand that one word. At the end you would still only be beginning to understand what just one Hebrew word means. Because God is eternal there really is no beginning or end. He is the alpha and the omege, He knows the end from the beginning. But God is outside of time.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Hell (Geenna) is a Greek word and is not even found in the Hebrew Bible. The word in the Hebrew is Sheol. The word we need to look at is Shamad & Shachath to exterminate or destory.

Even if you were to pick one word in the Hebrew and spend your whole life trying to understand that one word. At the end you would still only be beginning to understand what just one Hebrew word means. Because God is eternal there really is no beginning or end. He is the alpha and the omege, He knows the end from the beginning. But God is outside of time.
Animals have souls and they do perish. The Spirit of God is eternal and you have to be born again to receive eternal life. God well destroy all those who did not receive eternal life from Him. There will be animals in Heaven because of the Spirit of those who are born again of God. Our pets receive eternal life from us if we are born again of God of the spirit.
 
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Monna

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Noone has shown us whether or not there are differences between 'eternal' and 'everlasting' in the original languages. Or if so, I've missed it.

Eternal life starts the moment you're conceived.

But others seem to think that "eternal" life is life without beginning or end, (and I find this supported in dictionaries), so if this is so, eternal life didn't start the moment we are conceived. Also it wouldn't be consistent with the scriptures saying that we get eternal life through faith.

So maybe the difference is of another sort. Everlasting life, perhaps refers the 'life' we have 'naturally' and even includes the 'soul' that continues after physical death; eternal life is the kind of life God has. Even though we are alive, even as sinners, we are "dead" in sin - or as some would have it, spiritually dead. So eternal life is the life we get through and from God, who had no beginning. Thus our eternal life, is not a life that is unique and separate to every individual (as we receive at natural birth), but God's own life - we become really, literally, partakers of HIS life. We are alive in him and He in us. We continue to have our birth-given (spiritually dead) life at least until our physical death, but we are given His life as part of our salvation. Our own 'spiritually dead' struggles constantly with our received Godlife until our physical death.

This would also (for me) explain the difference in quality of life between everlasting and eternal.

Any thoughts? I have no doubt there will be some who object. So bring on the objections! :) Help!
 
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joshua 1 9

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I didn't say it was.
You said the soul was immortal. The word your looking for in the Bible is Breath Ruach (Spirit) then man becomes a living soul: chay nephesh. Adam had the breath of life and that is what made him eternal. Gentiles are adopted into the family of God when they are born again of God.
 
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joshua 1 9

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God is outside of time. There is no beginning and there is no end for God. He can go into our past He can choose to look forward into our future. Even we can have visions or dreams about our future. Gerald Schroeder has the PhD from MIT, so he is someone that understands this. Also he studies Kabbalah. Gerald Schroeder - Articles - Age of the Universe
 
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joshua 1 9

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“AND MAN BECAME A LIVING SOUL.”

So now bear it in mind that MAN IS A SOUL
Man is not just a soul he is a living soul because of the synergy between the breath of God and chay or life. He is a living soul. First you have to understand the ancient Hebrew words then you have to understand the synergy when the two words are joined together.
 
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joshua 1 9

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God gave us that marriage of our bodies to his breath of life.
Yes and the issue with marriage today is that so few people understand what marriage is. Also so many want a counterfeit or a fake marriage. Because Satan always tries to counterfeit or copy God.
 
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aiki

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Hell (Geenna) is a Greek word and is not even found in the Hebrew Bible. The word in the Hebrew is Sheol. The word we need to look at is Shamad & Shachath to exterminate or destory.

Actually, "Hell" is rendered variously in Scripture as "Hades," "Sheol," and "Gehenna." The Bible also speaks of Tartarus, the Pit, and the Lake of Fire. The New Testament was written in Koine Greek, not Hebrew. I don't "need" to look at either "shamad" or "shachath." You go ahead, though. Have fun!

Even if you were to pick one word in the Hebrew and spend your whole life trying to understand that one word. At the end you would still only be beginning to understand what just one Hebrew word means. Because God is eternal there really is no beginning or end. He is the alpha and the omege, He knows the end from the beginning. But God is outside of time.

