When 'becoming our brother's keeper' goes wrong

[Joined2krist]

Hi, we offered shelter to a family who introduced themselves as real Christians (the man is a Pastor of a Church), as soon as they came in, they began to quarrel, slander, gossip, steal, lie, boast, deceive and such likes, this has cost us a lot of stress and affected us financially.

My question is, how do we know genuine Christians when we don't have enough time to check for their spiritual fruits(when there's an urgent need), how do we avoid getting burned in future?

 

[Minister Monardo]

My question is, how do we know genuine Christians when we don't have enough time to check for their spiritual fruits(when there's an urgent need), how do we avoid getting burned in future?

You should not consider this as getting burned. There is wisdom gained in every experience.
No one on this forum can tell you exactly what the lessons were for you and your family,
although they may offer helpful comments. I always go to the Lord and ask what He is trying
to teach me. What you describe sounds like a "how not to do it" lesson. As to avoiding phonies,
you should absolutely pray for discernment. I can usually see someone's spirit by the third
sentence that comes out of their mouth, especially if they are talking about "their problems".
Many will talk about their difficulties in a show of open sincerity, but are actually looking for
sympathy and making excuses. People always have to be led to the place of personal accountability.
Sounds like that family may have been more Christians with issues, than phony Christians.
If you pray, "Lord, how might I have handled that situation to your glory, and their edification",
you will handle a similar future situation differently and with wisdom from above that avoids
much of the stress, that can only harm us if we let it in.
This scripture always applies, especially in difficult situations:
Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God,
to those who are the called according to His purpose.
You can rest assured that God had a purpose for you in that experience.
Now, it is time for you to find out what it was, as personalized instruction.

 

[Joined2krist]

You should not consider this as getting burned. There is wisdom gained in every experience.
No one on this forum can tell you exactly what the lessons were for you and your family,
although they may offer helpful comments. I always go to the Lord and ask what He is trying
to teach me. What you describe sounds like a "how not to do it" lesson. As to avoiding phonies,
you should absolutely pray for discernment. I can usually see someone's spirit by the third
sentence that comes out of their mouth, especially if they are talking about "their problems".
Many will talk about their difficulties in a show of open sincerity, but are actually looking for
sympathy and making excuses. People always have to be led to the place of personal accountability.
Sounds like that family may have been more Christians with issues, than phony Christians.
If you pray, "Lord, how might I have handled that situation to your glory, and their edification",
you will handle a similar future situation differently and with wisdom from above that avoids
much of the stress, that can only harm us if we let it in.
This scripture always applies, especially in difficult situations:
Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God,
to those who are the called according to His purpose.
You can rest assured that God had a purpose for you in that experience.
Now, it is time for you to find out what it was, as personalized instruction.

Thanks, I'm sure they are phony and not real Christians. If they were real, they should not depend on lying and cheating other people, they shouldn't slander and gossip to cause confusion, we didn't cheat them instead they did, and to be honest i have forgiven them, i pray that they will have a change of heart, i pray that things will go well for them and they wont keep cheating people, we have learned good lessons from the experience and we are grateful to God if we weren't affected financially by their actions then it wouldn't matter at all. This thread isn't about them, i only used the situation, we still want to help people but we would like some honesty, we would prefer to help real Christians in need even in situations where the need is urgent and we don't have enough time to check for spiritual fruits e.g natural disasters

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Hi, we offered shelter to a family who introduced themselves as real Christians (the man is a Pastor of a Church), as soon as they came in, they began to quarrel, slander, gossip, steal, lie, boast, deceive and such likes, this has cost us a lot of stress and affected us financially.

My question is, how do we know genuine Christians when we don't have enough time to check for their spiritual fruits(when there's an urgent need), how do we avoid getting burned in future?

Back in the early 90s, I worked as a volunteer for organization called Love Inc. Which is still around today, in a number of cities. That organization acted as a "Community Clearing House" for volunteer labor in the community. It networked the local churches so a person with a particular skill, like a Catholic carpenter who was willing to help out on the weekends could do something like build a handy capped ramp in another church. e.g. at the home of a Baptist parishioner for example.


Anyway besides networking volunteer workers, the other big thing they do is manage and screen people who are looking in getting various kinds of assistance and benevolence. So that was a big benefit for churches to join up, because they would take the time to separate the sheep from the goats. But another thing, was they had a long term file on such people and talked to all the different churches via their church contacts, so if the people innately looked good, but it came out that they were scamming etc. they got updated, and those people got cut off for future assistance.


Love In the Name of Christ - Helping Churches Help People

 

[Pavel Mosko]

As far as the OP goes I do this sort of thing myself. I think helping others in a personal way can be great etc. But it can easily go to far, where the person tends to over rely on you. I recall telling people who I have given very substantial financial aid to "I am not your savior Jesus is", and the same thing when it comes to being your Provider etc.

For me this is just a matter of common sense and conscience. But providing some kind of charity for the poor has been part of the Judeo Christian Tradition for the last, I don't know 4 thousand years maybe.
Anyway, I think it is a good thing.

