What would you do for unity?

The Times

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2017
2,581
805
Australia
✟90,081.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
All im suggesting is that we seek the unity that the apostles teach us

No, not in the last days. The unity of the invisible Church must be strength in diversity of numbers. Coming under the one resident evil umbrella is a recipe for disaster. Unity under the one umbrella is the great falling away.
 
Upvote 0

The Times

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2017
2,581
805
Australia
✟90,081.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
@W2L

Who Incited David to Count the Fighting Men of Israel—God or Satan?
Again the anger of the Lord was aroused against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, “Go, number Israel and Judah.” (2 Samuel 24:1)Now Satan stood up against Israel, and moved David to number Israel. (1 Chronicles 21:1)

Satan Actively Tempts, God Permits Temptation
Satan, as an enemy, suggested this census as an occasion to incite a sin, just as he also put it into the heart of Judas to betray Christ. Satan is frequently described in Scripture as doing what God merely permits to be done; and so, in this case, He permitted Satan to tempt David. Satan was the active mover, while God only withdrew His supporting grace, and the great adversary prevailed against the king. (For other examples of God permitting temptation and it being ascribed to Him, see 2 Samuel 16:7–13; 1 Kings 22:20–23; Psalm 105:24–25.) God as righteous Judge in this instance permitted it with the design that from this sin of David He would take occasion to punish Israel for other sins, for which He might justly have otherwise punished them.

Read zechariah 14
A day of the Lord is coming, Jerusalem, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.

2I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. 3Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle

If you put God's army of denominations under the same umbrella, then you commit the sin of David, where God will remove his Grace and allow the Church congregations to be slaughtered and the shepherds will bear the responsibility and the blood will be on their hands.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

The Times

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2017
2,581
805
Australia
✟90,081.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
You don't need to yell! If you tried harder you could have made the font larger and bold bolder.... :)

Copy and paste and too lazy to change it on the fly. Thanks for bringing it to my attention, I will change it immediately.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

EastCoastRemnant

I Must Decrease That He May Increase
Supporter
Dec 8, 2010
7,665
1,505
Nova Scotia
✟188,109.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
All im suggesting is that we seek the unity that the apostles teach us
And that unity is obedience to Christ and the Father. That obedience is only possible through the Love that the Father gives us through His Spirit... the same Spirit that Jesus prayed for to sustain Himself during His ministry... we are to be one in the Spirit, being lead by the Spirit into faithful loving obedience to His Commands.

It has been said on here before but I will say it again. I don't steal from my neighbour because I love him not because there is an earthly and eternal penalty to pay... I worship God alone because only He sent His Son to pay my debt and I love him for it.... I don't sleep with another woman because I love my wife not because she will divorce me... I set apart the one day of the week to worship God that He Sanctified and made Holy because He created me and everything around me and wants to spend special time with me...
 
Upvote 0

EastCoastRemnant

I Must Decrease That He May Increase
Supporter
Dec 8, 2010
7,665
1,505
Nova Scotia
✟188,109.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Pay attention sir, Transubstantiation is a Western custom that is not followed by Eastern Christians. We simply call it a mystery, and don't worry HOW the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Christ. This is shown in all four of the Gospels. You cannot show me ONE verse of Scripture that says that the Eucharist is AGAINST the Word of God.

Instead of worrying about whats not in the Bible, just live by the precepts already contained inside... why does man think he needs to improve what the Bible already teaches.

Peter explained what happens at baptism when he said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38). But he did not restrict this teaching to adults. He added, "For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him" (2:39). We also read: "Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name" (Acts 22:16). These commands are universal, not restricted to adults. Further, these commands make clear the necessary connection between baptism and salvation, a
connection explicitly stated in 1 Peter 3:21: "Baptism . . . now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

One problem with that reasoning... the Bible say we must repent and be baptized. A child under the age of accountability cannot repent because a loving God would not hold them accountable in the judgement. Didn't Jesus teach that in order to receive eternal life we must become as little children? That is the state of innocence we receive through His blood. Children already have it.

