What would you do?

[Gnarwhal]

A little over a year ago some serious problems came up with my wife's parents, and ever since then they have been on this roller coaster of "on again, off again" drama. They're "good" for a while, then they're "doing bad", new issues arise that restart the whole mess, and it's a perpetual cycle of chaos.

Her mom is constantly calling her and trying to pour out all of her feelings and emotions regarding her dad or she'll try to preoccupy herself with my wife's company; yet she isn't actually being proactive in fixing any of the problems (at least half of which reside with herself). Her mom's a "counselor" (I use the quotes because she has an associates degree and works for the state counseling people issued DUI's—I don't consider her a legitimate therapist in the same fashion as a private practice counselor who has greater education and experience), so she thinks she's equipped to "fix" herself and that it's appropriate and sufficient to do so. She knows all the psychological jargon to make herself feel as though she's conquering the problems and progressing, but she's not.

Their relationship defines insanity.

My question lies here: What would you do if your spouse was caught in the middle of this cycle, and perhaps one of their parents was constantly leaning on them for emotional support and help to the point that they were in tears almost every night because it was taking so much out of them yet there was no improvement? Yet despite your spouses best efforts to establish appropriate parent-child boundaries, their love for their parents ends up defeating those boundaries and drawing them back into the madness?

I know how I would like to respond but I would also like to hear some of your guys' thoughts on here.

 

[dallasapple]

The best thing you can do is be there for your wife of course..You probably arent going to be able to "make her" not be there for her mother..

However..you could remind your wife that YOU LOVE HER and from your angle you see this situation as a destructive force in her daily life..and its affecting YOU like a ripple affect too..because you worry about her..

If her mother is any kind of counselor she should know that counselors cant COUNSEL themselves any more than a non counselor like us..Of course she can work on herself without counseling..but so can we ALL..we all have that ability..But what Im sying is the fact that shes a counselor(I dont care if she a PHD psychologist) doesnt EXLUDE her from ever NEEDING counseling or from being able to benefit from one.

You probably know that..but the fact her mother thinks shes excluded because she IS a counselor makes me question her intelligence.

(((HUGS)))

Dallas

 

[iambren]

"their love for their parents ends up defeating those boundaries and drawing them back into the madness?"

Convince her that THIS is not love.

 

[iambren]

"their love for their parents ends up defeating those boundaries and drawing them back into the madness?"

Convince her that THIS is not love.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Don't pay the phone bill.

 

[Gnarwhal]

The best thing you can do is be there for your wife of course..You probably arent going to be able to "make her" not be there for her mother..

However..you could remind your wife that YOU LOVE HER and from your angle you see this situation as a destructive force in her daily life..and its affecting YOU like a ripple affect too..because you worry about her..

If her mother is any kind of counselor she should know that counselors cant COUNSEL themselves any more than a non counselor like us..Of course she can work on herself without counseling..but so can we ALL..we all have that ability..But what Im sying is the fact that shes a counselor(I dont care if she a PHD psychologist) doesnt EXLUDE her from ever NEEDING counseling or from being able to benefit from one.

You probably know that..but the fact her mother thinks shes excluded because she IS a counselor makes me question her intelligence.

(((HUGS)))

Dallas

The dilemma is that my wife desperately wants her mom to just be her mom, we both agree that it's inappropriate for any parent to confide so deeply into their children regarding their own marital problems (because both parents are the subject of the discussion, albeit with extreme bias because the discussion only involves one of the parents).

Essentially, I feel her mom is failing to respect and honor her as her daughter by deliberately ignoring her wishes, and I feel inclined to step in soon if this continues and reprimand her mom for hurting her daughter so deeply by involving her.

I guess my question, by extension, is would you do the same for your spouse or would you think such a course of action is inappropriate?

"their love for their parents ends up defeating those boundaries and drawing them back into the madness?"

Convince her that THIS is not love.

I think she's seeing that as well...but you're right.

Don't pay the phone bill.

Heh, that's tempting...

 

[dallasapple]

The dilemma is that my wife desperately wants her mom to just be her mom, we both agree that it's inappropriate for any parent to confide so deeply into their children regarding their own marital problems (because both parents are the subject of the discussion, albeit with extreme bias because the discussion only involves one of the parents).

