What's so bad about condoms?

[Rhamiel]

It's not only re-learning. It's also that moral theology is an extremely complex subject. I've had 2-3 years of it in my undergrad and it's difficult to wade through. Most challenging (but rewarding) subject I have studied, but definitely NOT black and white or "easy".

could you help explain it to me? it seems rather black and white...
this is a sin, dont do it... simple

 

[JoabAnias]

Maybe it is complex in an academic setting when you are getting deep into the intellectual aspects, but we have a God who writes His law in our hearts and reveals to the simple what He keeps from the wise. He will give wisdom and understanding to anyone who asks for it.

(I am not anti-intellectual. I just think Scripture's promises apply here!)

One has to wonder if people are asking for the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

 

[JoabAnias]

could you help explain it to me? it seems rather black and white...
this is a sin, dont do it... simple

And there is no need to over complicate it.

Wisdom is always simple.

 

[JoabAnias]

and I am soooo glad that nobody in the Church said "oh, just read your catechism and figure it out yourself, this is easy!" because although it is entirely possible that veteran Catholics like you folks would at least stand a chance of making heads or tails of it... but brand new Catholics or Catholics who have just come back to the fold who want to understand these things would be up a creek without a paddle.

There is a big difference between sincerely wanting to understand and already having its in ones mind to knock down the Church's teaching anyway they can.

Thats the problem with this forum. Its more dissent than assent. Its not a good place to get the truth unless one already has the gifts of wisdom, understanding and discernment.

 

[JourneyToPeace]

And there is no need to over complicate it.

Wisdom is always simple.

I think that this is something many people, including me, need to learn. I know I myself am "guilty" of over-reading and over-analyzing everything. It's how my mind has always worked... my family has always joked that I am a "permanent student". It is ENTIRELY possible to accidentally fall into the trap of loving academic pursuits/philosophy/theology more than we love the Word of God, or God Himself...

... and on issues like this one, and others, we DO just need to stop over-complicating it.

 

[JoabAnias]

Well it takes a lot of the fun out of blowing hot air all over the internet.

Stop making sense.

 

[JoabAnias]

I think that this is something many people, including me, need to learn. I know I myself am "guilty" of over-reading and over-analyzing everything. It's how my mind has always worked... my family has always joked that I am a "permanent student". It is ENTIRELY possible to accidentally fall into the trap of loving academic pursuits/philosophy/theology more than we love the Word of God, or God Himself...

... and on issues like this one, and others, we DO just need to stop over-complicating it.

Yes thats true.

It can be fine if its your learning process and you arrive at the same end.

Spirit, body and mind should compliment. If we find they aren't then they may need a closer look.

Scripture tells us that intelligence will pass away.

Thats not to say perpetual learning is a mistake either.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Scholasticism

 

[Davidnic]

It's not only re-learning. It's also that moral theology is an extremely complex subject. I've had 2-3 years of it in my undergrad and it's difficult to wade through. Most challenging (but rewarding) subject I have studied, but definitely NOT black and white or "easy".

Indeed. Moral Theology is an amazing subject. very rewarding but also very stressful and difficult at times. Complex on a unique level that is hard to explain unless you've studied it and even then the intricacies can be beautiful and complex.

Advice from someone else who has studied it, always remember that the study of moral theology has, as two counterweights: Truth and Mercy that are embodied in Christ and present to our hearts by the Eucharist. To move forward in the study of moral theology foster a constant devotion to the Eucharist and the Sacred Heart of Jesus. That union of your soul with the Eucharist and the Sacred Heart ( those two united in and of themselves) will help in the application of Truth and Mercy when the human mind can not grasp the intricacies. Think of it as where the mind is dark the Eucharist is the teacher of the heart.

 

[Michie]

Stop making sense.

I can do it once in a blue moon!

 

[JoabAnias]

I can do it once in a blue moon!

Thanks be to the Holy Spirit.

 

[Michie]

Thanks be to the Holy Spirit.

