What would you say?

[david_x]

Thanks for the reference. The entire passage is most interesting. the idea it is saying 'most people oughta be celibate' is an act of faulty logic at best.

I'm not sure you read it. It says the one that can accept it should, that is not most.

Some fundamentalists throw out the wedding at Cana to attack LGBTs, and others offer diverse weapons like this one.

So quick to understand me, label me. I am a Christian and that is all. I will fight for the truth even when both sides are wrong.

ME: "In adition the Church is told that people who do not turn from sinful lives are to be banished. (Which means we have no problem with non-christian/worldly homosexuals)"
YE: "A church which does so does not honor Christ who stood with the outcasts and against the conformists and the fearful."
ME: "You misunderstand. Those people whom Christ spent time with were not of the Church."
YE: "You may have me confused with someone else; i never said they were."

...

According to this most megachurch preachers and religious right leaders ought to have to eat alone, then.

These people are not perfect either. The verse means people that are not sorry, for people that keep breaking a commandment on purpose.

If as it appears you chose that verse to wag your finger at LGBTs, surprise! It's wagging back at you as well.

Do, I am the most terrible of all sinners.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Marriage is a gift from God. Celibacy/Asexuality is not better or worse. Both are gifts from God. I do not believe I was born this way. (Asexual.) David_x, you are not a sinner but a saint. Sinners live in their sin, saints live in Christ, I'm sure you'd say you live in Christ. You were baptized, right? I know that wasn't what you were getting at, but we should accept our status and acknowledge forgiveness.

@jamielindas: It may sound hippie like, but we can do it, we have something to help us.
And I think psychology has developed a "morality development chart".

 

[Texas Lynn]

This makes me want to question the origins and development of people's morality.
Many would say that morality tends to focus on the reduction of suffering/pain and great the most happiness (vague word choice perhaps).

However, many people do not analyze there morals this way... or at all. The inherit their morals from an authority (parent, bible, society, etc) and don't always question them.

This is one of the biggest problems I have with biblical literalists. They have a strict moral code based on scripture, but it doesn't always hold up to objective analysis

Are you familiar with Kohlberg's stages of moral development?

 

[Apollo Celestio]

I took psychology last semester, and this is what I got from it. These are very short summaries.
(Pre-Conventional)
Stage 1: Obedience out of fear of punishment. Whatever avoids punishment is the way to go.
Stage 2: "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours." You work for your own benefit, or at least someone having to owe you.
(Conventional)
Stage 3: Acting to please and help others. "Good boy-nice girl" orientation.
Stage 4: Goes by the system, doing your duty and preserving order. "Right" is respecting authority.
(Post conventional-Not everyone gets here.)
Stage 5: Stands for rights that are generally agreed upon, democratic principles and believe that society is served if we obey the law.
Stage 6: Universal ethical principles, morals are intrinsic and personal, and they abide by those no matter what others think of them. They will break the law if they think what they are doing is moral. (Like stealing medicine from a hospital to save their dying loved one, in a noble case.)

I hope it was accurate. Enjoy analyzing. Psychology is so much more interesting than Physics, don't you think?

 

[david_x]

Marriage is a gift from God. Celibacy/Asexuality is not better or worse.

You could be right the wording can be taken both ways i suppose.

 

[Texas Lynn]

You could be right the wording can be taken both ways i suppose.

A spiritual path to celibacy may be a net positive for many who travel that route; it is their business. Certainly many, maybe most, who travel that route mean well, but to assume it is somehow superior to the sexuality of the rest of us is just arrogance. To paraphrase Kurt Vonnegut, much of the "man's inhumanity to man" over these issues consists of one aspiring elitist group absolutely disgusted by the ordinary sexuality, of all orientations, of average men and women.

 

[Tenebrae]

There are many scenarios where this question would apply:

What would you say to your child when they have told you they are gay?

Give them a big hug, tell them they are loved and valued, and if they ever need to talk to me about it, then they are most welcome.

What would you say to a fellow Christian who has just come out as being gay?

"You look like you need a coffee, shall I stick the kettle on?"

What would you say to a non-Christian who is gay that wants to know about Christianity?

I'd introduce them to the wonderful people at the local GBLT congregation. If they asked my personal feelings on it tell them quite honestly I dont get how the two are reconciled, and that I think that the followers of Jesus Christ have a much bigger problem with it than Jesus ever would have

Should they be told that God does not create sinners, that they are not really gay, or that they should come back when they are straight to ask questions about the Christian religion?

Absolutely NO to all those questions. I would be first introducing them to the wonderful people at the local GLBT church, and secondly letting them know that if they need a listening ear, then they know where I am

Can we pray with them?

Is this a trick question? The esscence of the gospel is that in the midst of our brokenness, our sinfullness, that Jesus came for us. We dont have to clean up, and come up to some human constructed standard before they are deemed worthy enough to be helped by the christian church.

I would like to, at least, start there: with prayer. I need a lot of prayer and all of you are welcome to add me and my various issues to your prayer list.

Praying for you bro

I can do none other than express the love that I believe God shows for all of creation...

 

[david_x]

To paraphrase Kurt Vonnegut, much of the "man's inhumanity to man" over these issues consists of one aspiring elitist group absolutely disgusted by the ordinary sexuality, of all orientations, of average men and women.

To be fair sexuality is way out of whack all around us.