Essentially, I feel her mom is failing to respect and honor her as her daughter by deliberately ignoring her wishes, and I feel inclined to step in soon if this continues and reprimand her mom for hurting her daughter so deeply by involving her.

I guess my question, by extension, is would you do the same for your spouse or would you think such a course of action is inappropriate?

I understand..yes I would do the same after that period of time with no resolution ..and no I dont think such course of action is innapropriate.

The mother being not just a counselor but a mother..should realize IF she is mentally coherent/stable..that even though her daughter is an adult ..it can affect her negatively hearing detailed trash talk about her father.All of us whether we realize it or not..gain a big part of our identity and self esteem (good and bad) by looking at our parents as models..

I have had to learn that and have had to have quite a few heart to hearts with my own children asking thier forgiveness for allowing them to hear things they shouldnt have about thier dad during our arguments that were loud..As well as apologize for some of my own behavior that in retrospect was extrememly selfish..Unfortunately I followed a pattern my mother set for me when I was growing up..

Her mother needs to realize that sooner than later..and find a balance in confiding in her daughter without demonizing her dad..or putting her in the middle ...

If you need to step in ...then its not innapropriate its right..

Dallas

 

[hijklmnop]

Personally I would share all the thoughts and opinions you have about how unhealthy the nature of their relationship is and the importance of her making boundaries and actually STICKING to them, but I wouldn't step in and interfere unless she gave me permission to do so (I would ask). It's her relationship, she's an adult, making sure the relationship is healthy is her responsibility, and she might resent you stepping in and doing what she's not ready or willing to do yet.

 

[hijklmnop]

Essentially, I feel her mom is failing to respect and honor her as her daughter by deliberately ignoring her wishes, and I feel inclined to step in soon if this continues and reprimand her mom for hurting her daughter so deeply by involving her.

You're right, her mom is being disrespectful, however, on the flip side of that coin, your wife is making boundaries but not enforcing them, which is teaching her mom that what she says doesn't matter...she will cave anyways. If she REALLY doesn't want her mom talking to her about marital problems or whatever, she needs to cut her mom off as soon as it starts, remind her that she doesn't want to hear it, and hang up on her or ask her to leave if she won't respect that limit. HOWEVER...no one can do that but your wife, IMO. My advice would be talk to your wife, pray, and just support her when she needs it. In fact, stepping in uninvited may drive a wedge between you and your wife instead of your wife and her mother.

 

[CarrieAnnC]

Support your wife, let her vent to you and only give advice if she asks you for advice.

 

[dallasapple]

I was going to add your wife sounds like she may be in a co-dependent relationship with her mother..Thats the only reason I might consider stepping in..of course you should ask your wifes permission I wouldnt suggest going behind her back..

But Im trying to imagine if this was my husband and it was his mother..and it was my husband stressed out everyday ...and crying himself to sleep..and he seemed to be in a sense allowing himself to be a doormat and falling for his mothers continued "cries for help" after he dad clearly expressed he was distressed over the whole ordeal..I would step in and say somethign to the mother..After a year?And he had expressed his wishes to not be that involved ?I would help him..

It could be as simple as you REPEATING the bounderies to the mother and pointing out they had not been respected..and that YOU are the one that sees her crying herself to sleep and you are her husband and feel the need to step in and protect her because you love her..Its not just her relationship with her mother its affecting you too..and you could tell the mother that to ..that YOU are tired of it not just her daughter..BOTH of you are tired of it ..your wife has asked for her to respect that..she has NOT done so..so now you are respectfully asking her to stop it.

For whatever reason your wife doesnt have to strenght..but since she is the one that has EXPRESSED her wishes for it to stop and has already told her mother that..I wouldnt feel like you were interfering simply by helping her enforce her already expressed wishes.

Dallas

 

[dallasapple]

I agree too on letting your wife vent..and supporting her..I think thats what you have done right?

The way I understand what you are sayign is its not just her venting..that its moved to a "crazy cycle'..and your wife is having difficulty breaking the cycle..So letting her vent and supporting her isnt the issue.