Uh huh. Well, the Jews seem to understand each other pretty well despite the unending complexity of meaning you say there is in every word of Hebrew. Funny that, eh? You'd think they'd be constantly unsure of what the other person meant if what you say is true.

You said the soul was immortal.

Yes, and? The poster I was responding to had asserted I had said something else. I was pointing out that he/she was mistaken.

The word your looking for in the Bible is Breath Ruach (Spirit)

Am I looking for this word? Really? I had no idea I was looking for any word at all.

Adam had the breath of life and that is what made him eternal. Gentiles are adopted into the family of God when they are born again of God.

Yes...I am aware of these things.
 
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mkgal1

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So our Lord Jesus has promised to all believers the gift of eternal life but when does that eternal life start? The moment we are born again? After we die and are given our perfect bodies on the last day? Jesus promised believers will live even though they die so does that mean that when our bodies die we still live in spirit? So that would mean that our eternal life starts from when we first come to Jesus. Maybe even from the moment we were born because Christians were chosen by God before he formed the world. But there are verses in the bible that seem to support all views. Like for example on the last day we are given eternal life to reign with Jesus during his 1,000 year reign. I just don't know. Thoughts?
I haven't read all the other responses.....but to me, thinking of "eternal life" as synonymous with the Kingdom of God makes sense. These two passage seems to be the best framework. :

"God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son"~1 John 5:11

"For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive."~1st Corinthians 15:22



Its the way Adam and Eve and all the human race could have been.
I agree with the Orthodox theology that Christ redeemed Adam and Eve:

------->The teaching of the harrowing or the ransacking of hell is not confined to East. It is a catholic (universal) belief of the early Church. Western Christians confess it every time they recite the Apostles Creed:

He suffered under Pontius Pilate,

Crucified, died, and was buried,

He descended to the dead,

On the third day he rose again.

Because the Apostles’ Creed is part of both the Roman Catholic and the Protestant traditions, Reformed Christians should also have no problem affirming Christ’s descent into hell. Calvin in his Institutes (2.16.8) referred to it as “a matter of no small moment in bringing about redemption.”

Looking to the right and left of the resurrection icon we see Christ grabbing hold of our ancestral parents Adam and Eve pulling them out of the tombs. If one looks closely we that it is Christ grabbing hold of them; we do not see them grabbing hold of Christ. This shows our salvation being dependent on Christ’s power, not on our strength. In the background we see a crowd of people, some having halos around their heads and others without a halo. The halos signify their being saints, that is, the perfection of their salvation. A hymn in the Great Friday Vespers has this stanza:

When You, the Redeemer of all, were placed in a new Tomb for us all, Hades, the respecter of none, crouched when he saw You. The bars were broken, the gates were shattered, the graves were opened, and the dead arose. Then Adam, gratefully rejoicing, cried out to You: “Glory to Your condescension, O Merciful God.”~Christ is Risen from the Grave! Trampling Down Death by Death! - Orthodox Reformed Bridge
 
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joshua 1 9

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Now that 's an interesting verse. It says: "abides in death." This blocks the argument in annihilation completely.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

These words of Jesus indicate immediate. The Christians has already passed the judgment. For some this means by passing the judgment after death. I would agree. All who appear at the white throne judgment are judged guilty and get sentenced.
One pastor talks about how they will plead their case but their glass alibis will shatter like glass before the throne. We will be judged before the throne of Christ for our rewards or crowns but the elders will throw their crowns at His feet because we are not worthy apart from the sacrifice that He made for us as calvery.

God has sent messengers to impress upon me MANY times that He is a God of absolute and perfect justice. His scales are perfectly balanced. Apart from Christ everyone receive exactly what they deserve according to how they lived.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Koine Greek, not Hebrew.
NOTHING has been added to what we receive from Moses. So I always like to go back to see what Moses shows us in the Hebrews. The Greek is actually a step away from the Hebrew. Right now I am very busy to understand the Hebrew. Even if I spent the rest of my life to study one word in the end I would only be starting to understand the meaning of that word. For example, the first word in the Bible: Beginning (reshith) many books could be written. Later on in the Bible beginning is use to mean first fruits. The beginning is not when the seed is planted or takes root. The beginning is when the tree begins to produce fruit and is able to reproduce itself. This is a point of being whole and mature.
 
