When do you think the Church got corrupted?

Not David

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I used to think only Muslims and Mormons thought that but I realized some Christians have this idea. Even I used to think the reason for the Reformation was that the Church became corrupted. So I want to know the date and reason that damaged the Church.
 
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dzheremi

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It didn't. That kind of thinking leads to all kinds of innovations in the name of righting the ship, and then before you know it they are so far unmoored from traditional Christianity that you end up with blatant frauds and heresies like Islam and Mormonism that deceive millions.

There is a difference between having problems (which all churches do) and actually becoming irrecoverably corrupt such that you have to be completely replaced by something else (Islam, Mormonism, etc.), which is the false restorationist narrative. Christ our God said that the gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church, and I for one do not believe for a second that He was lying or wasting His words.
 
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ewq1938

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2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Pehaps it started taking place from the very beggining as Jesus and Paul warned us. Satan does not want us to know God's WORD or can we know it without God's Spirit.

MATTHEW 7:15
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

ACT 20:29, For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

2 THESSALONIANS 2:5-8
[5], Remember you not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
[6], And now you know what withholds that he might be revealed in his time.
[7], For the mystery of iniquity does already work: only he who now lets will let, until he be taken out of the way.
[8], And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2 PETER 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privately shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
 
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Dave-W

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When? Perhaps 135 ad when the final separation of church and synagogue occurred.

Perhaps 325 ad when the Nazarenes (Jewish Christians) were excluded from the first Nicea conference for being too Jewish.

Either way, reconciliation cannot take place until that wrong is righted.
 
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Not David

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2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
That doesn't answer my question. There is a difference between having some false teachers and having an entire organization being deceiving.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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That doesn't answer my question. There is a difference between having some false teachers and having an entire organization being deceiving.

Dont they go hand in hand? It is the false teachers that do the decieving.
 
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Not David

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Pehaps from the very beggining as Jesus and Paul warned us. Satan does not want us to know God's WORD or can we know it without God's Spirit.

MATTHEW 7:15
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

ACT 20:29, For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

2 THESSALONIANS 2:5-8
[5], Remember you not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
[6], And now you know what withholds that he might be revealed in his time.
[7], For the mystery of iniquity does already work: only he who now lets will let, until he be taken out of the way.
[8], And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

2 PETER 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privately shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
Thanks, however, I mentioned in a previous comment that there is a difference between having some bad teachers and being corrupted.
 
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Der Alte

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<DZ>It didn't. That kind of thinking leads to all kinds of innovations in the name of righting the ship, and then before you know it they are so far unmoored from traditional Christianity that you end up with blatant frauds and heresies like Islam and Mormonism that deceive millions.
There is a difference between having problems (which all churches do) and actually becoming irrecoverably corrupt such that you have to be completely replaced by something else (Islam, Mormonism, etc.), which is the false restorationist narrative. Christ our God said that the gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church, and I for one do not believe for a second that He was lying or wasting His words
.<end>
What he said. :oldthumbsup:
 
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daydreamer40

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When the scholars and theologians came along after the Apostles had written their letters. They mugged the true church, pouring over the scriptures with their natural reasoning, forever seeking some new understanding of what was written, some hidden nugget they could make a doctrine out of and insist everyone must follow it or be condemned to hell.

I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.’c]'>[c]

20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 1Cor1:19&20

And so it was with me, brothers and sisters. When I came to you, I did not come with eloquence or human wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God.a]'>[a] 2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3 I came to you in weakness with great fear and trembling. 4 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power. 1Cor2:1-5

Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things – and the things that are not – to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 1Cor1:26-29

The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise are futile 1Cor3:20
 
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Not David

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When? Perhaps 135 ad when the final separation of church and synagogue occurred.

Perhaps 325 ad when the Nazarenes (Jewish Christians) were excluded from the first Nicea conference for being too Jewish.

Either way, reconciliation cannot take place until that wrong is righted.
How do you think reconciliation can happen?
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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When the scholars and theologians came along after the Apostles had written their letters. They mugged the true church, pouring over the scriptures with their natural reasoning, forever seeking some new understanding of what was written, some hidden nugget they could make a doctrine out of and insist everyone must follow it or be condemned to hell.