Because it sounds like(correct me if Im wrong) but the vent to you is she WANTS HER MOTHER TO STOP IT..and she has TOLD her mother that..and her mother is IGNORING her wishes..Thats the vent right?

So how can you "support" her on that?Ask her permission to say a few words to her mother..Like.."my concern is my wife..she cries herself to sleep..she has asked you to back off and respect she LOVES her father and you are putting her in the middle..and this has gone on a year now with no progress and its reached a point its affecting her that you wil NOT respect her wishes..so Im with her permission asking you to respect her bounderies..You can say I LIVE with her..I see what this is doing to her..its gone too far..Im her husband I love her and I want it to stop becasue SHE wants it to stop.The end.

Dallas

 

[beckyjustbecky]

A little over a year ago some serious problems came up with my wife's parents, and ever since then they have been on this roller coaster of "on again, off again" drama. They're "good" for a while, then they're "doing bad", new issues arise that restart the whole mess, and it's a perpetual cycle of chaos.

Her mom is constantly calling her and trying to pour out all of her feelings and emotions regarding her dad or she'll try to preoccupy herself with my wife's company; yet she isn't actually being proactive in fixing any of the problems (at least half of which reside with herself). Her mom's a "counselor" (I use the quotes because she has an associates degree and works for the state counseling people issued DUI's—I don't consider her a legitimate therapist in the same fashion as a private practice counselor who has greater education and experience), so she thinks she's equipped to "fix" herself and that it's appropriate and sufficient to do so. She knows all the psychological jargon to make herself feel as though she's conquering the problems and progressing, but she's not.

Their relationship defines insanity.

My question lies here: What would you do if your spouse was caught in the middle of this cycle, and perhaps one of their parents was constantly leaning on them for emotional support and help to the point that they were in tears almost every night because it was taking so much out of them yet there was no improvement? Yet despite your spouses best efforts to establish appropriate parent-child boundaries, their love for their parents ends up defeating those boundaries and drawing them back into the madness?

I know how I would like to respond but I would also like to hear some of your guys' thoughts on here.

What would I do?
Well I'm in a similar situation where my Mother tries to lean on me for support, to occupy her time, for reassurance, for everything really. My Mum has other issues. But yes, it did cause a strain on my marriage for a while.

What I would say though, is that is her MOTHER at the end of the day, as much as your wife loves you, the bond with her mother is entirely different. I wouldn't dictate or tell your wife how she's "enabling her mother," or anything of that sort. You need to love your wife, tell her how your proud of her for trying her hardest to help her mother. Admire her heart because your wife is genuinely trying to do what she thinks is right to do. She isn't going to see how useless her efforts are by anyone talking her OR HER MUM down.

This was going on with my Mum since I can remember, I only realised a few months back how she was guilting me into helping her, my mother has other issues which cause her to be very manipulative. I couldn't see that even though everyone else could. This really frustrated my husband because he could see exactly how I was being manipulated. He seen the upset she caused me almost daily, I cried myself to sleep so often and I felt that because she was my Mother I HAD to help her, because without her I wouldnt have life. (this is the manipulation she used to make me believe what she was saying was true)

Anyway about 2 months or so my husband sat me down. Told me how proud he was of me for never giving up on her, never turning my back on her when everyone else did. And then he asked me a few questions like -How does it make you feel when your mum just offloads on you all the time?
-So out of all the advice you've given her, how much of it does she apply?
-What is she doing right now to help herself? (the answer to that was nothing!)
-So why do you use all your energy, your time, your strength, your efforts trying to help someone who won't even help themselves?

I realised then that my Mother LOVES a pity party, she loves being the centre of attention and she'll do just about anything to become that. I've learned to distance myself, I've learned that she needs to take steps to help herself before I can try again, I've learned that it is not my responsibility to fix her life for her.

Your wife will see the wood from the tree's with your help, but you need to be a support rather than a nagging complaining needy husband (which is the approach mine took at first and it drove me closer to my mum to get away from his nagging!!) Love her, be proud of her efforts but KINDLY help her see the reality of the situation.
I hoe that helps.

ETA- Im not implying that you ARE a nagging husband I'm just comparing both approached to the situation because in my case Id dealt with both and the loving supportive approach was far more effective.