What will Modern Worship V2.0 look like?

[Bass4Jesus]

When I began playing in worship bands almost eight years ago, I thought the supply of competent volunteer musicians and singers was almost nonexistent and things couldn't possibly get worse, but I wasn't prepared for what it's like now. It's ten times worse! I can't believe what churches are putting in front of congregations nowadays. It's shocking. Some of them couldn't pass an audition for a garage band of fifteen-year-olds whose parents just bought them their first instruments. In this geographical area, yes, it really is that bad.

Churches don't want to pay for semi-pros, period. They fail to see the long-term net benefit to the bottom line, in terms of not only attendance but also souls won for the Kingdom. I don't see that being re-thought any time soon.

Given this situation, I want to hear people's opinions on where modern worship leading is headed. Crummy worship bands are driving people away from church. The reality is that people simply will not put up with it week after week. I've witnessed it personally, over and over and over again.

The current model is not viable in the long term. Something's got to take its place. I've got a couple thoughts of my own, but I'd like to hear what other people have to say.

 

[Anthony2019]

Today's modern contemporary worship songs
- often very repetitive
- nearly always use guitars and drums, as if it is impossible to worship without them
- overly synchopated and awkward to sing, especially as a congregation
- frequently overemotional, lacking in propriety and dignity. We are worshipping the creator of the universe, not just singing a love song to our best friend.
- often lacking in theology and scripture
- emphasis on praise, but little attention to repentance, service and holy living
- adverse to silence, with every available space taken up with noise. Even the prayers are accompanied by the strumming of a guitar or the tinkling of a piano.
- songs that borrow and adapt lyrics from older hymns
Have I missed anything?
I remember worship songs that came out a couple of decades ago, no-one is singing them now. They have gone out of fashion. But we are still singing hymns that have been around for centuries.

 

[splish- splash]

When I began playing in worship bands almost eight years ago, I thought the supply of competent volunteer musicians and singers was almost nonexistent and things couldn't possibly get worse, but I wasn't prepared for what it's like now. It's ten times worse! I can't believe what churches are putting in front of congregations nowadays. It's shocking. Some of them couldn't pass an audition for a garage band of fifteen-year-olds whose parents just bought them their first instruments. In this geographical area, yes, it really is that bad.

Churches don't want to pay for semi-pros, period. They fail to see the long-term net benefit to the bottom line, in terms of not only attendance but also souls won for the Kingdom. I don't see that being re-thought any time soon.

Given this situation, I want to hear people's opinions on where modern worship leading is headed. Crummy worship bands are driving people away from church. The reality is that people simply will not put up with it week after week. I've witnessed it personally, over and over and over again.

The current model is not viable in the long term. Something's got to take its place. I've got a couple thoughts of my own, but I'd like to hear what other people have to say.

I think it's the characters of some of the band members more than anything else, that leave a lot to be desired to be honest. When a worship leader develops a sense of entitlement, it causes many problems. For instance, I used to attend a certain Church where the worship leader was some horrible woman, who treated her band mates like rubbish, no one was allowed to share their idea or opinion in relation to worship songs/music & they seemed to have a certain class of people that they would allow into their band.

Funny how often she spoke about the Greatness of God yet she never seemed to walk in line with His will. I believe there were more suitable and humble people at the time, who could have changed things for the better had they been allowed to join the band. Our hearts need to be right with God 1st & foremost like as in having a true spirit of worship.

 

[topher694]

Churches don't want to pay for semi-pros, period. They fail to see the long-term net benefit to the bottom line, in terms of not only attendance but also souls won for the Kingdom. I don't see that being re-thought any time soon.

Given this situation, I want to hear people's opinions on where modern worship leading is headed. Crummy worship bands are driving people away from church. The reality is that people simply will not put up with it week after week. I've witnessed it personally, over and over and over again.

The current model is not viable in the long term. Something's got to take its place. I've got a couple thoughts of my own, but I'd like to hear what other people have to say.

Absolutely not. Paying for musicians? I guess small churches are just out of luck. I've seen "semi pro" musicians on the worship platform. Far to often it is about them, their performance, their show. Worship is about God, period. Paying musicians who are skilled, but do not understand worship to put on a show will cause far more harm long term than putting less skilled people up there that love the Lord and know how to truly worship. I am far more concerned with putting people on the platform who demonstrate Godly character, integrity and faithfulness. Like it or not, people on the platform have a greater spotlight on them, hence a greater responsibility. Others see them and their behavior. Plus, given time and opportunity, musical skills will grow.

