What would you do?

[nyj]

So, I actually managed to drag myself out of bed and attend daily Mass this morning. As I walked into the church (I was a few minutes early... a rarity for me!) I grabbed a bulletin and took a seat. I was flipping through the bulletin and started looking at the advertising on the back (most bulletins have advertising on the back to defray the printing costs) and saw one ad that caught my eye. It said "Bearz 3020 Club" and that the owner of the club was a parishoner. Well, something about that name struck me as odd and so when I got to work, I did a websearch on the name and sure enough... it's a gay bar.

Now, the question is: Should I email the church in question about this (since this is only the second time I've ever attended a Mass at this parish) or try to bring it up directly to the pastor when I get the chance to talk to him (which could be a long time happening)? Or, should I let them handle this themselves?

 

[Avila]

Ooohhhh... I think the pastor needs to know. Is it advertised as a gay bar or is it one that just happens to have been taken over by homosexuals? At any rate, I'm sure they'd be shocked if they knew that it was a gay bar.... I would probably try to make it a point to seek the pastor out ASAP to let him know. Don't rely on e-mail - sometimes they can get lost or not forwarded to the right ppl. Praying for you and that parish....

 

[nyj]

Originally posted by Avila
Ooohhhh... I think the pastor needs to know. Is it advertised as a gay bar or is it one that just happens to have been taken over by homosexuals?

I agree, the pastor does need to know, I just wondered whether myself (an outsider) should get involved in this matter. Though, I might gather up some information and present it to Father after Mass tomorrow morning. As far as how it's advertised... the slogan on the bulletin ad reads "It's a neighborhood kinda place." which seems rather innocuous in and of itself, until one understands the neighborhood where the club is located. The neighborhood surrounding the club is considered in OKC to be the "gay district" as there are a multitude of gay bars in that locale (which I found out about immediately upon my arrival to OKC when my co-workers "invited" me out for a couple of drinks on a Saturday night... sending me to a gay bar and then never showing up themselves).

At any rate, I'm sure they'd be shocked if they knew that it was a gay bar.... I would probably try to make it a point to seek the pastor out ASAP to let him know. Don't rely on e-mail - sometimes they can get lost or not forwarded to the right ppl. Praying for you and that parish....

Well, at least I'd hope the pastor would be shocked. I'll try to talk to him tomorrow, and I'll need those prayers.

 

[soulsisterclaire]

Why would any bar be okay to advertise in a church publication?

 

[PrinceJeff]

Yeah I agree. The town I used to live in we had a new restaurant come in and the owner opened up a bar next door as well. The churches prayed together and eventually everything imploded. PTL!

 

[ZiSunka]

Now, the question is: Should I email the church in question about this (since this is only the second time I've ever attended a Mass at this parish) or try to bring it up directly to the pastor when I get the chance to talk to him (which could be a long time happening)? Or, should I let them handle this themselves?

If you are sure that it is a gay bar, you need to let the church know. They are probably clueless, since the owner is a parishoner and they probably don't have any reason to think he'd own a gay bar.

They need to be aware, not only because of the advertising, but because this parishoner needs to be counselled about how his business life and spiritual life need to be synchronized! No church should be sponsored by any bar, and no Christian should be in a business that promotes immorality!

 

[nyj]

Originally posted by soulsisterclaire
Why would any bar be okay to advertise in a church publication?

Well, in this instance it's advertised as a "club", but that is neither here nor there. Personally however I don't see what is wrong with advertising a bar in a church bulletin. Do you mean to tell me that bar owners can't be good Christians? Is a bar somehow inherently evil? If people drink moderately (even Christ drank alcohol) and responsibly and the owner is a responsible citizen who takes his patrons and business seriously, a bar can be a respectable public business just like anything else.

Same goes for liquor stores. If you want to get legalistic about it, you may as well not advertise any restaurants that sell alcohol... or is that somehow different?

 

[ZiSunka]

Do you mean to tell me that bar owners can't be good Christians? Is a bar somehow inherently evil?

I think that most of us might think that a Christian shouldn't be offering the opportunity for another to sin. Sure, most people in a bar aren't drinking to get drunk, but some of them are, and some who do will go out to commit other sins, like beating their wife and kids.

Plus, you don't have to be sloppy drunk to hurt someone with your car, if you drive after drinking. My driving ability is impaired after one drink, even though I wouldn't be legally drunk until after three drinks.

Plus, a lot of immoral activity starts in bars. Guys go there to find women for sex, and visa versa.\

And, I've known more than one marriage that was ruined by one or the other of the spouses frenquenting bars instead of being home in the evening.

So, although bars may not be inherently evil, they provide many opportunities for evil to happen.

 

[nyj]

Lambslove,

The world is filled with danger and fraught with situations where abuse can occur. Restaurants and supermarkets provide people the opportunity for them to indulge in gluttony, a sin. One could buy all sorts of dangerous items from hardware stores with which to injure people. People might use items from home improvement stores (like Home Depot) to make items for sexually deviant behavior. Banks allow people to indulge in the love of money, a particular sin pointed out by the Bible. The workplace is the main cause of sexual infidelity (not bars). This list could go on and on (Do I even need to mention the temptations posed by the internet?).

Fact of the matter is, people can abuse whatever they want, wherever they want. What matters is how we as Christians live our lives and how we respond to the situations around us. Just about everything can cause us to sin and can be an occassion to sin. Like the Bible said, He looked upon His creation and saw that it was good. He didn't create anything evil, He created it all good, and it is all good... until we twist it and force it to work for evil.

As Christians, we should take responsibility for our actions. If you don't want to go to a bar because to you it represents a particular tough temptation, that is your choice. But condemning it outright is wrong because it isn't condemnable by its very nature.

