What would a Great America look like?

[razzelflabben]

I was sitting here reading some of the facebook comments about the inauguration and the country's future as a whole and it struck me that it appears that people have a different view of what a "Great America" would look like, so I thought I would ask here and see what you all thought a "Great America" would look like.

 

[Inkfingers]

Look up the word: wholesome.

If America is not that, it is by no measure "great".

 

[razzelflabben]

Look up the word: wholesome.

If America is not that, it is by no measure "great".

interesting

 

[SnowyMacie]

- An America where everyone has a livable wage, affordable housing, and affordable healthcare
- Our criminal justice system actually rehabilitates criminals to be productive members of society instead of having an embarrassingly high incarceration, prison violence, and recidivism rates.
- Public higher education is affordable by the average American without having to take out loans.
- The military is no longer the police force of the world.
- Drug addicts are treated by the system as if they have a health issue instead of a criminal issue
- Corporations cannot lobby to congress or donate to politicians or political campaigns in any form.
- The fossil fuels industries are all but dead and we lead the world in clean, renewable energy sources such as solar and/or wind power. Our automobile giants lead the world in production of electric-powered cars.

 

[JackRT]

- An America where everyone has a livable wage, affordable housing, and affordable healthcare
- Our criminal justice system actually rehabilitates criminals to be productive members of society instead of having an embarrassingly high incarceration, prison violence, and recidivism rates.
- Public higher education is affordable by the average American without having to take out loans.
- The military is no longer the police force of the world.
- Drug addicts are treated by the system as if they have a health issue instead of a criminal issue
- Corporations cannot lobby to congress or donate to politicians or political campaigns in any form.
- The fossil fuels industries are all but dead and we lead the world in clean, renewable energy sources such as solar and/or wind power. Our automobile giants lead the world in production of electric-powered cars.

That would be an excellent start.

 

[ViaCrucis]

A great America or a "Great America"?

As for the first, I'd agree with TX_Matt above: a better healthcare system, the ACA is a good start but it could be much better, not allowing the wealthiest to avoid paying their fair share and putting the majority of the tax burden on the lower class, better social welfare systems to help and protect the most vulnerable people in our society and to improve the condition of those living in abject poverty, get rid of ridiculous laws such as three strike rules which has resulted in the US having the highest number of incarcerated persons by capita, get rid of privately owned prisons--prison should not be a business, and end backdoor slavery while at that. Repeal Citizens United. Improve labor laws, and raise the minimum wage to be at least something that could at least approximate something resembling a living wage.

In general, the US should at least catch up to the rest of the developed world.

As for "Great America"? I suppose that's what "Trump's America" is supposed to be. Me, I don't want a "Great America".

I want America to be great. And things can't be great as long as we are a nation that tramples upon the neck of the disenfranchised, the poor, and the vulnerable.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

If people could accept loss on either side and then try to work together instead of eventually causing a civil war that will make america fall like Rome.

 

[SolomonVII]

It would look pretty much like it does now.
America is great, still. Those who believe in utopias are the ones given to apologizing for everything that America is not.

 

[ViaCrucis]

If people could accept loss on either side and then try to work together instead of eventually causing a civil war that will make america fall like Rome.

Well it's a little late, the barbarians are well past the gates, Alaric was just sworn in as POTUS.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Uncle Tommy]

If people could accept loss on either side and then try to work together instead of eventually causing a civil war that will make america fall like Rome.

Work together for what though? Anything President Trump proposes that a Christian man can morally accept I'll be happy to help him with, but most of what I have read of his plans have very little a Christian man can assist with.

 

[razzelflabben]

Well it's a little late, the barbarians are well past the gates, Alaric was just sworn in as POTUS.

-CryptoLutheran

that doesn't really answer the question.

 

[SolomonVII]

Work together for what though? Anything President Trump proposes that a Christian man can morally accept I'll be happy to help him with, but most of what I have read of his plans have very little a Christian man can assist with.

Border Security?
A revitalization of the Rust Belt economy?
Trade parity between nations?

I am not saying that I agree or disagree with any one of these issues that Trump ran on, but I do not see them as morally unacceptable to Christians?
according to what Christian tenets are these unacceptable to you?

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Work together for what though? Anything President Trump proposes that a Christian man can morally accept I'll be happy to help him with, but most of what I have read of his plans have very little a Christian man can assist with.

I mean more along the lines of hes president now and we still have to accept hes president. Complaining about him won't magically make him not president. Well unless he does something terrible and gets impeached.

Border Security?
A revitalization of the Rust Belt economy?
Trade parity between nations?

I am not saying that I agree or disagree with any one of these issues that Trump ran on, but I do not see them as morally unacceptable to Christians?
according to what Christian tenets are these unacceptable to you?

