What will Trump mean for religious freedom?

[ken777]

As Barronelle Stutzman goes before the Washington Supreme Court on Tuesday 15th November, I wonder if Donald Trump will be willing or able to prevent any more of these prosecutions of people who are not prepared to violate their deeply held religious beliefs.

He has already stated that same sex marriage is a settled issue so presumably that will not change. However, it could be possible to remove the threat hanging over the heads of people of faith who are engaged in businesses that provide services used for weddings.

It seems Trump will support the rights of religious schools to not employ openly homosexual teachers without any cut in funding.

Keep Barronelle in your prayers as she faces this trial.

 

[djnoz]

oops

 

[djnoz]

Such blatent discrimination against homosexuals is completely unacceptable and would lead to bullying of gay pupils. Schools that promote bigotry should feel the full force of the law.

 

[Open Heart]

Trump will stop the blatant bias against Christians in this country, but he will simply replace it with persecution of Muslims. This is not religious freedom.

 

[ken777]

He plans to persecute all Muslims, making them carry a special ID card (how is that different from the Jewish star in Nazi Germany?).

It's the Trump campaign that has me convinced he is a fascist and a narcissist.

Trump was suggesting a range of strategies that could be considered. We need to keep an eye on what Trump's policies actually state.

Closer surveillance to determine the means of radicalization seems warranted in the light of increasing terrorist attacks around the world.

At no time has Trump indicated that he is interested in curtailing the free practice of peaceful Islam in the US.

A Snopes Fact Check has a good article on the question of ID which has been inflated by the media.

 

[SilverBear]

That attitude makes me very glad that God ordained there should be a Republican president at this time in history.

You support the bullying of school children?

 

[ken777]

You support the bullying of school children?

Religious schools should have the right to teach traditional Christian beliefs and employ only those teachers who support the beliefs of the school. A school that maintains a Christian ethos will be opposed to bullying of any kind.

Threatening Christian schools with prosecution or withdrawal of funds unless they comply with ungodly demands is the very worst kind of bullying.

 

[SilverBear]

Religious schools should have the right to teach traditional Christian beliefs and employ only those teachers who support the beliefs of the school.

And if that religious school maintains the belief in the innate superiority of Caucasians should they have the right to refuse to hire people of African descent?

A school that maintains a Christian ethos will be opposed to bullying of any kind.

Would that opposition not include discriminatory hiring practices?

I believe this is the point djnoz was trying to make: Engaging in discrimination is bullying and when a school does discriminate it sends the message that it is OK to harass, assault and torment members of that minority. Actions always speak louder than words.

Threatening Christian schools with prosecution or withdrawal of funds unless they comply with ungodly demands is the very worst kind of bullying.

What funding?

 

[ken777]

And if that religious school maintains the belief in the innate superiority of Caucasians should they have the right to refuse to hire people of African descent?

You are confusing what a person is with what a person does. Practising or condoning sinful behavior is what many Christian schools reject.

I believe this is the point djnoz was trying to make: Engaging in discrimination is bullying and when a school does discriminate it sends the message that it is OK to harass, assault and torment members of that minority. Actions always speak louder than words.

A selection process based on compatibility with the school ethos is not "discrimination".

The Christian message is that you do not harass, assault or torment anyone for any purpose. Bullying is less likely in a religious school that actively teaches & encourages Christian love.

What funding?

The voucher system for one.

 

[joshua 1 9]

You support the bullying of school children?

Logical Fallacy: A "loaded question", like a loaded gun, is a dangerous thing. A loaded question is a question with a false or questionable presupposition, and it is "loaded" with that presumption. The question "Have you stopped beating your wife?" presupposes that you have beaten your wife prior to its asking, as well as that you have a wife. If you are unmarried, or have never beaten your wife, then the question is loaded.

 

[joshua 1 9]

He plans to persecute all Muslims, making them carry a special ID card (how is that different from the Jewish star in Nazi Germany?).

This is simply not true. People that abide in the truth do their best to verify what they are saying. The issue has NOTHING to do with Muslims or religion. The issue has to do with Sharia law. Under Sharia law it is legal for 9 year old girls to be turned into sex slaves. Under Sharia law it is legal to kill LGBT people. We need to make sure that people who come to America support Constitutional law, not Sharia law. We do not need acts of terrorism here in America or anywhere in the world.

Quran (2:282) - Establishes that a woman's testimony is worth only half that of a man's in court (there is no "he said/she said" gridlock in Islam). The result is a women must bring four witnesses to testify against a man.

 

[CrystalDragon]

You are confusing what a person is with what a person does. Practising or condoning sinful behavior is what many Christian schools reject.

As a note, homosexual behavior may be considered sinful, but homosexual attraction is not. It's a function of the brain that they can't control any more than you can pick a random person on the street and try to force yourself to be attracted to them. Can't do that. It's biology.