 

[EmbattledBunny]

To ask this question is not to say someone isn't smart enough to understand the CCC. Its to ask if they really do or not. Your imaginations adds to it things that aren't said or inferred. The question is irenic. What you read into it is of you.

...says the guys who reacted this way to the suggestions that some theologians are brighter bulbs than him:

How is that respectful? and

How does that answer the question that was asked?

Thats not even logical. Its just an emotional knee jerk reaction.

Is it to much to ask for objectivity in this forum?

Maybe being stupid like me, as you infer, is a good thing as I understand NFP completely.

Joab, you should never impugn another's intention for asking a question because you may simply be taking it the wrong way.

 

[JoabAnias]

...says the guys who reacted this way to the suggestions that some theologians are brighter bulbs than him

Joab, you should never impugn another's intention for asking a question because you may simply be taking it the wrong way.

 

[JoabAnias]

So few words.

 

[WarriorAngel]

What was the OP again?

 

[cowboysfan1970]

Oh I don't see any real difference. Some would argue that it's using natural infertile periods.. but in my eyes it's very simple. Sex is for procreation. End off. Separating that truth from the act, even by using a calendar is still wrong.

Just don't have sex if you're not interested in procreation. If you time it to reduce the risks of a pregnancy you're still trying to avoid a pregnancy whilst enjoying the act of sex..

It's like in the Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix novel when Fred and George came of age and started whipping their wands out for every little thing and apparating every couple of feet. Just because you can doesn't mean you must.

There are two very fundamental problems with that. One is that would mean that infertile people or post meneposual women would be forbidden from ever having sex and there's nothing in the Bible that backs that up. Second is that nothing like that appears in either Humanae Vitae or Theology of the Body.

 

[Virgil the Roman]

...blue moon!

That is a very good beer.

 

[Michie]

That is a very good beer.

There is an ice cream that goes by that title too.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I don't see how people who use NFP to prevent conception are more open to life than people who use condoms, nor do I see how people who use condoms but want to have kids and do actually have kids are less open to life than NFP-ing couples.

The church's teaching would make more sense if no birth control were allowed, including NFP.

And if one's intentions are "wrong" regardless of the method, what does it matter which method one uses? (I'm not talking about abortifacient methods, they're a different subject.)

it's not only about being open to life.. it's' about the purpose of sex. NFP doesn't alter sex in any way. Using condoms is having sex but not being open to a life that can come from it. With NFP, no conception CAN occur.

Personally, and I do NOT say this to belittle anyone who struggles with these teachings, I don't think the teachings themselves are all that difficult to understand.

I think the problem is "uninstalling" the programs of thinking that we've downloaded from the mainstream culture. I know that 2 years ago, when I first started looking into Catholicism, I did not grasp the logic behind the Church's teachings on issues of life and sex, but they seemed so minor to me that they really weren't on my radar.

But then I really undertook a study of the Theology of the Body, read books on it, listened to EWTN shows, and started to learn for the first time what it means to be human, what humans were supposed to be (original justice), how these issues fit into the big picture. Now I see that they are not just little bunny trails where the Church is being picky and moralistic; they are really essential to living authentic human lives and building a truly human civilization.

The reason why the Theology of the Body is so detailed is not because the concepts are difficult in themselves, but because we have so much re-learning to do. We don't see ourselves as we truly are and as we were meant to be, and it was JPII's mission to correct our vision..

No, I don't understand anything as deeply as JPII did. I'm only 18, how could I? But I don't think these truths are beyond the reach of the layperson, if he is shown the way.

that's a good point

Maybe it is complex in an academic setting when you are getting deep into the intellectual aspects, but we have a God who writes His law in our hearts and reveals to the simple what He keeps from the wise. He will give wisdom and understanding to anyone who asks for it.

(I am not anti-intellectual. I just think Scripture's promises apply here!)

also a good point I understand those who struggle with the teachings... but sometimes we just need to be like little children, as silly as that seems to the world

 

[Cain Spencer]

There is an ice cream that goes by that title too.

There is also a rose by that name;