This is true. I don't see much that I find morally unacceptable as a christian.

 

[razzelflabben]

personally, I agree with the first response that of wholesomeness, I would add to that both truthfulness (which kind of goes together but truth is a huge problem in our world so I separate them) and liberty. IOW's less government telling us what to do so that we are restricted and have our hands tied by the law instead of a law that allows us to grow and thrive as we should be doing.

As to the presidential debate this is turning into, I am not as the OPer interested at this time in who you think can and cannot make it happen, only what a great america would look like to you. The presidential debate is reserved for another discussion all together.

 

[SolomonVII]

I think that one of the reasons that Trump's message of "lets make America great again" found resonance is that in some regions, people are having serious problems. "These jobs are going boys and they ain't coming back to" Bruce Springsteen' hometowns describes a reality for a sizable number of Americans.
There are many people and places in America that are doing well enough. Then there are people and places in America that are not doing well enough, but they have got the ear of the Democratic party.
Then there are those people who are doing well enough, and are written off as having 'white privilege' by those on the left, and told to 'pull themselves up by the bootstraps' by those of us on the right.
These are the losers of the sexual revolution and the drugs and sex and rock and roll libertine culture that has become so dominant in popular culture rhetoric.
Those with the resources have been able to survive their libertine youths and move on to the more conservative values of family and hard work, and all the things that have made America great. They pay lip service to the dominant libertine culture, and then drive back from their office towers in the city to their gated communities and wife and kids and live out the American dream that conservatives advocate.
But those without the resources have been laid low by that libertine culture, and the death of industry in their regions.
America is not great for them.

 

[Aryeh]

I was sitting here reading some of the facebook comments about the inauguration and the country's future as a whole and it struck me that it appears that people have a different view of what a "Great America" would look like, so I thought I would ask here and see what you all thought a "Great America" would look like.

No one knows what greatness is because no one is great.

Moreover, humans are often infatuated by characters whom they see as great, and emulate sets of ideals, and even behaviors of the person(s).

America being great has nothing to do with greatness; it has to do with the idea of what "normalcy and purity of refinement" means for the country.

And, over history that has meant many, many things. Modern "greatness" will always be determined by the "winners" as everything is.

America is nowhere near great, it never was, and it never will be. Why? Because "greatness" purported by imperfect, unrefined creatures is to scream nothing but pride. That is what greatness is to humans - a sense of pride.

Now, let us count the number of "pride and power" movements over America''s history.




Please. America is a country where racists believe they are helping, criminals are rewarded with cable, and meals and free health care.

America is a place where people KNOW politicians lie, yet do nothing about it and even vote for some of them.

America is a place where people are scared of minorities so much that they cross the street in fear - yet the same people will try to adopt, pet and play with vicious wild animals (now, what does that say about what is thought of about minorities.)

America is a country that exchanges progressive and nuanced, albeit challenging thought for antiquated status quo.

America is a nation that will war with poor countries just to make a political and sociologic point.

America is a country that OFTEN experiments on its own people; American people don't seem to care about this - or they ignore it in exchange for a happier illusion.

America is a place whose citizens will fight tooth and nail to stay enslaved by a beast system if it means they retain their securities.

America is a place where the people are fine with a nation that leverages their citizen''s livelihoods for the sake of printing money.

America is a place that will publicly shame whistleblowers, then 20 years later praise the person for being so "brave."

America will never be great. No country is great. But, America has a problem of ignoring rainbow colored elephants in its proverbial room. Every problem America has is either people whining too much, or just downright wrong and unwarranted.


The way to make America great "again" is to give it back to the natives, reverse "Manifest Destiny," and/or actually acknowledge the abysmal atrocities committed and continuously committed. (The third option is the absolute easiest, yet PRIDE won't allow it to come about.)

Otherwise, America will stay great in the eyes of Americans, but degenerate to the rest of the world. I am sure many of the same prideful Americans don't care either way, as it seems to be a paradigm in thought that America exists in a high hill - with capillary connections to the other/lesser countries of the world.

Almost like a Queen who had not been widowed.

 

[razzelflabben]

I think that one of the reasons that Trump's message of "lets make America great again" found resonance is that in some regions, people are having serious problems. "These jobs are going boys and they ain't coming back to" Bruce Springsteen' hometowns describes a reality for a sizable number of Americans.
There are many people and places in America that are doing well enough. Then there are people and places in America that are not doing well enough, but they have got the ear of the Democratic party.
Then there are those people who are doing well enough, and are written off as having 'white privilege' by those on the left, and told to 'pull themselves up by the bootstraps' by those of us on the right.
These are the losers of the sexual revolution and the drugs and sex and rock and roll libertine culture that has become so dominant in popular culture rhetoric.
Those with the resources have been able to survive their libertine youths and move on to the more conservative values of family and hard work, and all the things that have made America great. They pay lip service to the dominant libertine culture, and then drive back from their office towers in the city to their gated communities and wife and kids and live out the American dream that conservatives advocate.
But those without the resources have been laid low by that libertine culture, and the death of industry in their regions.
America is not great for them.

so in your opinion, what would a great America look like?