 

[PloverWing]

Given this situation, I want to hear people's opinions on where modern worship leading is headed. Crummy worship bands are driving people away from church. The reality is that people simply will not put up with it week after week. I've witnessed it personally, over and over and over again.

The current model is not viable in the long term. Something's got to take its place. I've got a couple thoughts of my own, but I'd like to hear what other people have to say.

My church uses a different style of worship from yours, so I don't know how well my thoughts fit your situation, but here are some thoughts anyway.

Worship is the work of the people who are gathered; instrumentalists serve only to support the congregation as they make a musical offering to God. So, if the instrumentalists are getting in the way of worship, could you make do with fewer instrumentalists? Maybe just a guitar or keyboard to keep everybody on pitch, or even singing a capella?

Also: I couldn't tell if you're looking to incorporate a wider selection of musical styles into your worship, or if you're just unhappy about the local instrumental talent. Which is it? Do you wish you had different kinds of music to sing, or do you just wish your musicians played their instruments better?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Modern Church formulas are not working.
The voice of the body of Christ is muted in the land.
Folks need Love not performance.
Genuine gifts should never be paid for, but the genuinely gifted should be supported with Love.
While you cannot put a price on one soul, the budgets around sustaining modern church do not translate into conversion growth.
Seekers caught up in the razzmatazz often grasp a hype christianity and miss the real Jesus.
We need a very big rethink about what goes down as 'church'
And God is looking down and saying "Can I have your attention for a moment" but he cant be heard for the noise.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I think it's the characters of some of the band members more than anything else, that leave a lot to be desired to be honest. When a worship leader develops a sense of entitlement, it causes many problems. For instance, I used to attend a certain Church where the worship leader was some horrible woman, who treated her band mates like rubbish, no one was allowed to share their idea or opinion in relation to worship songs/music & they seemed to have a certain class of people that they would allow into their band.

Funny how often she spoke about the Greatness of God yet she never seemed to walk in line with His will. I believe there were more suitable and humble people at the time, who could have changed things for the better had they been allowed to join the band. Our hearts need to be right with God 1st & foremost like as in having a true spirit of worship.

I've seen this same kind of ongoing behavior among 'worship' leaders, and more than once. In fact, now that I think about it, I can think of 4 worship leaders in my past history at various churches over the decades who were not only pushy, overly emotional, insistent, and a bit on the perfectionistic side of things. One of them in fact was supposedly 'pentecostal' [leading in a non-pentecostal church, even] and pushed people to "sing it like they mean it!" (...his words in fact, laced and dripping week after week with insinuated guilt tripping for failure by the congregation to just sing forcefully). What's ironic is that later it was found out that this worship leader had been officially diagnosed as having N.P.D. [i.e. Narcissistic Personality Disorder] Also, he wrecked his marriage shortly thereafter. So, go figure!

When we look at the New Testament, what place is given to congregational music/singing within the Church? I'm pretty sure it isn't something flamboyant and led by flashy, singing minstrels (not that I don't like flashy, singing minstrels. I do! I just think it's best when we all feel that our music ministers are leading worship and singing with passion and love for both God and His people).

 

[Bass4Jesus]

First let me thank everyone who's replied so far.

The style of music is not the issue here. I'm talking about a style that's proven to draw hundreds, thousands of people to a church and keep them coming back, year after year, as long as the quality is there.

Sadly, I must agree with the view that the characters of some of the people who've been given authority can be huge negatives. I've seen it in every church I've ever played at. However true this problem may be, "it is what it is," as the saying goes, and I don't see it getting fixed any time soon. And there are several reasons for that. But I'm trying to focus on what should replace, not improve, the entire (broken) model of contemporary worship.

The objection to semi-pro musicians being front and center: Same deal. That debate's never going to end. Again, my goal is to explore what replaces what we have today, whether what we have today are rank beginners or musicians who play for a living exclusively or anything in between. We have terrible music, and it's driving people away. No one's listening to the obvious solutions and acting on them. And so, how do we forklift this cancer out of the church entirely, and bring in something musical that's super high quality? What form does that new "solution" take?

Someone asked whether I'm after more styles or fixing bad talent. It's the latter. A young crowd that wants CCM and wants it done well, give them CCM done well. An older crowd that wants hymns and wants them done well, give them hymns done well. Whatever gets them in the door and keeps them coming back. Whatever that is, though, it's got to be done with excellence above all else. The talent around here is totally incapable of pulling that off.