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Blade

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As I see it the Father only creates life. What do we think happen to all those before Christ? One can get lost here and jump right in to speculation. As in "demons". What about those that fell left there 1st estate and joined with women and had giants? Those "children" so to speak were never meant to be. And we know demons seek a host.

Anyway everything the Father makes is life. Right now all are living forever so to speak. We that live born from above are not judged.. we have been already. Those that do not know Christ .. no great white throne judgment yet. Now what really happens to those (GOD FORBID) well He made them He loves them. Yet a place was made for Satan and his angels. Now this is forever or not...we get no say. Its a decision He never left up for us to make, nor will He ever ask us. We will judge angels but MAN...the one that made them is the one and only one that gets the 1st and last say.

I agree.. the moment you were born. Yet.. He knew you before you were ever born.. wow..we can get lost here.
 
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Monna

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God is outside of time. There is no beginning and there is no end for God. He can go into our past He can choose to look forward into our future. Even we can have visions or dreams about our future. Gerald Schroeder has the PhD from MIT, so he is someone that understands this. Also he studies Kabbalah.

Am not sure what you're getting at. I don't disagree with anything you say here. I have no problem with God being outside time. He doesn't go forward or back. He's already there. If he is outside time, he doesn't time-travel.

But our "body-life" does have a beginning, reckoned from our perspective. Otherwise you are intimating that our life has also been "from eternity to eternity." Is that what you're getting at? Please clarify.

Gerald Schroeder has the PhD from MIT, so he is someone that understands this. Also he studies Kabbalah.

Good for Schroeder. That he has a PhD in nuclear physics from MIT doesn't in itself mean he's right. Should I believe everyone with a PhD in nuclear physics from MIT simply because of his or her academic qualifications? I have no ag with Schroeder (and I have read a little about and by him), but I'm sorry to say that I know enought PhDs from my professional life who I wouldn't trust on the topic of God. What I don't find in any record on Gerald Scroeder is his view or beliefs about Jesus Christ.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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1 Timothy 6:16 says Christ alone has immorality. This means that in order to have Eternal Life, we need to abide in the Son. For Scripture says, he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12).

With the exception of those who worship the beast in the future (See Revelation 13:8, and Revelation 17:8), every person's name was written in the Lamb's book of life based upon the promise and fulfillment of Christ's sacrifice. So when a baby dies, they are saved by Christ's sacrifice because they are innocent. Meaning, with the exception of those who will worship the beast, all babies are in a saved state. But when a baby grows up and they fall into sin and unbelief, their name is then blotted out of the Lamb's book of life. When this happens, they need to then restore their name back into the book of life by being born again spiritually by accepting Jesus as their Savior, and asking Him to forgive them of their sin and believing that He died and was risen on their behalf. They have eternal life by only abiding in the One (Jesus) who is the way the truth and the life (John 14:6). For no man can come unto the Father, but by Jesus. He is the only way.

Unfortunately for many, they will miss eternal life at sometime after they accept Christ. Some will get caught in the new age Christian religion. Some will deny Jesus is God. Some will get caught up into chasing after money and the things of this world. Others will reason with themselves that they are saved on some level even if they may sin (Whether it be a little bit of sin or a lot of sin). For the unprofitable servant will be cast into outer darkness. Believers have to be fruitful and live holy as a part of abiding in Christ. For it is Christ our Lord who does the good work within our lives. For Jesus says in John 15, that if we abide in Him, we will bear much fruit. He also says that if we do not bear fruit, we will be cut off and cast into the fire. So hard are these words to accept by many in the church today. Jesus says, if you will enter into life (eternal life by abiding in Him), keep the commandments.

Anyways, I believe eternal life (in the sense that we will live forever) will start for the believer once there are no more tests for him anymore and death will no longer be a threat to him. This takes place on the New Earth after the Millennium and after the Judgment.