I guess, in the past I have been inspired to do it partly because I have seen the great waste of some churches in their spending. This was especially true when I was a Protestant, especially in those nondenominational Charismatic churches were a lot of money could be spent on everything else except people having hard times (lots of ministers and their friends visiting the church while being wined and dined high on the hog etc.).

Anyway, another factor that influenced me was the saying that "charity begins at home", which may not be from the Bible, but I can point to a number of Bible passages and stories that seem to reflect that kind of philosophy. This caused me to do things like especially look after my close Christian friends etc. and even make them a priority at times when it comes to serious life problems like facing Eviction, having utilities cut off, and other kinds of financial emergency assistance. But again common sense and conscience can come into play etc. because of the temptation for some people to over-rely on you etc.

 

[com7fy8]

If they were real, they should not depend on lying and cheating other people, they shouldn't slander and gossip to cause confusion,

Well, you got your proof after the train has run through town. What you're talking about is the caboose!

But Jesus says His sheep hear His voice. I understand this means Jesus does personally guide us about whom to trust and how.

Plus, doesn't Jesus say not to judge by appearance?

"'Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.'" (John 7:24)

So, yes we can evaluate people reliably, if Jesus guides us and does not have us depending on how people can make things look.

You might read Joshua chapter nine. Those Jewish leaders had God, and God had guided them, in the past . . . very reliably. But they evaluated certain men by the evidence presented by those men. And that evidence was rigged and quite convincing;

"but they did not ask counsel of the LORD."

Wrong people are not going to be honorable with you; so I say it is foolish to assume that wrong people will change and be trustworthy with us. But trust God to guide us. And this will include how He changes us so we are capable of hearing Him, sensing Him, and obeying how He pleases to take care of us.

Certainly I can fail in this, but I can trust You, God, to have me . . . us . . . do better >

"casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you." (1 Peter 5:7)

 

[Joined2krist]

As far as the OP goes I do this sort of thing myself. I think helping others in a personal way can be great etc. But it can easily go to far, where the person tends to over rely on you. I recall telling people who I have given very substantial financial aid to "I am not your savior Jesus is", and the same thing when it comes to being your Provider etc.

For me this is just a matter of common sense and conscience. But providing some kind of charity for the poor has been part of the Judeo Christian Tradition for the last, I don't know 4 thousand years maybe.
Anyway, I think it is a good thing.

I guess, in the past I have been inspired to do it partly because I have seen the great waste of some churches in their spending. This was especially true when I was a Protestant, especially in those nondenominational Charismatic churches were a lot of money could be spent on everything else except people having hard times (lots of ministers and ir friends visiting the church while being wined and dined high on the hog etc.).

Anyway, another factor that influenced me was the saying that "charity begins at home", which may not be from the Bible, but I can point to a number of Bible passages and stories that seem to reflect that kind of philosophy. This caused me to do things like especially look after my close Christian friends etc. and even make them a priority at times when it comes to serious life problems like facing Eviction, having utilities cut off, and other kinds of financial emergency assistance. But again common sense and conscience can come into play etc. because of the temptation for some people to over-rely on you etc.

You're right, i think we have learned lessons from this situation, perhaps it's better to contribute to existing charity organisations with a good track record than to take on helping people personally, i suppose we will still be doing the same good works but in a much saferway

 

[Joined2krist]

Well, you got your proof after the train has run through town. What you're talking about is the caboose!

But Jesus says His sheep hear His voice. I understand this means Jesus does personally guide us about whom to trust and how.

Plus, doesn't Jesus say not to judge by appearance?

"'Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.'" (John 7:24)

So, yes we can evaluate people reliably, if Jesus guides us and does not have us depending on how people can make things look.

You might read Joshua chapter nine. Those Jewish leaders had God, and God had guided them, in the past . . . very reliably. But they evaluated certain men by the evidence presented by those men. And that evidence was rigged and quite convincing;

"but they did not ask counsel of the LORD."

Wrong people are not going to be honorable with you; so I say it is foolish to assume that wrong people will change and be trustworthy with us. But trust God to guide us. And this will include how He changes us so we are capable of hearing Him, sensing Him, and obeying how He pleases to take care of us.

Certainly I can fail in this, but I can trust You, God, to have me . . . us . . . do better >

"casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you." (1 Peter 5:7)

Thanks, we are still growing in our knowledge of the word, although i have read not to judge by appearance however in this case we took them by their word not appearance; he is a Pastor. A major lesson learned is not to trust people by their word regardless, but we would still offer help once we have recovered financially but in a much safer way, God bless

 

[Pavel Mosko]

You're right, i think we have learned lessons from this situation, perhaps it's better to contribute to existing charity organisations with a good track record than to take on helping people personally, i suppose we will still be doing the same good works but in a much saferway

Well for me after dealing with various Bible passages that talk about "ignoring the cries to the poor" I am willing to give basic alms to the poor, like street person, if I got something appropriate it in my wallet. Which I don't these days usually since I've gone totally cashless (unless I'm expecting some big emergency where I may start keeping cash again). But I would see a person asking for alms as a sign to show God's mercy etc. And that really came after reading some Eastern Orthodox writings about alms which kind of reflects also what Catholics were doing too at least before the nonprofit charity was invented.