Again, thank you, everyone, so far. Now... suggest anything, no matter how wild. (By "wild" I mean things that have never, or have only rarely, been attempted.) But please, please keep in mind that different congregations/generations have different "tie points" when it comes to worship styles -- to use a towing/recovery term. What I'm trying to answer must rise above all that. I'm trying to zero in on methodology, not musical styles. What new, and probably as-yet-untried, mechanism could we use to deliver an extremely high-quality product that will thrill and engage and energize people, and make them wish it were already next Sunday as they're walking out the church doors at 12:30 in the afternoon?

 

[PloverWing]

What new, and probably as-yet-untried, mechanism could we use to deliver an extremely high-quality product that will thrill and engage and energize people, and make them wish it were already next Sunday as they're walking out the church doors at 12:30 in the afternoon?

How large is your congregation, and does it include music teachers, or do you have music teachers outside the congregation who could be hired temporarily? What I'm thinking is that you might raise up musicians from within your congregation. Take people with interest and a good-enough aptitude, but insufficient skill at the moment, and give them a couple of years of lessons on their instrument or voice. Maybe in a few years, you'll develop a larger pool of more skilled musicians.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

First let me thank everyone who's replied so far.

The style of music is not the issue here. I'm talking about a style that's proven to draw hundreds, thousands of people to a church and keep them coming back, year after year, as long as the quality is there.

Sadly, I must agree with the view that the characters of some of the people who've been given authority can be huge negatives. I've seen it in every church I've ever played at. However true this problem may be, "it is what it is," as the saying goes, and I don't see it getting fixed any time soon. And there are several reasons for that. But I'm trying to focus on what should replace, not improve, the entire (broken) model of contemporary worship.

The objection to semi-pro musicians being front and center: Same deal. That debate's never going to end. Again, my goal is to explore what replaces what we have today, whether what we have today are rank beginners or musicians who play for a living exclusively or anything in between. We have terrible music, and it's driving people away. No one's listening to the obvious solutions and acting on them. And so, how do we forklift this cancer out of the church entirely, and bring in something musical that's super high quality? What form does that new "solution" take?

Someone asked whether I'm after more styles or fixing bad talent. It's the latter. A young crowd that wants CCM and wants it done well, give them CCM done well. An older crowd that wants hymns and wants them done well, give them hymns done well. Whatever gets them in the door and keeps them coming back. Whatever that is, though, it's got to be done with excellence above all else. The talent around here is totally incapable of pulling that off.

Again, thank you, everyone, so far. Now... suggest anything, no matter how wild. (By "wild" I mean things that have never, or have only rarely, been attempted.) But please, please keep in mind that different congregations/generations have different "tie points" when it comes to worship styles -- to use a towing/recovery term. What I'm trying to answer must rise above all that. I'm trying to zero in on methodology, not musical styles. What new, and probably as-yet-untried, mechanism could we use to deliver an extremely high-quality product that will thrill and engage and energize people, and make them wish it were already next Sunday as they're walking out the church doors at 12:30 in the afternoon?

I don't know. While I don't mind standing and singing various songs of various styles, my wife is of the mindset, being that she's originally from a more Orthodox background, that the way we all require lots of singing and standing is, for her, more than she wants from a service or wants to be prodded to have to 'accept.' So, I don't know. I don't find the quality of the music to be a problem, mainly because if I want to listen to professional quality music (like, say, Stryper), I'll just do so and expect to do so AFTER church. In fact, I kind of go into any church expecting people to do what we common people can do.

I mean, think of it. Peter and Mary and other disciples sat around singing some hymns. Do we think that Mary had some glorious, fantastically beautiful soprano voice, dynamic not only in range but in delivery and style? I highly doubt it. And what should keep people coming back? More ... "Bread" for the masses?

 

[Bass4Jesus]

I'm not glued to a specific church. I tried that once and it turned out to be, shall we say, unsatisfactory. But I get what you're saying. Lessons first, then once they're at a sufficient level, only then let them get up there and put what they've learned to work for the Kingdom. But not before they've reached that level. Right?

Along with that, I'd like to see a disinterested party -- a music pro -- be the one to give the green light. I've seen too many people allowed on stage when they barely have enough skills not to be thrown out of a dive bar on Saturday night with the rest of the band. The wrong people are conducting the auditions; they're not qualified. The metrics are all wrong, and the pass/fail criteria are set way too low.

But I do like the general idea. It would need formal buy-in all the way to the top. I wouldn't even mind seeing signatures on iron-clad contracts with legal implications. In fact I believe that would be required for the idea to work. (Why does the term "Good luck with that" come to mind? Ugh...)