But the Eternal Life we should focus should not be a thing or a place, or a state or a particular point in time; Eternal Life is Jesus Christ, and He is the One in whom we should love and focus upon (Who is the source of all life, love, happiness, and goodness for all time).

I hope this helps;
And may God bless everyone here.
 
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So our Lord Jesus has promised to all believers the gift of eternal life but when does that eternal life start? The moment we are born again? After we die and are given our perfect bodies on the last day? Jesus promised believers will live even though they die so does that mean that when our bodies die we still live in spirit? So that would mean that our eternal life starts from when we first come to Jesus. Maybe even from the moment we were born because Christians were chosen by God before he formed the world. But there are verses in the bible that seem to support all views. Like for example on the last day we are given eternal life to reign with Jesus during his 1,000 year reign. I just don't know. Thoughts?


The mysteries of God are wonderful! I think all of the above are true in some fashion. God knew that we as believers would accept his son before we were even born. But How is this possible with the existence of free will? If God knew who would accept or reject Christ, how does that allow us to make decisions of our own so that we can wholly accept and submit to Him with our own will? One idea is that God saw all the outcomes beforehand, and therefore he knew logically what would happen. But what I just thought of (and what makes most sense to me) is that God saw/sees all the outcomes in real time.... At any time! After all, a day is like a thousand years for Him, and a thousand years is like a day. I think that He sees you actively accepting Christ currently on a day to day basis just as he saw when you first prayed the sinner's prayer. And he sees you in the future, but in real time also? Past. Present. Future. That being said, your eternal body continues as he blesses it through Christ while you continually feed on Him.
 
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Buzz_B

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John 10:10 “The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.” [KJV]

1 Timothy 4:8 For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come. [KJV]

John 6:63 “the spirit it is that is giving life; the flesh doth not profit anything; the sayings that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life” [YLT]

We are all in reality sustained to life by the one spirit of God. And that spirit which sustains life to us is always the same spirit. It will be the same one spirit into eternity.

That one spirit of God which sustains our life is different from a man's individual spirit which God uses to see what is in a man's mind and heart. The word, “spirit”, means different things in different Bible texts and that is where confusion comes in for so many. There is God's spirit which gives and sustains life's basic existence and then God also has a demeanor to his choice of ways ( a spirit) which promote quality of life. The sum total of that spirit in the form of demeanor is called, “righteousness.” And that righteousness results from the balance of love, mercy, and justice with which God tempers all of his ways, he having the perfect knowledge, wisdom, and discernment combined with perfect self-regulation to maintain his righteousness perfect.

And so we could correctly say that righteousness is the sum total of sound spirits in God or in us which produce good things. This is why we see the Bible often speaking of various unsound spirits:

Numbers 5:14 “And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled”

Job 20:3 “I have heard the check of my reproach, and the spirit of my understanding causeth me to answer.”

Ecclesiastes 10:4 “If the spirit of the ruler rise up against theep, leave not thy place; for yielding pacifieth great offences.”

Hosea 4:12 “My people ask counsel at their stocks, and their staff declareth unto them: for the spirit of whoredoms[a form of lust] hath caused them to err, and they have gone a whoring from under their God.”

Notice the many spirits here, all of which or any one of which can be said to be of God in the sense that they please God so that God blesses them as gifts in the one having them:

Isaiah 11:2 “And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD”

Many of us think in terms of there being only one kind of spirit. But there are many kinds of spirits for the word is kind of a catch-all word by virtue of the fact that it most basically means something invisible to the naked eye but shown as there by its effect (the work it produces as proof it is there) and is used in just that many ways in our Bibles.