 

[razzelflabben]

No one knows what greatness is because no one is great.

Moreover, humans are often infatuated by characters whom they see as great, and emulate sets of ideals, and even behaviors of the person(s).

America being great has nothing to do with greatness; it has to do with the idea of what "normalcy and purity of refinement" means for the country.

And, over history that has meant many, many things. Modern "greatness" will always be determined by the "winners" as everything is.

America is nowhere near great, it never was, and it never will be. Why? Because "greatness" purported by imperfect, unrefined creatures is to scream nothing but pride. That is what greatness is to humans - a sense of pride.

Now, let us count the number of "pride and power" movements over America''s history.




Please. America is a country where racists believe they are helping, criminals are rewarded with cable, and meals and free health care.

America is a place where people KNOW politicians lie, yet do nothing about it and even vote for some of them.

America is a place where people are scared of minorities so much that they cross the street in fear - yet the same people will try to adopt, pet and play with vicious wild animals (now, what does that say about what is thought of about minorities.)

America is a country that exchanges progressive and nuanced, albeit challenging thought for antiquated status quo.

America is a nation that will war with poor countries just to make a political and sociologic point.

America is a country that OFTEN experiments on its own people; American people don't seem to care about this - or they ignore it in exchange for a happier illusion.

America is a place whose citizens will fight tooth and nail to stay enslaved by a beast system if it means they retain their securities.

America is a place where the people are fine with a nation that leverages their citizen''s livelihoods for the sake of printing money.

America is a place that will publicly shame whistleblowers, then 20 years later praise the person for being so "brave."

America will never be great. No country is great. But, America has a problem of ignoring rainbow colored elephants in its proverbial room. Every problem America has is either people whining too much, or just downright wrong and unwarranted.


The way to make America great "again" is to give it back to the natives, reverse "Manifest Destiny," and/or actually acknowledge the abysmal atrocities committed and continuously committed. (The third option is the absolute easiest, yet PRIDE won't allow it to come about.)

Otherwise, America will stay great in the eyes of Americans, but degenerate to the rest of the world. I am sure many of the same prideful Americans don't care either way, as it seems to be a paradigm in thought that America exists in a high hill - with capillary connections to the other/lesser countries of the world.

Almost like a Queen who had not been widowed.

so your idea of a great America doesn't exist...interesting.

 

[SolomonVII]

so in your opinion, what would a great America look like?

I am pretty sure I already answered that in Post 8 or so.
A great America would look pretty much like it does now.
America already is great. Absolute poverty has been extinguished. The military has more than enough resources and power to protect Americans globally. The values of freedom and civil society are well established. Wealth and opportunity still exist and the American dream is possible for virtually anyone with the will and the ability to strive for unlimited success.

Greatness is not dependent on somebodies utopian vision for America being achieved. Utopian socialism has never been a measure of greatness. And more than enough Americans have descended into acerbic cynicism that greatness will be always out of reach for them. I don't know how a politician's rhetoric will change that, but Trump has proven me and virtually everybody else wrong on everything else, so I hope he continues to prove me wrong at that particular point. I hope that he does have the ladder which will enable more Americans to climb into positions of greatness for themselves.

The fact remains that even if many Americans are not so great, that does not make America any less great, as determined by almost any objective and factual measure of what a countries greatness might look like.

 

[Aryeh]

so your idea of a great America doesn't exist...interesting.

Kingdoms of antiquity called and named their kingdoms "great," or some other similar positive modifier, because they had ego rivaling the gods (and, some were/claimed to be.) It is a modifier representing pride.

What is interesting is that God never says He is "proud" of anything or anyone - not even Christ. He says He is most pleased, but there isn't an implication of pride. That is because pride implies arrogance. Arrogance implies ego and self-importance. Ego and self-importance is idolatery.

This is why there is, and always will be war, poverty, racism, destruction, slavery, debauchery, etc. Countries are trying to be "great," instead of existing with longevity. Those "great" nations of yesterday fell under the weight of the folly of their ego and distorted superego.

People don't even know how to exist; we destroy each other daily. Yet we are claiming to be able to qualify ourselves (good, bad, great or ugly,) and the invisible boundaries for which we nationally identify. It is almost an insanity of the psyche.