 

[Bass4Jesus]

I don't know. While I don't mind standing and singing various songs of various styles, my wife is of the mindset, being that she's originally from a more Orthodox background, that the way we all require lots of singing and standing is, for her, more than she wants from a service or wants to be prodded to have to 'accept.' So, I don't know. I don't find the quality of the music to be a problem, mainly because if I want to listen to professional quality music (like, say, Stryper), I'll just do so and expect to do so AFTER church. In fact, I kind of go into any church expecting people to do what we common people can do.

I mean, think of it. Peter and Mary and other disciples sat around singing some hymns. Do we think that Mary had some glorious, fantastically beautiful soprano voice, dynamic not only in range but in delivery and style? I highly doubt it. And what should keep people coming back? More bread?

Your points are well-taken. But you're speaking for yourself. Not that that's bad, it just doesn't reflect the general population. The fact remains that churches around here can't retain members, and for the most part it's because the music... well... stinks, to the point where I'd almost deem it criminal. I've seen a lot of praise bands, done a lot of asking, and I've heard a lot of answers. They were mostly predictable, involving gnashing of teeth while a band commits violent crimes against the latest Elevation Worship release, for instance.

I can almost picture someone mumbling, as the travesty lurches ahead and gets shakily under way, "Somewhere, an electric chair is waiting." (I stole that from Laurel and Hardy's "Dirty Work.")

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Your points are well-taken. But you're speaking for yourself. Not that that's bad, it just doesn't reflect the general population. The fact remains that churches around here can't retain members, and for the most part it's because the music... well... stinks, to the point where I'd almost deem it criminal. I've seen a lot of praise bands, done a lot of asking, and I've heard a lot of answers. They were mostly predictable, involving gnashing of teeth while a band commits violent crimes against the latest Elevation Worship release, for instance.

I can almost picture someone mumbling, as the travesty lurches ahead and gets shakily under way, "Somewhere, an electric chair is waiting." (I stole that from Laurel and Hardy's "Dirty Work.")

To substantiate that terrible music is really one of the more serious faults of the church, you'd probably need to present several substantial articles or reports showing various high-level surveys that haven been done have have presented evidence that this is conclusively the case. From my experiences, as limited as they may be in comparison to yours, it's usually the non-musical issues that have driven people away from various churches, issues usually pertaining to a variety of spiritual abuses of power or trust.

 

[Carl Emerson]

First let me thank everyone who's replied so far.

The style of music is not the issue here. I'm talking about a style that's proven to draw hundreds, thousands of people to a church and keep them coming back, year after year, as long as the quality is there.

Sadly, I must agree with the view that the characters of some of the people who've been given authority can be huge negatives. I've seen it in every church I've ever played at. However true this problem may be, "it is what it is," as the saying goes, and I don't see it getting fixed any time soon. And there are several reasons for that. But I'm trying to focus on what should replace, not improve, the entire (broken) model of contemporary worship.

The objection to semi-pro musicians being front and center: Same deal. That debate's never going to end. Again, my goal is to explore what replaces what we have today, whether what we have today are rank beginners or musicians who play for a living exclusively or anything in between. We have terrible music, and it's driving people away. No one's listening to the obvious solutions and acting on them. And so, how do we forklift this cancer out of the church entirely, and bring in something musical that's super high quality? What form does that new "solution" take?

Someone asked whether I'm after more styles or fixing bad talent. It's the latter. A young crowd that wants CCM and wants it done well, give them CCM done well. An older crowd that wants hymns and wants them done well, give them hymns done well. Whatever gets them in the door and keeps them coming back. Whatever that is, though, it's got to be done with excellence above all else. The talent around here is totally incapable of pulling that off.

Again, thank you, everyone, so far. Now... suggest anything, no matter how wild. (By "wild" I mean things that have never, or have only rarely, been attempted.) But please, please keep in mind that different congregations/generations have different "tie points" when it comes to worship styles -- to use a towing/recovery term. What I'm trying to answer must rise above all that. I'm trying to zero in on methodology, not musical styles. What new, and probably as-yet-untried, mechanism could we use to deliver an extremely high-quality product that will thrill and engage and energize people, and make them wish it were already next Sunday as they're walking out the church doors at 12:30 in the afternoon?

What keeps folks coming in the door is LOVE.

 

[topher694]

First let me thank everyone who's replied so far.

The style of music is not the issue here. I'm talking about a style that's proven to draw hundreds, thousands of people to a church and keep them coming back, year after year, as long as the quality is there.