 

[SilverBear]

You are confusing what a person is with what a person does. Practising or condoning sinful behavior is what many Christian schools reject.

Nonsense. Being gay/lesbian is a state of being. One can be gay and be a virgin at the same time.

That aside - I asked you about a religious school maintains the belief in the innate superiority of Caucasians. I didn't ask if you agreed with that belief or if you liked that belief.

You said that religious schools had a right to teach specific doctrine and to refuse to hire employees based on that doctrine. So again what about a religious school maintains the belief in the innate superiority of Caucasians should they have the right to refuse to hire people of African descent?

A selection process based on compatibility with the school ethos is not "discrimination".

again back to my question.

The Christian message is that you do not harass, assault or torment anyone for any purpose. Bullying is less likely in a religious school that actively teaches & encourages Christian love.

Unless you happen to be gay.

The voucher system for one.

Most states with a school voucher system have what is referred to as a Blaine amendment restricting or prohibiting public funding of religious schools.

 

[SilverBear]

Logical Fallacy: A "loaded question", like a loaded gun, is a dangerous thing. A loaded question is a question with a false or questionable presupposition, and it is "loaded" with that presumption. The question "Have you stopped beating your wife?" presupposes that you have beaten your wife prior to its asking, as well as that you have a wife. If you are unmarried, or have never beaten your wife, then the question is loaded.

Returning to the post I commented on:

That attitude makes me very glad that God ordained there should be a Republican president at this time in history.

From the conversation there is really only two possibilities for what this offending "attitude" concerns: Either it is the rejection of discrimination or it is the rejection of bullying.

A loaded question is a question without any context, ken777 set the context so my clarifying question was not a loaded one.

 

[tulc]

(snip)
Threatening Christian schools with prosecution or withdrawal of funds (snip)

I'm curious do you support government funding for Muslim schools as well? I'm asking because you mentioned "Threatening Christian schools with prosecution or withdrawal of funds" and I'm curious is only certain religions should be supported.
tulc(likes knowing things)

 

[JackRT]

That attitude makes me very glad that God ordained there should be a Republican president at this time in history.

God ordained? I thought that divine right of kings was no longer a Christian belief? Or was King George III God ordained and the USA was in rebellion against divine will.

No God did not ordain a Republican win.

 

[JackRT]

Quran (2:282) - Establishes that a woman's testimony is worth only half that of a man's in court (there is no "he said/she said" gridlock in Islam). The result is a women must bring four witnesses to testify against a man.

This sounds very similar to biblical law with regard to women.

 

[Open Heart]

This is simply not true. People that abide in the truth do their best to verify what they are saying. The issue has NOTHING to do with Muslims or religion. The issue has to do with Sharia law. Under Sharia law it is legal for 9 year old girls to be turned into sex slaves. Under Sharia law it is legal to kill LGBT people. We need to make sure that people who come to America support Constitutional law, not Sharia law. We do not need acts of terrorism here in America or anywhere in the world.

Quran (2:282) - Establishes that a woman's testimony is worth only half that of a man's in court (there is no "he said/she said" gridlock in Islam). The result is a women must bring four witnesses to testify against a man.

http://people.com/celebrity/donald-trump-says-hed-support-tracking-us-muslims/

Presidential hopeful Donald Trump said he supports creating a mandatory database to track Muslims in the United States.

“I would certainly implement that. Absolutely,” Trump, 69, told NBC News between campaign events on Thursday in Newton, Iowa.

“There should be a lot of systems, beyond databases. We should have a lot of systems.”

When asked by the reporter whether Muslims would be legally obligated to register in the database, the business mogul responded: “They have to be. They have to be. ”

He said that the country’s Muslims would register for the database at “different places,” adding, “It’s all about management.”

 

[ken777]

Nonsense. Being gay/lesbian is a state of being. One can be gay and be a virgin at the same time.

That is why I emphasized behaviour which includes practicing as well as supporting same sex behaviour.

That aside - I asked you about a religious school maintains the belief in the innate superiority of Caucasians. I didn't ask if you agreed with that belief or if you liked that belief.

What you are asking is whether a private school should have the right to teach beliefs that are repugnant to you and me and society in general. Yes they should.

You said that religious schools had a right to teach specific doctrine and to refuse to hire employees based on that doctrine. So again what about a religious school maintains the belief in the innate superiority of Caucasians should they have the right to refuse to hire people of African descent?

You continue to confuse what a person is with what a person does. Schools should not discriminate on the basis of what a person is, but should certainly be able to discriminate on the basis of what a person says and/or does.

Most states with a school voucher system have what is referred to as a Blaine amendment restricting or prohibiting public funding of religious schools.

https://www.au.org/issues/school-vouchers-government-subsidies-religious-schools

President-elect Trump's policy is to add an additional federal investment of $20 billion towards school choice.

 

[ken777]

I'm curious do you support government funding for Muslim schools as well?

That's the way it is done here in Australia.