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What's the best response you've seen or read for when people ask about homosexuality?

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by wallet_man, Aug 19, 2020.

  1. wallet_man

    wallet_man New Member

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    In relation to witnessing to nonChristians who ask about homosexuality - how should we approach any questions related to homosexuality. I've read a few responses already and the good ones always include some mention of how we view all sin as serious, and some more then others once you convert. Likewise, what are some foundations for our approach for Christians who confront us with it or ask about it? This is probably the best response I've heard on the Christian front:
    I have misgivings about it not being worthy of excommunication though.

    How would you respond to someone saying "they were born gay?" (in a personal setting and a street preaching setting; to Christians and nonChristains)

    How would you respond, if it all, if someone said people like you are why people commit suicide (in a personal setting and a street preaching setting; to Christians and nonChristains)?

    How would you respond if some said there are more than 2 genders (in a personal setting and a street preaching setting; to Christians and nonChristains)?

    And I agree with HARK's foundation mentioned below.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
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  2. thecolorsblend

    thecolorsblend If God is your Father, who is your Mother? Supporter

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    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2020
  3. GedaliahMaegil

    GedaliahMaegil Messianic Ger Toshav

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    Ask what about homosexuality?
     
  4. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Purple Team - Moderator Supporter

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    I like the don't ask, don't tell (unless you've repented) approach.
     
  5. GedaliahMaegil

    GedaliahMaegil Messianic Ger Toshav

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    I'm just trying to find out what wallet_man specifically wants to know. As of now, it's very vague.
     
  6. Victor in Christ

    Victor in Christ Jehovah Tsidkenu

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    ignore
     
  7. Victor in Christ

    Victor in Christ Jehovah Tsidkenu

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    he didn't post anything. He wants to know nothing about sin. just right.
     
  8. wallet_man

    wallet_man New Member

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    It's an open ended question. Take it and reply as you may as long as you find it edifying for church members to read.

    This is probably the best response I've heard:
    I have misgivings about it not being worthy of excommunication though.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
  9. Victor in Christ

    Victor in Christ Jehovah Tsidkenu

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    doesn't edify a Christian
     
  10. wallet_man

    wallet_man New Member

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    I think encouragements and reminders to enact what the word teaches have their place.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
  11. GedaliahMaegil

    GedaliahMaegil Messianic Ger Toshav

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    I'm too busy edifying the Messianic community.
     
  12. wallet_man

    wallet_man New Member

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    I was a bit vague, I updated the opening.
     
  13. thecolorsblend

    thecolorsblend If God is your Father, who is your Mother? Supporter

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    Some people are born alcoholics. Are we supposed to "celebrate" that too?
     
  14. Dkh587

    Dkh587 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Homosexuality is a desire and a work of the flesh.

    They are no different than anybody else that lives in sin.

    Messiah taught repentance to all sin, he didn’t focus on 1 sin.

    It’s either repent, or perish.
     
  15. GedaliahMaegil

    GedaliahMaegil Messianic Ger Toshav

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    #AnswersInTorah. B`resheet. They were created male and female, to be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth, and subdue it. It's in the very first chapter.

    The woman was made to complement the man, as a helper, for the man was not designed to be fruitful with himself, multiply with himself, fill the earth by himself and subdue it alone.

    HaShem said it was not good for him to be alone, but to have a helper, a companion, a complement, bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh. Another male could not accomplish this with Adam.

    It's all in design. Both male and female were designed to strive together, in ways that men cannot work with each other. It is a unique relationship that has a mutual origin in a fully relational God and given His likeness. Man and woman are designed and empowered by their Creator to complement each other in every conceivable way.

    Ultimately, no one can make anyone do anything. We all have choices we can make, whether to do right or to do wrong, and, while the world wants to blur the lines, there is a standard from outside this world that does not change (i.e. Torah). So, if a person ends his life, he or she makes that choice alone, and not because I or anyone else made that choice for them (an impossibility). Unfortunately, the choice to take one's own life is against Torah (cf. B`resheet 9:5; #AnswersInTorah). I promote Torah, so I would not promote something that is against Torah. The accusation would be false on its face.

    However, sin has a natural result of creating self-loathing in the one who sins. We see this throughout the Scriptures (e.g. Melekh Sha`ul's end). It seems more than reasonable to me that it is this self-loathing that acts as a self-justification of the choice to take one's own life.

    In those living with homosexual sin, you see a lot of lashing out towards those who do not accept that sin as virtue, a lot of self-mutilation, and a lot of angst. These are the result of not walking according to design. And that goes for a lot of types of sin, not just homosexuality. It eats at you, it blackens the soul and it alters the mind. There is no "getting away with sin"; the corruption festers. The only hope for a different outcome is repentance, turning away from the sin, and being born again. Only then can the healing of the damage begin, including inclinations towards suicide.

    #AnswersInTorah. He made them male and female. Anything else is an imagining that does not follow the created pattern. I don't care how many mutated hermaphrodites and surgically-altered people can be lined up as a counter. The original design was male and female, intended to interact in the most intimate and complementary manner, being a likeness of the perfect relationability of HaShem within Himself.
     
  16. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Purple Team - Moderator Supporter

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    No; but then YHWH hasn't burned down the alcoholics with fire and brimstone. By the way, there is no gay gene. Like alcoholism, this is leaned behavior.

    The-Born-Gay-Hoax.pdf
     
  17. thecolorsblend

    thecolorsblend If God is your Father, who is your Mother? Supporter

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    There's a thing called a "premise". One accepts a premise in order to discuss the matter. In this case, irrespective of actual scientific fact, I accepted the premise that someone might be "born this way", re: homosexuality to make the point that one's genes don't excuse behavior.

    To close the loop on that, I compared a genetic predisposition toward homosexuality to a genetic predisposition toward alcoholism. Sacred Scripture forbids intoxication. There is no allowance made for one's genetic markers.

    This type of rhetoric is usually done in order to rise above the weeds to take the matter back to Sacred Scripture in an attempt to settle the matter in an authoritative way.

    The other participants/readers in this thread seemed to understand that approach and so they accepted it and moved on.

    But then your post popped up.

    Anyway. Hopefully this clarifies things for you.

    PS- You might be very wrong about the non-existence of a gene for alcoholism: Is Alcoholism Hereditary or Genetic?
     
  18. pinacled

    pinacled walking with the Shekinah

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  19. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member Staff Member Purple Team - Moderator Supporter

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    There is also a thing called a "faulty premise." It's a logical fallacy.

    It's not that I don't believe you; but can you show me the verse? The prohibition of homosexuality is clearly defined.

    So might your source. Lets take a look.

    "Alcohol use disorder, the medical term for alcoholism and alcohol abuse, has been linked to some specific genes. Having a close relative, such as a parent or sibling, who struggles with alcohol use disorder increases the chances that a person will also struggle with the same addiction."

    Is Alcoholism Hereditary or Genetic?

    Some specific genes? Which ones? Let's follow the link:

    "Page not found
    Sorry, the page you requested is unavailable. The link you requested might be broken, or no longer exist."

    https://www.nature.com/articles/tp201429a

    Well at least they didn't cite a white cow eating marshmallows in a snowstorm.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
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