Indulgences, as they were sold during Martin Luther's days, have been acknowledged by the Church as wrongdoing, and they have apologized for it. However, an indulgence was a "get out of jail" card for this world, and not the next. Penances (in other words, the reparations that you have to make for you to be in good spiritual health) were especially severe back then. Time in stocks, wearing sackcloth and ashes, etc. They would not just be for three or four hours. Penances could run months, and maybe years. So an indulgence would get a person out of his punishment for 90 days from the year assigned.

Please provide scripture for the need of earthly penance... whaen did Jesus or any of the Aposltes require that of a new Christian?

The idea of Purgatory is kind of old fashioned nowadays. So there is no need for years in prayer trying to rescue a soul from purgatory. However, did you know that all of the people in purgatory are actually saved? They are! So there is no worrying about the salvation of pious old aunt Jessie, who was Catholic, and went to Mass every day, and then she went to the soup kitchen and volunteered her time there. She's in heaven.

Again where in the Bible does it reference purgatory? And how do you know the spiritual state of someone in this mythical place?

As for asking the saints (the dead in heaven--and if that ruins your idea of "soul sleep," too bad. The saints are our friends, and they, in turn, pass our prayers, along with theirs, to Jesus, to the Father.

Do you think Heavens a place of no more suffering or tears for a deceased parent to watch their children being raped, abused, or living in poverty? The dead in heaven scenario is only tenable during the good times... people are ashamed before God that He knows their deep dark secrets let alone their relatives and those they once loved. What kind of a god would allow that?

Relics? If you have a picture of Aunt Jessie, and you really loved her, wouldn't you keep a photo of her on your dresser or nightstand? Or, what about the bones of Elisha, who was so holy that when he died, and just his bones were left, some dead guy was thrown in, and that guy came back to life (2Kings 13:21) And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.

And then there are the cloths that people would touch to Peter and the Apostles, and take them home, or bring them to a sick person, and the cloth would HEAL them. Or for that matter, how about Peter's shadow?

Etc. Etc. Etc.

What do any of those things have to do with salvation or the commission Jesus gave to us? Sound like things the heathen idolators would do.
 
Upvote 0

AnticipateHisComing

Newbie
Supporter
Dec 21, 2013
2,787
574
✟103,332.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I've spent enough time as a Protestant that I know what Sola Scriptura is, and I understand the context.
Then you should not question my reason for leaving the Lutheran Church based on my reading of the Bible.
For instance, what about John 21:25? “And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.” Or, what about “Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.”

With that in mind, that the acts of Jesus alone would take up all the books in the world, and that Paul himself spoke about holding the TRADITIONS that he taught. Now we see that if traditions are allowed by Paul, then we should be able to keep those traditions now.

What are those traditions? Nobody knows, exactly, but seeing as there is no writing of Jesus acts after the Resurrection, (save going to lunch, or fishing and feeding His apostles on the beach or finally proving that He really was who He claimed to be) we find that we are left with maybe 35 days that are not documented.
I am not going to engage in a long debate here on Sola Scriptura. I had a thread on the defense of it. You may dig that up if you like.

I will say that the John passage is a closing comment and a reference to what Jesus did in his whole life, not after his resurrection.

As to Paul's comment, did the Catholic Church never write down the traditions Paul taught? Do you understand the irony of quoting the Bible as being a tradition? Catholics always make much ado about formalizing the canon. What year was that? Is the Bible still passed down orally as tradition? But, after 2000 years you still form new "traditions", as in the Popes writings. Learn from Jesus' rebuke of the Pharisee's traditions. Not all "traditions" are God inspired. Today we have the Bible that we know is to be read as unquestionably true and will always be true. No where else is this found.

What Jesus did after his resurrection is documented. You fantasize about what Jesus should have done in those days. I trust scripture recorded his important actions we are to know happened. I believe his sporadic time spent with his disciples after his resurrection is due to him being in his glorified state. Regardless, Jesus only made appearances to prove he was alive, not present any new teachings. He had three years of that. What makes you think he needed just a few more days to add something new and so important and yet it was not recorded?
 
