What's the Right Order?

Tree of Life

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God calls us to be saved through the preaching of the gospel. Our hearts are shocked to life by the Holy Spirit and we are made able to believe. We place our faith in Christ. We turn from our sin.

All of these things, and perhaps more, happen when a person is converted from darkness to light. The theological terms are these:

1. Effectual Calling
2. Regeneration
3. Saving Faith
4. Repentance Unto Life

What's the proper order of these events?

All of these events are simultaneous. They do not occur one after another and they cannot. None can happen without the other three happening at the same time. They are really four ways of looking at the same event of conversion.
 
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Dave L

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God calls us to be saved through the preaching of the gospel. Our hearts are shocked to life by the Holy Spirit and we are made able to believe. We place our faith in Christ. We turn from our sin.

All of these things, and perhaps more, happen when a person is converted from darkness to light. The theological terms are these:

1. Effectual Calling
2. Regeneration
3. Saving Faith
4. Repentance Unto Life

What's the proper order of these events?

All of these events are simultaneous. They do not occur one after another and they cannot. None can happen without the other three happening at the same time. They are really four ways of looking at the same event of conversion.
2, 1, 3, 4.
 
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Tree of Life

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What about infants and imbeciles who never hear or understand the gospel?

Elect infants and other special cases may be regenerated as God sees fit. But these are special scenarios and not the regular way that God deals with us. I wouldn't use these cases as a rule for how God normally saves people.
 
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Dave L

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Elect infants and other special cases may be regenerated as God sees fit. But these are special scenarios and not the regular way that God deals with us. I wouldn't use these cases as a rule for how God normally saves people.
Your order turns the gospel into law and conditions salvation on a person's response.
 
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How is a person regenerated before they hear the gospel? Also, how can I have faith in Jesus if I don't also repent of my sins?

One way of explaining is, because of regeneration, the ears hear, the eyes see, the heart responds to the Gospel. Without it, the ears do not hear, the eyes do not see, the heart does not respond. Without it, man is still religious at heart, but far from the heart of God.
 
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sdowney717

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Regeneration, simply is being made born again. Without it, no one can see-percieve the kingdom of God.
If your not regenerated as spiritually alive, you have no part in Christ, who is the Resurrection and the Life. Jesus told his disciple, let the dead bury the dead, but as for you, come and follow me, That disciple was alive, not one of the dead. But he was not truly aware of his condition. We may not feel alive who were dead, but we are alive who were dead if God has made us alive according to the Spirit, we then live according to the Spirit and we then have come to know Christ as God come in the flesh to save us from our sins. We are no longer just flesh, but alive to God. Those who are in the flesh can not please God, so God has to make us acceptable in the beloved by making us born again so that we can see, hear, understand and receive spiritual things of God. Christ has come to give us an understanding, to know Him who is true.
 
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Tree of Life

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Your order turns the gospel into law and conditions salvation on a person's response.

Salvation is conditioned on a person's response. We must repent and believe the gospel in order to be saved.

But my order is that there is no order. All of these things happen simultaneously.
 
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Tree of Life

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One way of explaining is, because of regeneration, the ears hear, the eyes see, the heart responds to the Gospel. Without it, the ears do not hear, the eyes do not see, the heart does not respond. Without it, man is still religious at heart, but far from the heart of God.

I agree. But regeneration comes as we hear the gospel. Not before.
 
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I agree. But regeneration comes as we hear the gospel. Not before.

Thinking out loud here, I am wondering about people who cannot physically hear, though it is not the norm, some people are born without the sense of hearing, others loose the sense through accidents or the processes of aging. I wonder how God would communicate the Gospel to them, especially in times of old. Dave already mentioned infants, Lord knows how many have and still die in infancy, infants of believers and non-believers alike. I do understand your position, I also see merit in it, and the normal order may be more simultaneous or at least our experience of it is.
 
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sdowney717

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I agree. But regeneration comes as we hear the gospel. Not before.
John as a babe lept in the womb when Mary who was pregnant with Jesus came near. And they were filled with the Holy Spirit. If your filled with the Spirit of God, then you are already in the past born again and alive to God.
However, unregenerate persons can give a prophecy, at least back at that time, God spoke by way of Caiaphas the High priest, but this was a special case. Caiaphas was not as far as we know born again, so the Spirit did not indwell Caiaphas.

Don't limit God to when He makes someone born again.
For example Peter when God sends him to Cornelius, three times God told Peter to not call common what God had cleansed. So, Cornelius and family, had been born of God before they heard Peter.
God had cleansed them, they were no longer common, they were born again, regenerated.

They were certainly seriously interested in the gospel, and Christ. God already done His work in them so that when they heard Peter, they were filled with His Spirit before Peter had said much at all. Only Cornelius had seen the angel to tell him to send for Peter, but Cornelius's whole household had been born of God, so that when they heard the gospel, they believed in Christ.

Being born again does not mean you are filled with the Spirit, that comes later after you believe, then you are sealed for the Day of redemption. You can not believe or receive Christ unless you are born again of God first.

As John 1 says, all who received Him had been born of God, not of their own wills.