 

[KC Catholic]

I'd definitely approach the priest and office staff and make them aware of the situation. It is our duty to witness to the teachings of the church.

And given the current situation with the Church getting pummeled in the media, we need all the helps and reminders.

I'd let them know.

 

[Miss Shelby]

Originally posted by nyj


Now, the question is: Should I email the church in question about this (since this is only the second time I've ever attended a Mass at this parish) or try to bring it up directly to the pastor when I get the chance to talk to him (which could be a long time happening)? Or, should I let them handle this themselves?

What if you just called the parish rectory and asked to speak to the person in charge of selling the ads for the bulletin? It could be that they are simply unaware of the fact that it's a gay bar.


Michelle

 

[ZiSunka]

People might use items from home improvement stores (like Home Depot) to make items for sexually deviant behavior. Banks allow people to indulge in the love of money, a particular sin pointed out by the Bible. The workplace is the main cause of sexual infidelity (not bars). This list could go on and on (Do I even need to mention the temptations posed by the internet?).

And prostitutes don't make people sin. Evil desires make people sin. Why not embrace prostitution?

The purpose of banks is to give people a safe place to invest and hold their money. Some people may hoard money, but that is not what banks are for.

Workplaces give people income to live on. There may be some sin that goes on, but sin is not the reason that workplaces exist.

Home Depot exists to give people a place to by home goods. Some people may use the tools in immoral ways, but that is not the reason the tools were made.

Bars exist to give people places to go to drink. That's the only reason they exist. When bars lose their liquor licenses, they go out of business. Drinking leads to all manor of sin, because it represses your inhibitions and makes immoral things seem okay. Banks don't do that, tools don't do that, offices don't do that. Of your list, only drinking does.

Christians ought to avoid anything that lowers one's resistence to sin. And churches ought to avoid advertising anything that lowers one's resistence to sin. Period.

 

[KC Catholic]

Originally posted by lambslove
Home Depot exists to give people a place to by home goods. Some people may use the tools in immoral ways, but that is not the reason the tools were mad.

Hey..I confessed I spent too much time in Home Depot! Just kidding. I L-O-V-E that place.

Originally posted by lambslove
Christians ought to avoid anything that lowers one's resistence to sin. And churches ought to avoid advertising anything that lowers one's resistence to sin. Period.

I think you have a good point here. Although I do enjoy a good brew now and then. With 4 kids, who has time for a bar?

 

[ZiSunka]

Haing a beer at home isn't a terrible thing. At home, it's about refreshment, and there isn't much trouble you can get into, from just one beer at home.

Going to a bar invites all kinds of trouble, though, at a time when you can least resist it.

 

[soulsisterclaire]

The fact that it is a "club" makes it even worse, IMO of course.

 

[patriarch]

NYJ,

First of all, whether you belong to the parish or not, you are Catholic and you have the standing to bring anything to any pastor's attention.

Secondly, if you want to appear that you know what you are doing *write a letter* to the pastor in this form:

Dear Father So and So,

In the bulletin for the week of (date) is an ad for (the name of the Club), address, placed by so and so who identifies himself as a parishioner.

However, this club has the reputation for being a "gay bar." To substantiate that this reputation is deserved, I have talked with Captain So and So of the OKC vice squad, the Rev So and So of XYZ ministries who has an outreach in the area, Captain so and so and the Rev so and so both assure me that the reputation is well deserved. In addition I have visited the club myself and have ascertained that it has a clientle consisting only of men, and makes available to the clientele various "gay" publications. There are various salacious works of art placed throughout. In other words, this is not the kind of place with which your parish would want to be associated in any way.

I thought that you would like to be made aware of this, Father, and I would appreciate some assurance from you that the ad will be dropped from the bulletin.

Thanks very much


NYJ (day phone, evening phone).

Here you have to keep in mind that the print stock on which the bulletin is printed may take some time to deplete, perhaps a month or more.

But in two months, if the ad is still running, I would write a letter to the bishop in this form:

Your Excellency,

Enclosed is a copy of a letter which I sent to the Rev So and So, Pastor of St Such and Such on date, at address thus and such. His phone number is xxx-xxx-xxxx.

To date he has not acted on this matter, but this is a cause for scandal, and the presence of an ad for such an establishment is in violation of canon law xxxx, which reads xxxx.

Sincerely,

NYJ

Don't expect a reply. If they take action, that is all the thanks you are likely to get.

 

[Dave Ulchers]

If you don't want to risk calumny or detraction, you can always bring the problem up in the confessional. As in: "Father, I've been tempted to commit calumny because the bulletin is advertising a gay bar, and I'm not sure what to say about it."

Is this approach totally backhanded?

 

[Religious Crisis]

Originally posted by nyj
Lambslove,


Fact of the matter is, people can abuse whatever they want, wherever they want. What matters is how we as Christians live our lives and how we respond to the situations around us. Just about everything can cause us to sin and can be an occassion to sin. Like the Bible said, He looked upon His creation and saw that it was good. He didn't create anything evil, He created it all good, and it is all good... until we twist it and force it to work for evil.

As Christians, we should take responsibility for our actions. If you don't want to go to a bar because to you it represents a particular tough temptation, that is your choice. But condemning it outright is wrong because it isn't condemnable by its very nature.

Well put.

 

[soulsisterclaire]

Praise God!

 

[JohnR7]

>>I just wondered whether myself (an outsider) should get involved in this matter

In general, if you have questions, I would talk to the pastor about it, to find out what his explaination is. They are there to help us when we have a question about something. Or if there is something we do not understand.

If they have an opinion different than you. I would not fight with them about it. Just let them know what your opinion is, and acknowledge that you understand what their position or opinion is. Thanks, JohnR7