"Whatever is not of faith is sin.", "The Law (O.C.) is not of faith.", "Is the law sin then...?"

LaSorcia

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Of course not. Paul explains in Romans 7. You didn't quote all of Romans 7:7. ;)

7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”b]">[b] 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
 
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1stcenturylady

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The Commandments are holy; the carnal nature is evil and needs to be reborn without the desire to sin.

The Mosaic outward laws are holy, as Jesus is Holy, but were fulfilled in Him.
 
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SkyWriting

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The Commandments are holy; the carnal nature is evil and needs to be reborn without the desire to sin.

The Mosaic outward laws are holy, as Jesus is Holy, but were fulfilled in Him.

It's hard to imagine they are Holy themselves.
Without sin they would have no purpose.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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"Whatever is not of faith is sin."(Romans 14:23), "The Law (O.C.) is not of faith."(Galatians 3:12), "Is the law sin then...?(Romans 7:7) (and on from verse 7)"

Comments...?

God Bless!
Paul says, if righteousness can come from following the law, then Christ died for nothing. So effectively saying "Christ died for nothing" with your actions is actually missing the mark, and perhaps even blasphemous.
 
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1stcenturylady

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It's hard to imagine they are Holy themselves.
Without sin they would have no purpose.

Exactly, now you know why we are not under the law, IF we are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit. Because the Spirit doesn't sin, there is no need for the holy laws telling us NOT to do something, when we wouldn't anyway.
 
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faroukfarouk

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Of course not. Paul explains in Romans 7. You didn't quote all of Romans 7:7. ;)

7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”b]">[b] 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
Romans is indeed a wonderfully thorough, spiritual argument by an Apostle who was well versed in Old Testament Scriptures but enlightened by the Holy Spirit to faith in the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus. :)
 
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Neogaia777

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Of course not. Paul explains in Romans 7. You didn't quote all of Romans 7:7. ;)

7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”b]">[b] 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
So what are we to say to this, Pauls' words in this...? What is the conclusion about the Law...?
 
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Neogaia777

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Of course not. Paul explains in Romans 7. You didn't quote all of Romans 7:7. ;)

7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”b]">[b] 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
I did say Romans 7:7 on, btw...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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Romans is indeed a wonderfully thorough, spiritual argument by an Apostle who was well versed in Old Testament Scriptures but enlightened by the Holy Spirit to faith in the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus. :)
And his careful attentiveness of him coming out of blameless, makes his words difficult sometimes...
 
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SkyWriting

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Paul says, if righteousness can come from following the law, then Christ died for nothing. So effectively saying "Christ died for nothing" with your actions is actually missing the mark, and perhaps even blasphemous.

The post writer said
"...Comments?"
 
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Ron Gurley

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in that they show the WORK of the (Mosaic) Law written in their hearts, (the law of) their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,...Romans 2:15
 
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Bible Highlighter

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"Whatever is not of faith is sin."(Romans 14:23), "The Law (O.C.) is not of faith."(Galatians 3:12), "Is the law sin then...?(Romans 7:7) (and on from verse 7)"

Comments...?

God Bless!

1. Romans 14:23 is true. Anything not of the faith is sin. Men were justified by faith in the Messiah in both covenants, but the laws for each respective covenant one obeyed was different. Even in the Old Covenant, there were different sets of laws for different people groups of the faith. Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.

2. Galatians 3:12 is talking about the condemnation of the false Pharisee religion (that was trying to creep in and deceive the Galatian church). The Pharisees wrongfully believed in trying to be justified or saved under a twisted version of the Old Covenant Law alone without God’s grace, mercy, and faith. How do we know this is true? Well, Jesus condemned the Pharisees because they ignored the weightier matters of the Law like love, faith, mercy, and judgment (Matthew 23:23) (Luke 11:42). Jesus also pointed out that the Pharisees had a problem in not crying out to God to have mercy on their sins (See the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee in Luke 18:9-14). So the Pharisees had turned salvation into a warped and twisted sense of their own version of the Old Law alone without God’s mercy and grace. They made salvation all about law with no mercy and faith. This is why Paul said the Law is not of faith to the Galatians. Paul says to the Galatian church in Galatians 2, “But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:” (Galatians 2:3). In Galatians 5:2, Paul says, “Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.” Circumcision is a part the Old Covenant Law of Moses (that was for Israel). This is the Old Law that is not of the faith anymore. Paul was not referring to New Covenant Laws or Commands that should be obeyed as a part of the faith under the New Covenant. Paul was condemning something that was apart of the Old Law under the Old Covenant (that is no longer in effect). Paul was also condemning the idea of trying to be saved by Law alone without God’s grace and mercy. For the Jews were trying to deceive the Galatians into being justified by being circumcised.

3. Romans 7:7 says, “What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.” Romans 7:7 here is talking about “God’s Eternal Moral Laws” within the Old Law that has carried on over into the New Covenant. For verse 6 says, “But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.” (Romans 7:6). “Thou shalt not covet” is a Law that is a part of both the Old Covenant and New Covenant. But seeing we are delivered from the Old Law, we now are to SERVE in NEWNESS of Spirit (New Covenant) and not in the OLDNESS of the LETTER (Old Covenant). This is why the commandment is still holy, just, and good. Romans 8:2-4 says, “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” We learn that in verse 2 (Romans 8:2) that there are two laws. There is a New Covenant Law called the (1) “Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus” and there is the Old Covenant Law called the (2) “Law of Sin and Death.” According to Romans 8:2, the NT Law sets us free from the OT Law. Romans 8:3 is talking about the Old Law in that it was weak through the flesh (which we see a description of Paul recounting his past experience in struggling with keeping the Old Law as a Pharisee before he was a Christian - See Romans 7:14-24). In Romans 8:3 Jesus condemns sin in the flesh. Jesus sets us free from the Old Law that brought death (i.e. capital punishment for breaking certain laws of God within the Law of Moses). In Romans 8:4, Paul talks about how we are to fulfill the “righteousness” (i.e. that righteous aspect or part) of the Old Law. This would be God’s Eternal Moral Laws. What are these Moral Laws? They are Laws such as: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc. (which is the same as loving one’s neighbor) See Romans 13:8-10.

Conclusion:
Romans 14:23 is referring to New Covenant faith.
Galatians 3:12 is referring to Old Covenant Law and it is referring to being saved by Law keeping alone without God’s mercy, grace, and faith.
Romans 7:7 is referring to God’s Eternal Moral Laws that have carried on over from the Old Covenant and into the New Covenant. Note: Compare the words “what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh,” in Romans 8:3 with Paul’s past struggle with trying to obey the Old Law as a Pharisee (before he was a Christian) in Romans 7:14-24. Paul thanks Jesus at the end of Romans 7 for delivering him from his past struggle in trying to keep the Old Law when he was a Pharisee before he was a Christian. Romans 7:6 and Romans 8:2-4 holds the key to properly understand what Romans 7:7 says. They are basically saying together that God’s Laws (which have always been holy and good - which tell us about sin) have been changed by Christ Jesus upon the cross; That Christ put away the Old Law that could cause physical death for the OT believer, and He now provides for the NT believer a new and better way of providing mercy and grace for them so as to help them serve God’s Laws more perfectly. For Jesus said He came not to destroy the Law but to fulfill it. Meaning He came to bring the Law into it’s fulfilled intended purpose with the giving of the commands within the New Testament. These new commands were focused heavily on love and they operated under a better way of faith by providing mercy and grace to serve God so as to be faithful instead of facing physical death under the Old Covenant for any disobedience. God provides a way so as to help believers overcome their sin in this life. This of course is only possible by the power of Jesus working in a person.

I hope this helps;
And may God bless you.

Sincerely,

~ Jason.
 
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faroukfarouk

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Exactly, now you know why we are not under the law, IF we are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit. Because the Spirit doesn't sin, there is no need for the holy laws telling us NOT to do something, when we wouldn't anyway.
Hebrews 7 indicates that the law was changed and what the New Testament believer now has is better than the law (v.v. 12, 19).
 
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