But you should feel what works best for you.


I will say I believe this sort of thing is a two way street. Like a lot of people have reticence because of fear of being taken advantage of, or the other fear of "judging people" because lots of people are paranoid about that. But life in most situations is a two way street. Basically unless you are dealing with a baby, or someone who has an extreme developmental disability or some other kind of condition, for the most part people need to be accountable for themselves. So that means they need to be open to feedback, especially negative feedback especially when they are asking too much, or their some other kind of problem. IF you can go into things, with that kind of attitude then things can be positive for everybody. But some people have a problem with boundaries etc. but this can be a good exercise for that because sooner or later someone you know will be testing your boundaries...

 

[GallagherM]

Thank you helping them while you did regardless of their fleshly issues. Love is paramount and mercy triumphs over judgement. It could have been much worse, ( killed) thank God though that did not happen.

 

[com7fy8]

we took them by their word not appearance; he is a Pastor.

Well, there is church culture in which you are expected to put a pastor above question.

But it is written >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

Plus, we have what our Apostle Paul gives as qualifications for a man to "take care of the church of God" > 1 Timothy 3:1-10. Ones evaluating him do not just take him at his word and put him above question. But he needs to be tested.

And if a pastoral candidate must be tested, I would think an example leader would even expect you to make sure about him, and not assume. Because part of a pastor's Biblical ministry is to help sheep to become able to hear our Shepherd's voice so wrong people can not mislead us; so if I care about you, I do not want you to trust me blindly, but I do what I can to encourage you to become able to make sure with God about me . . . so you can use this ability to make sure about anyone else, too

Part of how you can tell if a person is legitimate is if the person can help you in God's word, and minister the effect of God's own love to you; every child of God has the ability to minister God's own grace to each other > 1 Peter 4:9-10. It does not take long to sense if a person is ministering God's own love to you in the Holy Spirit, and His real and deep correction.

So, if someone is not functional like this, this is all you need to know. And I think another thing that can help is we can avoid making decisions about people, in isolation with them. You can bring your trusted people into evaluating someone. A pastor is the responsibility of the church leadership, first of all, I would say. So, you could first bring up the person's situation with example leadership people whom you know, who have proven themselves in ability to be guided by God.

Like I say, a leader by example will even welcome you to make sure about the person. And the person will be glad to handle things as family, with others who are mature Christians, and not only with you in isolation with the person.

But I have seen how a person can evaluate a person by how the person made things look, plus the person could select her in-crowd who would evaluate the person. And they could all fool themselves together, just like she could.

Only with God is it possible to be able to tell the difference. This world has taught us to assume; every day, I can still fool myself about what the weather will be. But I understand that God wants me to wait on Him, even all the time, and trust Him to guide us according to all He knows, for everything.

So, if I learn this with little things, then when something bigger comes along, already I know how to seek God and be guided reliably by Him.

But there are ones who will tell you that God expects you to figure out smaller things on your own, and He is waiting in case you get really stuck. But this is a way of isolating you with an idol of independence, and an idol of free will. But Jesus says to deny ourselves, right (Luke 9:23)? Get away from our isolated selves. And be with God, all the time, along with everyone else who is family with Jesus >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

God our Heavenly Father guides us together > "in one body" > in this peace, and we help one another with this.

So, by the way, if someone is not pastoring you to do this . . . is that person a pastor?

 

[GallagherM]

I know this is hard too is sitting there actually reading the Bible with family and teaching correctly too, which is something that found to be difficult in my own life, my mother will listen. My brother will not. It’s one reason that YouTube videos are made for those out there willingly to listen. Truth is important. Love is important to God. Forgiveness and mercy, too.

 

[SANTOSO]

Hi, we offered shelter to a family who introduced themselves as real Christians (the man is a Pastor of a Church), as soon as they came in, they began to quarrel, slander, gossip, steal, lie, boast, deceive and such likes, this has cost us a lot of stress and affected us financially.

My question is, how do we know genuine Christians when we don't have enough time to check for their spiritual fruits(when there's an urgent need), how do we avoid getting burned in future?

I perceive that apostle Paul have us good counsel in this matter:

for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way? -1 Corinthians 3:3

So dear one, when those who called themselves pastor, began to quarrel and slander; were they not filled with jealousy and strife? So, they cannot be addressed as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ.

what you said the things that they have done to you, they have trespassed you or offended you. And you have been right in releasing forgiveness to them.

I understand your concern such incidents in the future. I consider that you should pray, that you may receive what you ask.

You can consider this prayer：

Holy Spirit,
I trust in You, that You lead me.
I humble myself before You, that You lead me to do what is right today or in regard to this matter…
Thank You, Holy Spirit for the grace, that is Your steadfast love.
Your grace with me, give me assurance in this matter.
I believe I can do all things through Christ who strengthen me.
Amen