Upvote 0

AnticipateHisComing

Newbie
Supporter
Dec 21, 2013
2,787
574
✟103,332.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Is it possible, yes or no, that Jesus was teaching his apostles how to conduct the Liturgy of the Eucharist?

Again, only a yes or no answer please, and then proof FROM SCRIPTURE that this is so.
No.

Matthew 26:29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”


Now answer me a question. What tradition not recorded in scripture is required for salvation? Another question the Catholic and Orthodox have failed to answer.
 
Upvote 0

AnticipateHisComing

Newbie
Supporter
Dec 21, 2013
2,787
574
✟103,332.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Sorry, but I am not saying that my church is superior. But I have seen and heard these things coming from Protestant churches. I know, because I was there!
So because you grew up in a Protestant church that said bad things about Catholics, you have the mission to belittle them now and generalize them all the same? I would like to know what Protestant church and how many years you grew up in it? What prompted you to leave it?
 
Upvote 0

Gottservant

God loves your words, may men love them also
Supporter
Aug 3, 2006
11,380
704
45
✟276,687.00
Faith
Messianic
I haven't read everything, but it is a sort of nagging question that at the very least deserves the beginning of a response.

I would change, what the Holy Spirit asked me to change.

Actually, it might surprise you most denominations think they are doing this and that for that reason...

... it has just never dawned on them to ask.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

W2L

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2016
20,081
10,988
USA
✟213,573.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
No, not in the last days. The unity of the invisible Church must be strength in diversity of numbers. Coming under the one resident evil umbrella is a recipe for disaster. Unity under the one umbrella is the great falling away.
I dont believe unity is possible.
 
Upvote 0

W2L

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2016
20,081
10,988
USA
✟213,573.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
@W2L


If you put God's army of denominations under the same umbrella, then you commit the sin of David, where God will remove his Grace and allow the Church congregations to be slaughtered and the shepherds will bear the responsibility and the blood will be on their hands.
I dont agree.
 
Upvote 0

W2L

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2016
20,081
10,988
USA
✟213,573.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
And that unity is obedience to Christ and the Father. That obedience is only possible through the Love that the Father gives us through His Spirit... the same Spirit that Jesus prayed for to sustain Himself during His ministry... we are to be one in the Spirit, being lead by the Spirit into faithful loving obedience to His Commands.

It has been said on here before but I will say it again. I don't steal from my neighbour because I love him not because there is an earthly and eternal penalty to pay... I worship God alone because only He sent His Son to pay my debt and I love him for it.... I don't sleep with another woman because I love my wife not because she will divorce me... I set apart the one day of the week to worship God that He Sanctified and made Holy because He created me and everything around me and wants to spend special time with me...
Thanks for the Re
 
Upvote 0

Monk Brendan

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jul 21, 2016
4,636
2,875
72
Phoenix, Arizona
Visit site
✟294,400.00
Country
United States
Faith
Melkite Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Instead of worrying about whats not in the Bible, just live by the precepts already contained inside... why does man think he needs to improve what the Bible already teaches.

It is not the Bible that saves us. The bible is paper and ink. However, I was answering YOUR questions about these things. YOU brought up transubstantiation, and all the other topics. Therefore, sir, it is you that has to explain your fascination with these topics.

Please provide scripture for the need of earthly penance... whaen did Jesus or any of the Aposltes require that of a new Christian?

“If a man shall deliver unto his neighbor money or stuff to keep, and it be stolen out of the man's house; if the thief be found, let him pay double.” (Exodus 22:7) This is one example--again, we are talking about earthly punishments.

One problem with that reasoning... the Bible say we must repent and be baptized. A child under the age of accountability cannot repent because a loving God would not hold them accountable in the judgement. Didn't Jesus teach that in order to receive eternal life we must become as little children? That is the state of innocence we receive through His blood. Children already have it.