12 But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
 
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sdowney717

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Acts 10, (God had purified, in the Geneva bible) cleansed Cornelius.
Jesus told His disciples, they were already clean because of the words He had spoken to them, but not all of them, (in reference to Judas who was to betray him, Judas was not cleansed)

11 and he doth behold the heaven opened, and descending unto him a certain vessel, as a great sheet, bound at the four corners, and let down upon the earth,

12 in which were all the four-footed beasts of the earth, and the wild beasts, and the creeping things, and the fowls of the heaven,

13 and there came a voice unto him: `Having risen, Peter, slay and eat.'

14 And Peter said, `Not so, Lord; because at no time did I eat anything common or unclean;'

15 and [there is] a voice again a second time unto him: `What God did cleanse, thou, declare not thou common;'

16 and this was done thrice, and again was the vessel received up to the heaven.

17 And as Peter was perplexed in himself what the vision that he saw might be, then, lo, the men who have been sent from Cornelius, having made inquiry for the house of Simon, stood at the gate,
 
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sdowney717

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No mention of our faith here regarding being born again.
The Holy Spirit monergistically according to His mercy saved us.
Once you are washed clean by regeneration, then your saved according to His mercy. The heart believes unto righteousness. A wicked non regenerated unwashed, unclean heart wont be believeing and confessing Christ as Lord or that God raised Him from the dead..
The people who don't like this being born again prior to faith, also don't like the idea of us individually being chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world. That is predestination to be conformed to the image of Christ, and is only for those God foreknew personally as His children. That means some are excluded, cast out. Those who are born according the flesh will not inherit the kingdom of God, they will be cast out.

Titus 3:4-6 New King James Version (NKJV)
4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,

2 Timothy 1:8-10 New King James Version (NKJV)
8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,
 
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redleghunter

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No mention of our faith here regarding being born again.
The Holy Spirit monergistically according to His mercy saved us.
Once you are washed clean by regeneration, then your saved according to His mercy. The heart believes unto righteousness. A wicked non regenerated unwashed, unclean heart wont be believeing and confessing Christ as Lord or that God raised Him from the dead..
The people who don't like this being born again prior to faith, also don't like the idea of us individually being chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world. That is predestination to be conformed to the image of Christ, and is only for those God foreknew personally as His children. That means some are excluded, cast out. Those who are born according the flesh will not inherit the kingdom of God, they will be cast out.

Titus 3:4-6 New King James Version (NKJV)
4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,

2 Timothy 1:8-10 New King James Version (NKJV)
8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,
I think you can add Ephesians 2 to the mix. Dead people cannot respond as you note.

However theologically we want to skin the cat, my personal experience is what @Tree of Life mentions.

There did not seem like an order of things. It was a waterfall not knowing the height or depth but being fully immersed in His Grace and Peace.
 
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ViaCrucis

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1, 2, and 3 are cotemporaneous. God's call through Word and Sacrament is efficacious to create faith, and it is here in Word and Sacrament that we are born again, as the Lord says in John 3:5 and the Apostle Paul says in Titus 3:5.

Repentance is the outlier, it is a response. And not just a once and that's it response, repentance is the the sort of life we live as the people of the Simul (simul iustus et peccator). I do not look to my repentance to give me assurance of my salvation in Christ, I look to what God has said and done for that, not to myself. The Law cannot save me, my guilt under the Law certainly doesn't save me, only what God has done and gives me in the Gospel saves me.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Wordkeeper

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1. Effectual Calling
2. Regeneration
3. Saving Faith
4. Repentance Unto Life

A good way to study the subject, to see how to work with God, is to see examples of the events in Scripture.

1. Effectual Calling

Acts 17:26and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, 27that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;

Hebrews 11: 13All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own. 15And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16But as it is, they desire a better country,that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them.

The above text and parallels tell us that God placed all men in different situations in this world so that they would be struck by how inappropriate it was for man to be placed in a situation where he wanted to follow a noble life, but the world would not allow it. They hated the human condition and longed for a better role for humanity, a role they would be comfortable in.

All people know this fact, but some want to take the easy way out, live life with the least discomfort, and decide to join forces with the unfairness of life. They themselves act unfairly towards others. They hate the light, because the light reveals their wrong choice and deeds.

Those who love the light are God’s sheep. When they hear Christ's words, it resonates with them. They recognise the Shepherd, the Leader, in Christ. This happens because those who cry out to God to be saved from Egypt are led out of Egypt and are given to Christ. They drink from the Rock. When a person leaves Egypt, God baptises that person, cuts the umbilical cord that tied them to Egypt, closes the way back just as the Red Sea closed behind Israel. However the person is still not regenerated, clean, changed. He has rejected Egypt, but he must also accept God. God gives them samples of how they will now live. They must pick up a cross everyday, and allow God to resurrect them. The first sample God gave Israel was when He withheld food and water. He then supplied these necessities of life miraculously.

The purpose of this was to reveal to the other nations the better way to live, by following God, not the way of the world, serving selfish interest, working incessantly to preserve earthly life. Notice God was only continuing what He had done in Egypt. Creating situations and solving them. Notice Jesus was similarly tested.