I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.’c]'>[c]

20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 1Cor1:19&20

And so it was with me, brothers and sisters. When I came to you, I did not come with eloquence or human wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God.a]'>[a] 2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3 I came to you in weakness with great fear and trembling. 4 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power. 1Cor2:1-5
Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things – and the things that are not – to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 1Cor1:26-29

The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise are futile 1Cor3:20

Like Paul?
 
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Der Alte

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When? Perhaps 135 ad when the final separation of church and synagogue occurred.
Perhaps 325 ad when the Nazarenes (Jewish Christians) were excluded from the first Nicea conference for being too Jewish.

Either way, reconciliation cannot take place until that wrong is righted.
Evidence? Documentation? Substantiation?
 
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daydreamer40

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Like Paul?
No, Paul knew his natural mind(which would have been excellent) could not lead him into spiritual understanding, only the Holy Spirit could, as Jesus told his disciples. The Holy Spirit would lead them into truth
 
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redleghunter

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I used to think only Muslims and Mormons thought that but I realized some Christians have this idea. Even I used to think the reason for the Reformation was that the Church became corrupted. So I want to know the date and reason that damaged the Church.
Jesus said beware of false prophets in Matthew 7:15

The apostle John said the spirit of antichrist was already at work in his time (1 John 4:3).

In Acts 20:29 the apostle Paul said upon his departure savage wolves would come in among them .

The entire second chapter of 2 Peter 2 is about false prophets/teachers.

Finally, one only has to turn to Revelation chapters 2 and 3 to see this in action.

Yet we know this because we have the Holy Spirit inspired Holy Scriptures. Knowing all Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

And which as the apostle Paul solemnly charged bishop Timothy "preach the word." (2 Timothy 4:1-2)

Which in light of the above Paul warned:

2 Timothy 4:

3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. 5But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
 
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I used to think only Muslims and Mormons thought that but I realized some Christians have this idea. Even I used to think the reason for the Reformation was that the Church became corrupted. So I want to know the date and reason that damaged the Church.
With Judas.

But the problem with the idea of the Mormons and those who try to pin a date on when corruption entered the Church is that we are all sinful people and our presence is corrupting. What should be asked is, despite all the inevitable corruption how is it this thing of the Church has survived almost 2000 years. There is a miracle in that. That's the real amazing thing. All the corruption and still the Church cleans up nicely.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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No, Paul knew his natural mind(which would have been excellent) could not lead him into spiritual understanding, only the Holy Spirit could, as Jesus told his disciples. The Holy Spirit would lead them into truth

Paul was a man clearly taught in the theological tradition of Judaism which built him up for his future as a Christian and understanding of Christ. He was perhaps the Church's very first theologian, working out what Christ's work actually meant for us.

You seem to condemn Philosophers and Theologians (without any specific people or allegations in mind) and I think you should include Paul in that category for he does the very thing you seem to object to.

My biggest problem with your post is that you seem to think you are the exception, that everyone else was wrong but you are right.
 
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daydreamer40

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Paul was a man clearly taught in the theological tradition of Judaism which built him up for his future as a Christian and understanding of Christ. He was perhaps the Church's very first theologian, working out what Christ's work actually meant for us.

You seem to condemn Philosophers and Theologians (without any specific people or allegations in mind) and I think you should include Paul in that category for he does the very thing you seem to object to.

My biggest problem with your post is that you seem to think you are the exception, that everyone else was wrong but you are right.
When Saul followed the theological traditions of Judaism, as he understood it, he failed to understand the truth. As a Christian, he would have relied on the Holy Spirit to lead him into truth.
Paul himself poured scorn on philosophers:
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 1Cor1:19&20

In Christianity, someone should be listened to who you believe is led of the Holy Spirit into truth, not simply because they have a great academic mind.

I rather doubt if Peter and John could have been ministers in many denominations today. They probably were not educated well enough to pass through theological school
 
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hedrick

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Corrupted is too strong a word. Jesus' teachings were never completely lost, and I don't buy the idea that somehow transmission of his authority broke down. But the Church did change did move from a Jewish to a Greek mindset. They also almost completely lost Jesus' concept of the Kingdom of God, and started emphasizing saving people from hell. Saving people is part of Jesus' message, but the overall shape changed. The biggest change, though, was ethics. Purity, particularly sexual purity, became a focus. Jesus didn't use the concept, as it was characteristic of the Pharisees.
 
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