No child is innocent. I have heard, out of the mouths of eminent Protestant ministers, that the soul of the child begins making judgments while still in the womb, and those judgments can backfire, and carry through to spiritual problems in adulthood.

Again where in the Bible does it reference purgatory? And how do you know the spiritual state of someone in this mythical place?

How about this one: Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. (1Cor 3:11-12)

So there will be a time of refinement before you get to enjoy the treasures of heaven. You are saved, but you are not yet perfect, therefore, you can't yet be in heaven--you are dead here on earth, remember, so what would you call this non-mythical place?

What do any of those things have to do with salvation or the commission Jesus gave to us? Sound like things the heathen idolators would do.

Again, YOU brought up these topics, not me. If the topic of relics interests you, there are plenty of Catholic and Orthodox websites that will be able to give you what you want to know.

 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Monk Brendan

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jul 21, 2016
4,636
2,875
72
Phoenix, Arizona
Visit site
✟294,400.00
Country
United States
Faith
Melkite Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
One problem with that reasoning... the Bible say we must repent and be baptized. A child under the age of accountability cannot repent because a loving God would not hold them accountable in the judgement. Didn't Jesus teach that in order to receive eternal life we must become as little children? That is the state of innocence we receive through His blood. Children already have it.

Where in the Bible does it say, "age of accountability?"

Children are wicked, just like adults.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Monk Brendan

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jul 21, 2016
4,636
2,875
72
Phoenix, Arizona
Visit site
✟294,400.00
Country
United States
Faith
Melkite Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I will say that the John passage is a closing comment and a reference to what Jesus did in his whole life, not after his resurrection.

Forgive me, but it is an Apostle of the Lord saying this, and under inspiration of the Holy Spirit. If it wasn't something that needed to be said, the Holy Spirit would not have prompted John to write it. Yes it is his whole life, but the "comment" stands

As to Paul's comment, did the Catholic Church never write down the traditions Paul taught? Do you understand the irony of quoting the Bible as being a tradition?

Yes, we did, as a matter of fact, and they are in the Divine Liturgy of St. Basil. Of course, you seem to have forgotten that the Orthodox Christian Church and the Catholic Church were one and the same back then, and we were the ONLY Christians back then

Catholics always make much ado about formalizing the canon. What year was that? Is the Bible still passed down orally as tradition? But, after 2000 years you still form new "traditions", as in the Popes writings. Learn from Jesus' rebuke of the Pharisee's traditions. Not all "traditions" are God inspired. Today we have the Bible that we know is to be read as unquestionably true and will always be true. No where else is this found.

True, not all "traditions" are God inspired. Surely God never told the Reformers to sing an invitation hymn 18 times while a minister earnestly entreats the sinners to come forward and the Reformers never heard from God to change wine into Grape juice.
 
Upvote 0

Monk Brendan

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jul 21, 2016
4,636
2,875
72
Phoenix, Arizona
Visit site
✟294,400.00
Country
United States
Faith
Melkite Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Now answer me a question. What tradition not recorded in scripture is required for salvation? Another question the Catholic and Orthodox have failed to answer.

How about going to church frequently, and not just as Christmas and Easter? And BTW, this IS in the Bible. (Heb 10:24-25)) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
 
Upvote 0

W2L

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2016
20,081
10,988
USA
✟213,573.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

How would we provoke each other to love and good works, and exhort each other?
 
Upvote 0

EastCoastRemnant

I Must Decrease That He May Increase
Supporter
Dec 8, 2010
7,665
1,505
Nova Scotia
✟188,109.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Where in the Bible does it say, "age of accountability?"

Children are wicked, just like adults.
How sad for you that you look at the innocence of a child and see wickedness.... in our Judeo/Christian judicial system, even they recognize that children don't have the capacity to reason cause to effect and are not held responsible for actions before a certain age.

Why did Jesus say that we must become like little children to enter the Kingdom if they are no different than adults?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums