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Featured When does Lucifer ascend to heaven?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by tranquil, Mar 21, 2019.

  1. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

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    When does Lucifer ascend to heaven? Isaiah 14:10-20
    As shown in Revelation.
     
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  2. Ttalkkugjil

    Ttalkkugjil Spiritual Director

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    Does he ascend to heaven? I know he has gotten cast out of heaven.
     
  3. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

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    Next Wednesday.
     
  4. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Well-Known Member

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    What if that passage in Isaiah is about the Babylonian king alone, and not Satan? Will it matter?
     
  5. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

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    Futurists only please.
     
  6. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

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    When does Lucifer fall from heaven?
    As shown in Revelation.
     
  7. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    I believe Isaiah 14 is when he first rebelled and is past. I don't know about when the war in Heaven is suppose to happen.
     
  8. tranquil

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    You don't think 'Lucifer' has any reference point in Revelation?

    I didn't mention anything about a war in heaven, but the war in heaven occurs in Revelation 12, right?
     
  9. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

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    Here is Isaiah 14

    28In the year that King Ahaz died came this oracle:

    29Rejoice not, O Philistia, all of you,
    that the rod that struck you is broken,
    for from the serpent’s root will come forth an adder,
    and its fruit will be a flying fiery serpent.
    30And the firstborn of the poor will graze,
    and the needy lie down in safety;
    but I will kill your root with famine,
    and your remnant it will slay.
    31Wail, O gate; cry out, O city;
    melt in fear, O Philistia, all of you!
    For smoke comes out of the north,
    and there is no straggler in his ranks.

    32What will one answer the messengers of the nation?
    The Lord has founded Zion,
    and in her the afflicted of his people find refuge
    .
    ”​

    Rev 12
    7Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, 8but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven.
    9And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. 10And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothersb has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.
     
  10. Anto9us

    Anto9us Neo-Middle

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  11. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

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    Isa 14
    12How you are fallen from heaven,
    O Day Star, son of Dawn!
    How you are cut down to the ground,
    you who laid the nations low
    !
    13You said in your heart,
    ‘I will ascend to heaven;
    above the stars of God
    I will set my throne on high;
    I will sit on the mount of assembly
    in the far reaches of the north;c
    14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
    I will make myself like the Most High.’
    15But you are brought down to Sheol,
    to the far reaches of the pit.
    16Those who see you will stare at you
    and ponder over you:
    ‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
    who shook kingdoms,​

    Rev 12
    7Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, 8but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 9And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. 10And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothersb has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.​
     
  12. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

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  13. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The problem is that many people believe Lucifer is a created being that he either goes up or down from heaven. That is not a biblical case but it will be a long bible study to prove this. Not sure I want to do that here.
     
  14. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

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    It wanted to ascend above the heavens like the Most High God, but it backfired. Now, it is trying to convince us that hell is excellent - because that is where it is going. It won't be in any heavens; it will be/has been kicked out of all heavens. It is trying to project its own idea of heaven on the foundation (earth).
     
  15. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    He has access to the Heavenly throne room in the book of Job . However Lord Jesus said He saw Satan fall like lightening..
    Luke 10:18 He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
     
  16. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

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    Doesn't this passage from Luke 10 mirror the 2 witnesses (2nd woe) which leads up to the 'founding of Zion'/ 7th Trumpet?

    After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them on ahead of him, two by two, into every town and place where he himself was about to go.

    2 And he said to them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few. Therefore pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest. 3 Go your way; behold, I am sending you out as lambs in the midst of wolves. 4 Carry no moneybag, no knapsack, no sandals, and greet no one on the road.

    5 Whatever house you enter, first say, ‘Peace be to this house!’ 6 And if a son of peace is there, your peace will rest upon him. But if not, it will return to you. 7 And remain in the same house, eating and drinking what they provide, for the laborer deserves his wages. Do not go from house to house. 8 Whenever you enter a town and they receive you, eat what is set before you. 9 Heal the sick in it and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’ 10 But whenever you enter a town and they do not receive you, go into its streets and say, 11 ‘Even the dust of your town that clings to our feet we wipe off against you. Nevertheless know this, that the kingdom of God has come near.’ 12 I tell you, it will be more bearable on that day for Sodom than for that town.

    13 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. 14 But it will be more bearable in the judgment for Tyre and Sidon than for you. 15 And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You shall be brought down to Hades.