Sadly, I must agree with the view that the characters of some of the people who've been given authority can be huge negatives. I've seen it in every church I've ever played at. However true this problem may be, "it is what it is," as the saying goes, and I don't see it getting fixed any time soon. And there are several reasons for that. But I'm trying to focus on what should replace, not improve, the entire (broken) model of contemporary worship.

The objection to semi-pro musicians being front and center: Same deal. That debate's never going to end. Again, my goal is to explore what replaces what we have today, whether what we have today are rank beginners or musicians who play for a living exclusively or anything in between. We have terrible music, and it's driving people away. No one's listening to the obvious solutions and acting on them. And so, how do we forklift this cancer out of the church entirely, and bring in something musical that's super high quality? What form does that new "solution" take?

Someone asked whether I'm after more styles or fixing bad talent. It's the latter. A young crowd that wants CCM and wants it done well, give them CCM done well. An older crowd that wants hymns and wants them done well, give them hymns done well. Whatever gets them in the door and keeps them coming back. Whatever that is, though, it's got to be done with excellence above all else. The talent around here is totally incapable of pulling that off.

Again, thank you, everyone, so far. Now... suggest anything, no matter how wild. (By "wild" I mean things that have never, or have only rarely, been attempted.) But please, please keep in mind that different congregations/generations have different "tie points" when it comes to worship styles -- to use a towing/recovery term. What I'm trying to answer must rise above all that. I'm trying to zero in on methodology, not musical styles. What new, and probably as-yet-untried, mechanism could we use to deliver an extremely high-quality product that will thrill and engage and energize people, and make them wish it were already next Sunday as they're walking out the church doors at 12:30 in the afternoon?

Replacement solution?
One word: multitracks

 

[Bass4Jesus]

To substantiate that terrible music is really one of the more serious faults of the church, you'd probably need to present several substantial articles or reports showing various high-level surveys that haven been done have have presented evidence that this is conclusively the case. From my experiences, as limited as they may be in comparison to yours, it's usually the non-musical issues that have driven people away from various churches, issues usually pertaining to a variety of spiritual abuses of power or trust.

No offense intended, but I don't need formal reports to prove something that is so obviously factual from personal experience. ("Steenking badches," etc.) Again, people are leaving many modern churches around here because of the crummy music. They simply can't take it, and I can't blame them. It's just not acceptable to put out that poor-quality a product for the Kingdom. However, I do strongly agree with you that non-musical problems do exist and can drive even more people away. To add to your list, I've heard some pretty wild biblical interpretations -- what my parents used to call "real doozies" -- and by people who ought to know better. Even by some top names everyone would recognize.

 

[Bass4Jesus]

Replacement solution?
One word: multitracks

Yep, used those regularly in the last church I played at. I remember one opener when everything but the drums, bass guitar, and acoustic guitar were in the backing track. We had musicians on stage for the other instruments, but they were muted. Came out fantastic. The problem arises when vocals are the issue, though. And typically it's vocals (especially harmonies) that make or break a song.

 

[topher694]

Yep, used those regularly in the last church I played at. I remember one opener when everything but the drums, bass guitar, and acoustic guitar were in the backing track. We had musicians on stage for the other instruments, but they were muted. Came out fantastic. The problem arises when vocals are the issue, though. And typically it's vocals (especially harmonies) that make or break a song.

Multitracks typically have bg vocals sometimes several. At a minimum all you need is one person who can carry a tune and lead. The rest gets filled in as you go. They are surprisingly versatile.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Church is for the faithful to gather and encourage and life one another up, teach about Christ and grow in discipleship.

It reaches the community with the Gospel message through outreach missions, helping the poor and the needy, first within, then without...

It provides community and family to believers, and a place to gather in worship of our Lord God and prayer to Him.

God is above all things, our Savior a Name above every name. For His presence is Holy, pure and undefiled, and where two or three are gathered in His Name, He is there in the midst of them.

It is a sober occasion as well as uplifting.

Church isn't a rock concert... save the music for home, the idol worship for the world. If it's money you want make a CD and sell it to the world, where your followers will be.

Jesus is about quality, not quantity. When people get that straight, perhaps we can begin saving souls, not lining pockets, and it's souls which is the concern of the Church. Not entertainment.

my preference is for acapella, but I don't mind an instrument.. but I really so prefer acapella when I'm in church. At home I will listen to music, if the mood strikes me.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

I want to hear people's opinions on where modern worship leading is headed.