From Webster's New World Dictionary:

spirit
ME < OFr espirit < L spiritus, breath, courage, vigor, the soul, life, in LL(Ec), spirit < spirare, to blow, breathe < IE base * (s)peis-, to blow > (prob.) Norw fisa, to puff, blow, OSlav piskati, to pipe, whistle

1.
a)
the life principle, esp. in human beings, originally regarded as inherent in the breath or as infused by a deity
b) SOUL (sense 1)

2. the thinking, motivating, feeling part of a person, often as distinguished from the body; mind; intelligence

3. [also S-] life, will, consciousness, thought, etc., regarded as separate from matter

4. a supernatural being, esp. one thought of as haunting or possessing a person, house, etc., as a ghost, or as inhabiting a certain region, being of a certain good (or evil) character, etc., as an angel, demon, fairy, or elf

5. an individual person or personality thought of as showing or having some specific quality [the brave spirits who pioneered]

6. [usually pl.] frame of mind; disposition; mood; temper [in high spirits]

7. vivacity, courage, vigor, enthusiasm, etc. [to answer with spirit]

8. enthusiasm and loyalty [school spirit]

9. real meaning; true intention [to follow the spirit if not the letter of the law]

10. a pervading animating principle, essential or characteristic quality, or prevailing tendency or attitude [the spirit of the Renaissance]

11. a divine animating influence or inspiration

12. [usually pl.] strong alcoholic liquor produced by distillation

13. Obs.
a) any of certain substances or fluids thought of as permeating organs of the body
b) Alchemy sulfur, sal ammoniac, mercury, or orpiment

14. [often pl.] Chem.
a) any liquid produced by distillation, as from wood, shale, etc. [spirits of turpentine]
b) ALCOHOL (sense 1)

15. Dyeing a solution of a tin salt, etc., used as a mordant

16. [often pl.] Pharmacy an alcoholic solution of a volatile or essential substance [spirits of camphor]

vt.

1. to inspirit, animate, encourage, cheer, etc.: (often with up)

2. to carry (away, off, etc.) secretly and swiftly, or in some mysterious way

adj.

1.
a)
of spirits or spiritualism
b) believed to be manifested by spirits [spirit rapping]

2. operating by the burning of alcohol [a spirit lamp]

out of spirits
sad; depressed

End Webster's quote.

Our individual spirit when spoken of, means, our mental and emotional inclinations grown in us and by us as a product of our having been created capable of free thinking as is God. We are created in the image of God and so like God we can manifest a spirit of our own, just as he. And it is this spirit that God is able to use to know who we are in our minds and our hearts but it is not that spirit which gave us life, for that was God's one spirit which gave us life and sustains our life to exist. But if we would have the full benefit of the life that God gives, we must conform our self produced spirit willingly to his by our power of choice. Then we can tune in on his spiritual demeanor and learn his righteousness. And it is our doing that which invokes his faithfulness toward us in all of its fulness so that we can rest assured of salvation. Otherwise, "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Hebrews 10:31

Until we understand this about that word, spirit, we easily develop many false assumptions concerning what the Scriptures speak to us.
 
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Andrew Jeremiah

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So our Lord Jesus has promised to all believers the gift of eternal life but when does that eternal life start? The moment we are born again? After we die and are given our perfect bodies on the last day? Jesus promised believers will live even though they die so does that mean that when our bodies die we still live in spirit? So that would mean that our eternal life starts from when we first come to Jesus. Maybe even from the moment we were born because Christians were chosen by God before he formed the world. But there are verses in the bible that seem to support all views. Like for example on the last day we are given eternal life to reign with Jesus during his 1,000 year reign. I just don't know. Thoughts?
Hello. ...and if I may..
Eternal life for those whose names are written in the book of the life of the lamb slain from [BEFORE] the foundation (creation) of the world, began the "moment" God the Father contemplated us in His Mind. We began in Trinity, and we shall end up BACK into Trinity - but with a body.

We [named in the book of life], from God's eternal perspective God has ever seen us, His Elect people as saved, holy, sin-less, and most importantly, through the finished work of our High Priest (Jn. 17) which even in the Mind of God has already happen when it had happened - as covered. But from our perspective of TIME we are still in this body of this death and still suffer the effects of sin upon us - and if your name is not in the book of life of the lamb, the effect of the Holy Spirit upon "you" in response to the non-elect, non-covenant, never-to-be-saved, the unforgiven sin they are judged against - He kills.
 
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