    16 “The one who hears you hears me, and the one who rejects you rejects me, and the one who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

    17 The seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!” 18 And he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

    19 Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you. 20 Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”

    21 In that same hour he rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will.

    22 All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, or who the Father is except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”

    23 Then turning to the disciples he said privately, “Blessed are the eyes that see what you see! 24 For I tell you that many prophets and kings desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.”

     
  17. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

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    Don't bother. The text says that "Lucifer" is just the king of 'Babylon'.
     
  18. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No, there is much deeper than that which explain why you are asking us when did Lucifer ascend into heaven. I KNOW that is not the case!
     
  19. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

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    We don't need a long Bible study about it.

    When does (what is translated as) 'Lucifer' ascend to heaven? As shown in Revelation.

    The 'king of Babylon' ('Lucifer') that 'ascends to heaven' and 'sets his throne on high' and 'makes himself like the most high' does this at the 6th Seal through the 1st Trumpet. The start of the Day of the Lord's wrath, Revelation 6:12-17

    2 Thessalonians 2
    Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

    3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.

     
  20. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Here is my biblical position. And no it is not the long bible study I mentioned.

    The "Lucifer" that weakens or discomfits the nations is the messenger of the church who has the spirit of Antichrist to usurp God's word and rule by his own means. He's the sinful man, or as 2nd Thessalonians calls him, the man of lawlessness. The ruler who doesn't obey God's law because he has the spirit of disobedience.

    2nd Thessalonians 2:3-4
    • "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    • Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

    A falling away or separation "from" the truth of God's law to believe Satan's lies concerning what God said. Just as Adam and Eve did in the garden. Here is your Lucifer or falling star. It's the man who sins. The man not of righteousness, but of sin. The messenger (not an angel) of the kingdom of heaven who has this spirit of disobedience to believe whatever he wants. You've all seen the Pastors and Ministers of the church like Joel Osteen, who have gone astray teaching for doctrines of God the doctrines of men. This is no new thing.

    Lucifer is a word meaning bright star, and is further defined by the additional pseudonym of "Son of the morning," or Son of light or dawn which is indicating God's people. God's people are called sons of the dawn because they represent Christ (Revelation 22:16). In this language and context of the king of Babylon had fallen from heaven, it is symbolic of a once fallen bright star. I found the stars in Scripture are symbols representing the sons (or children, which is the same Hebrew word) of God. In other words, his corporate congregation. In the days of Isaiah this was the congregation of Israel, in the New Testament, it is the New Testament congregation of Israel, the Church! Corporately we are all stars or messengers (not angels) of God and just as the children of Israel was subject to falling, so the New Testament children of God are subject to falling. Consider God's very clear declaration of that in Revelation:

    Revelation 2:1
    • "Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;"
    The Lord addresses this thing to the messenger (not angel) of the church of Ephesus and has a severe warning to the messenger. Please remember that in chapter one Christ Himself interprets the 7 stars of the Church as the 7 messengers of the church. With this context in mind, notice carefully what the Lord says:

    Revelation 2:4-5
    • "[Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
    • Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent."
    Once again, pay close attention to what the Lord specifically interpreted the candlestick as. He said it represented the church! Thus allowing the Scriptures to Interpret themselves, Christ has said to this fallen star, to repent and remember from where he had fallen or else God would remove his church out of its place. These aren't my words, this is what God specifically said in order that we might discern exactly what He is talking about. Of course, if we will receive it. Fallen stars don't represent literal angels, they represent messengers of God's house who are people of the congregation! The warfare in the kingdom of heaven was not the 3rd heaven, the paradise where God lives, it is in the kingdom of heaven represented on earth, God's congregation! The Kingdom of heaven which God spoke so many parables (Matthew 22:2-14) about during his ministry.

    In this scenario of the ruler of Babylon being called Lucifer, a star that had fallen from heaven, it points to the stars or messenger of the Lord's congregation, just as it does in Revelation!. Indeed, Babylon is a synonym for the unfaithful church as we've seen before and so it follows perfectly that this King of Babylon would be called a fallen star, and that Babylon would be used to represent the fallen church led by the sinful man, or man of sin ruled over by Satan. Get it? Therefore, the language of Isaiah 14 is so framed to apply to the Babylonian king as he represents a shadow to reveal through him the great fall and destruction of those led by the spirit of Antichrist. A fall of God's congregation at the time of Christ (Zechariah 14), and a fall near the second coming of Christ when the sinful man dares to rule in God's house "as if" he were God (2nd Thess 2, Revelation 18).
     
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