Some find it stressful and want to go back to Egypt, but you can't taste the new life and reject it because it involved a high cost to give this life and rejection is not recognising this fact, is insulting, and going against God. You can't go back, and the punishment given, to those who try, is to live out a life without entering rest, being fulfilled. This is called being unclean, being like Korah, Judas, Ananias and Sapphira. Those who are clean are like Joshua and Caleb, and Peter and Barnabas. Notice that even though they have bathed, they must still wash their feet. Peter left everything to follow God, but he had to learn that even his life was to be set before God to demonstrate eternal life, “experiencing danger, and being rescued by God”. Jesus had to tell Peter to go away when Peter tried to keep His Master’s life and his own away from being placed at God's service. God willed to rescue His People from all dangers, and all we have needs to be placed before God, even our own lives.

This is eternal life, to showcase God’s ability to preserve all we put to risk, even life. When we fully abandon serving selfish interest to gain and preserve treasure that perishes, even physical life. Again, this is meaningful life, life with lasting results: to serve God for treasure that lasts, by saving our fellow human beings,

2. Regeneration

John 3:1Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. 2He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

3Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.a

4“How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.


Luke 11:20But if I am casting out demons by the power of God, then the Kingdom of God has arrived among you.

Acts 4:29“And now, Lord, take note of their threats, and grant that Your bond-servants may speak Your word with all confidence, 30while You extend Your hand to heal, and signs and wonders take place through the name of Your holy servant Jesus.” 31And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God with boldness.

When we begin to understand the Way, we are said to be regenerated, born again. We know what God wants, how He will execute His plan and what the results look like. God wants people to see the futility of living selfish lives for treasure that perishes and to see the blessings of serving Him for treasure that lasts. He does this by showing His sufficiency in all situations in His followers' lives. He executes His plan by revealing His sufficiency to his followers and being faithful in resurrecting them everytime they lay down their lives. The results are that others themselves begin to stop leading selfish lives, to lead lives serving God. Those who know God’s plan are said to be regenerated, have a new worldview. They can see the Kingdom of God, understand it: it is God working in their lives. They can enter the Kingdom of God, this state of knowing God, having this unity with Him that Jesus had:

3. Saving Faith

This is not saving faith, it is self serving, safe faith which glorifies men and which does not show God’s ability and willingness to save:

Matthew 26: 6Now when Jesus was in Bethany, at the home of Simon the leper, 7a woman came to Him with an alabaster vial of very costly perfume, and she poured it on His head as He reclined at the table. 8But the disciples were indignant when they saw this, and said, “Why this waste? 9“For this perfume might have been sold for a high price and the money given to the poor.” 10But Jesus, aware of this, said to them, “Why do you bother the woman? For she has done a good deed to Me. 11“For you always have the poor with you; but you do not always have Me. 12“For when she poured this perfume on My body, she did it to prepare Me for burial. 13“Truly I say to you, wherever this gospel is preached in the whole world, what this woman has done will also be spoken of in memory of her.”

14Then one of the twelve, named Judas Iscariot, went to the chief priests 15and said, “What are you willing to give me to betray Him to you?” And they weighed out thirty pieces of silver to him. 16From then on he began looking for a good opportunity to betray Jesus.

This is how we are not clean:

John 13:10Jesus said to him, “He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.” 11For He knew the one who was betraying Him; for this reason He said, “Not all of you are clean.”

Saving faith is to act on what you believe, to lay down your life for your fellow human being, do things that risk our own safety and comfort, SO that God raises us up, to showcase God’s sufficiency and abilty to save, so that people turn to Him:

1 John 3:16We know love by this, that He laid down His life for us; and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.17But whoever has the world’s goods, and sees his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him? 18Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. 19We will know by this that we are of the truth, and will assure our heart before Him 20in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things. 21Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.


James 2:14What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? 15If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for theirbody, what use is that? 17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.


4. Repentance Unto Life

Repentance, regeneration, being born again, are all the same: meta noia means change mind. We change our outlook, our mindset. We wake up to the fact that working for treasure that lasts by serving God through laying down our lives is the purposeful life, whilst working for treasure that perishes by serving selfish interest , saving our own lives is a futile life.


The words we see in the text are the short forms the believers used when they were referring to these long descriptions. Metonymy. Synecdoche.
 
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Dave L

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Salvation is conditioned on a person's response. We must repent and believe the gospel in order to be saved.

But my order is that there is no order. All of these things happen simultaneously.
“So I want you to understand that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.” (1 Corinthians 12:3)
 
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Tree of Life

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Thinking out loud here, I am wondering about people who cannot physically hear, though it is not the norm, some people are born without the sense of hearing, others loose the sense through accidents or the processes of aging. I wonder how God would communicate the Gospel to them, especially in times of old. Dave already mentioned infants, Lord knows how many have and still die in infancy, infants of believers and non-believers alike. I do understand your position, I also see merit in it, and the normal order may be more simultaneous or at least our experience of it is.

One can "hear the gospel" in more ways than audible hearing. One can also read about it.
 
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